Have to admit, at this point I am totally drinking the cool-aid on this one.Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen
Have to admit, at this point I am totally drinking the cool-aid on this one.
I don't understand the issue with the grass.
Arsenal, and Tottenham play on a hybrid pitch, Wembley is a hybrid pitch,
The Green bay packers use a field by the same company.
I think we're mistaking turf for the old junk that was in BMO originally, or that is in the Dome now.
If its good enough for Arsenal shouldn't it be fine for TFC?
The sightlines is a major concern. As has been mentioned, you have to figure in the buffer zone, also the first row of seats in football stadiums begins higher up from the field, hence the Argos having to tarp over the first 10 rows or so. Unless TFC goes with a retractable north east and west stand, seats will be further away. Of course, they'll keep the fieldside tables and claim there is no difference.
My other concern is when will this construction take place? MLS begins in March and ends in October. I don't think 3 months is enough time for the kinda of renovation they are talking about.
Whats the solution? A season in the Dome? A season in Hamilton?
Leiweke stated on TSN today that MLSE intends to go forth with plans to renovate BMO Field as a multipurpose facility without compromising the sightlines for TFC matches or the integrity of pitch. He also stated that MLSE is planning on financing the bulk of the cost of the project, which will include a roof.
Best line of the interview was "our fans got rained on a lot last season. Larry Tanenbaum attends a lot of TFC games, and Larry got rained on too."
Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 01-13-2014 at 07:27 PM.
My guess is its completed in phases over a couple years.
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Arsenal play on real grass, that is artificially reinforced. So hybrid, yes, but still essentially like playing on real grass.
Perhaps if the CFL ever came to BMO, that would be the solution to having a pitch that can withstand being torn up by giant football players 9-10 times a year. Of course, I've also read that Arsenal's type of pitch is pretty goddamned expensive.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
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I do have to admit, as much as TL comes off as a bit of a bombastic salesman at times, I really do like listening to his interviews. In all of the interviews I listened to today, he was surprisingly frank in his answers to pretty much any question.Leiweke stated on TSN today that MLSE intends to go forth with plans to renovate BMO Field as a multipurpose facility without compromising the sightlines for TFC matches or the integrity of pitch. He also stated that MLSE is planning on financing the bulk of the cost of the project, which will include a roof.
Best line of the interview was "our fans got rained on a lot last season. Larry Tanenbaum attends a lot of TFC games, and Larry got rained on too."
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Swansea also have this sort of pitch; apparently drains much better than your typical grass pitch.
I have my reservations on whether it would hold up against the strains of regular CFL games, never mind ground-sharing with us.
Put the Argos in an expanded and renovated Lamport. Leave BMO for real football.
The last plan I heard for Allan Lamport Stadium was to tear down the east side stands and expand the park area to accommodate the growing number of local condominium owners green space.
You want to talk about crazy - look at the Roughriders new home - estimated cost of $278 million... Great way to use the taxpayers money.
http://www.reginarevitalization.ca/stadium-project/
Tons of teams do. Man Utd, Man City, Real Madrid, Liverpool, Inter & Milan. It was used in the 2010 World Cup.
Well, it's used by the Packers, the Eagles and the Broncos, so if anyone is really interested in seeing how it stands up to American football that would be a good place to look. With a ground share though, hard to say.I have my reservations on whether it would hold up against the strains of regular CFL games, never mind ground-sharing with us.
I haven't followed the details too closely, but has he said the plan is to renovate for CFL so the Argos can move in? Or is the reno so that they can hold one off's like the Grey Cup to make a boatload of money?
We need a roof over all the stands to be the serious world class club TL is talking about us becoming. I don't think he is blowing smoke in that regard and I think he truly has that vision which is refreshing. In order to be financially viable and be a storied club, you need the stands full and You need the thousands of casuals to come to the matches and create the experience...day in and day out all season long. Even if we start winning, The shine of the first years is still off and Lieweke gets it. Thus the only way to fill the stadium is to win, AND make the game day experience better for the casuals. Winning with no roof still will not fill the stadium in the off months on a regular basis. Its simple...We play in Canada beside a lake. We need a roof over the stands and closed in corners.
I can't believe they're gonna put a roof on BMO. A tin can is still a tin can regardless wether the lid is on it or not.
I'd rather wait 10 years and get a whole new stadium.
Now with regards to the pitch, didn't the team always practice elsewhere even before the training facility was built because they wanted to minimize damage to it? If they were worried about half speed soccer drills how the hell can they expect to throw a couple football teams on there going full tilt and say it'll be fine?
Yeah I have to say with the money they are investing in the club they are setting themselves up for headaches with this new stadium. They should have a long term vision of a 40,000 seat soccer specific stadium with no expense spared to make it a world class facility. You can find enough other uses for the grounds where sharing a stadium with the Argos becomes pointless.
Anything that fits a CFL sized field is going to have very serious limitations.
I think its due to the fact that they practice multiple times a week, and if that is at BMO it does not give the ground staff the time they need during the week to keep the pitch in order (I beleive they need blocks of continuous time).
If the CFL comes in, you are likely looking at MLS one weekend, CFL the next. A game a week is a different pattern than continuous use through out the week.
It will be a 30,000 seats stadium with potential to increase above for 1 time events. Roof (covered seating) on the East and West side but not the end-zones allowing the expansion to occur in those two areas.
Last edited by billyfly; 01-14-2014 at 02:38 PM.
Original York U Stadium drawing for TFC & Argos that never happened: http://stadiumci.com/sci/projects/yo...rsity-stadium/
Aside from the roof, look familiar???
from Glaze: "I don't understand the issue with the grass.
Arsenal, and Tottenham play on a hybrid pitch, Wembley is a hybrid pitch,
The Green bay packers use a field by the same company.
I think we're mistaking turf for the old junk that was in BMO originally, or that is in the Dome now.
If its good enough for Arsenal shouldn't it be fine for TFC?"
The New Wembley pitch is very heavily criticized in the UK. I don't know the details of Arsenal and Tottenham, but the Wigan pitch was always criticized because of the impact of once a week rugby. I think the grass issue is serious. As I have said elsewhere, one solution is to have the Argos play in the dome after the end of September.
Yes I knew this but didn't know where to access the pics.Original York U Stadium drawing for TFC & Argos that never happened: http://stadiumci.com/sci/projects/yo...rsity-stadium/
Aside from the roof, look familiar???
The issue with the roof is the different wind conditions off the lake. That will be the biggest engineer stuff mixed with the code spacing issues with the food building and the City allowing to cut off the road to the south.
Is it feasible to lay down artificial turf on top of the grass pitch just for Argo games?
The road won't be a huge issue. It only exists because they tore down Exhibition Stadium - city can survive without it or a modified version.
Anyone hear the Leiweke interview on TSN Radio? Made it sound like MLSE is definitely willing to explore the Argos as BMO tenants because they want the city to agree a deal to improve BMO for the soccer team. A necessary evil if you will. That's how he spinned it.
BMO reno starts after 13 minutes: http://iphone.tsn.ca/tsnpodcasts/TSN...20Jan%2013.mp3
Last edited by Haddy; 01-14-2014 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Spelling
Toronto MIGHT bid on 2024 summer Olympic which means government fundings for a new stadium big enough to host Olympics. This could mean a new stadium for Toronto NFL team? If that's case, then it explains everything why MLSE is willing to "let" Argos move into BMO field in short-term. If NFL do come to Toronto for good, then Argos are done. So in 10 years time, we might not have to worry about Argos for good.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/olympics/rep...o-3-7-billion/
There's no way the NFL would let the Argos die if in the small chance they allowed an NFL franchise here
The way things are going for Argos now, they would be dead if they don't find a new home soon regardless if NFL comes to Toronto or not. I believe they got like 3 years left on their lease at Rogers Centre.
Apparently the NFL has told anyone from Toronto looking to bid on an NFL team that a condition of purchasing a team is caring for the Argos. Allegedly that's why MLSE is looking at buying the Argos in the first place. The NFL needs the CFL to exist in a viable way due to anti-trust laws. Every failed football league in the states has tried to sue the NFL, and the NFL has won every case by using the CFL as an example of a football league that can thrive. That's also why the NFL helped keep the CFL afloat when the CFL was in big trouble a while back*.
The olympics thing is a pipe dream, and either way it's an albatross that I hope we don't get.
Those drawings for a stadium are pretty dope. If the grass/turf thing could be worked out, and both one of the north/south stands and one of the east/west stands were able to move in to be pitchside for soccer, I'd be more than ok with it. But those are 2 big ifs.
* As an Argos fan though... an NFL team in Toronto would realistically relegate the Argos to less than an afterthought. They're already an afterthought. I think it'd be better to just fold the team and let the NFL team be called the Toronto Argonauts and absorb the history. It'd be pretty cool IMO. And if the NFL can survive and thrive without a team in LA, why couldn't the CFL survive and thrive without a team in Toronto?
So, let's just say sporting prosperity sits on our faces and all three of the Argos, Blue Jays and TFC make the post season at the same time. There's no way the Jays are letting the Argos into the dome to hack up their grass field that could do so much to enhance the appeal of the dome's core product. And soccer has to be consider the core product at BMO Field. So does MLSE let the Argos make a mess of TFC's playoff chances?
Because Tim Leiweke can smooth talk all he wants about preserving everything good at BMO while expanding and enhancing the place, but the post season is where the rubber meets the road. That's what the TFC fans he expresses so much concern for will be going out of their minds to cheer for. If he thinks TFC take a back seat to the Argos in that situation, that's where, ticket-price freezes be damned, the backlash would be permanent.
So, where would the ugly step-child that is the Argos be placed in such a situation? York U's track and field stadium? Lamport? No good answer. Yet the question has to have one because the Jays sure as fork aren't revamping their playing surface to play .500 ball. If BMO Field is getting seriously upgraded, look at how a good season might play out strictly from a soccer business perspective.
In the foreseeable future, TFC will play 17-18-19? regular season games, plus two Canadian championship games. Maybe a third in a few years? Win that title and here comes Concacaf Champions League play with - let's be optimistic and say we get through group stage for another round - at least four more games. Right now we're up to 24-25-26? games. Let's be as bullish as Big Tim and assume our good form brings a playoff berth. There's maybe two more games. 26-27-28.
And let's say our ambitious marketing deals with Spurs and Roma create opportunities for a couple of friendlies, or even a mini-tournament. Another 2-3 games. We're pushing 30 games and we haven't even touched on potential games for both our mens and womens Canadian national teams. Nor have I added in academy games that often get quietly slipped in as double-headers on MLS match days. What about staging local and regional high school soccer finals there?
It's not inconceivable that a really good year at BMO Field would host 35-40 high level games between late March and late October. That's about 5 or 6 per month. And at some point, TFC have to practice on it just to get angles and trajectories on crosses and set pieces fine tuned. Not a lot, but enough to let players gain enough familiarity that they truly do have a home field advantage. Surely, twice a month would be minimum. Visiting teams would need to practice there as well, especially before internationals, both club and country.
This is the core product. This is where the focus has to be directed in how this stadium is shaped going forward, same as what the Blue Jays are doing at the dome. Less is more. Adding something that will only be detrimental to the core product is counter productive and no matter how Leiweke tries to spin it, there's no way that the effects of 9-10-11? CFL games on grass are going to be anything but detrimental to the playing of attractive, skillful soccer. This isn't Wigan.
Leiweke can't have it both ways. He says he wants to make BMO Field the best it can be for soccer and to grow TFC into becoming a major, world-recognized club. He needs to get out in front of this and declare the CFL option non-viable. The city has put money into the stadium and, so far, it's been well rewarded. If it has more to add to MLSE's funds to help the Argos, then spend it on re-building Lamport Stadium. The potential is there to create a tight little passion pit, the sort of joint that makes the hip flask fashionable and the Argos watchable.
Very well written, great points! Send it straight to TL!
while that is a fantastic post filled with great points, 1 small thing. MLB playoffs are in October. CFL are in November. Game 7 of the World Series MIGHT be within a few days of the first round of CFL playoffs if the playoffs REALLY dragged on but it's pretty unlikely. CFL playoffs would be pretty safely after the baseball season ended.
CFL playoff dates this year were Nov 10, 17, 24th. And because of how home field advantage works, it's impossible to play at home on both the first 2 dates and almost impossible to play in both the last 2 (the last 3 years notwithstanding)
Last edited by Waggy; 01-15-2014 at 08:11 AM.
Good post,however 1st team will not practice at BMO because they made exact replica size and grass field at Downsview park,so they don't have to use BMO.High school games at BMO,not a chance,and if you look at Playoffs between MLB,CFL and MLS not even close to each other.
TFC will play best case scenario 23-24 games per year,and with grass at Rogers center you can expect few games to be played there too.
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