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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmolinaro View Post
    1) I'm not the best. Neil Davidson of CP is, in my opinion.
    As Canadians we love modesty, but as great as Davidson is you consistently approach stories and issues from a different perspective than other writers and that's what makes you stand out to us. Even when I disagree with you (like your views on the FA Cup - leave it alone!) I appreciate the fact that you've thought about things in a way most others haven't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashcleaner View Post
    To be honest, worrying about lines on the pitch really should be the least thing to complain about. Seriously, it's the last item we should ever bring up in any argument about the issue of groundsharing.

    Instead, we should be far more concerned with the issues of a larger playing surface which will place the pitch significantly further away from supporters in the North and South stand and the potential severe damage which could be done to the grass surface or it's possible removal in favour for an artificial surface. The fact is, everything about BMO Field from the size of the playing surface to the layout of seats and internal elements is soccer-centric. THAT's what we have to focus on, and to be honest, we need to convince Argonaut fans of that two.

    Groundsharing BMO Field could create some very major drawbacks for both clubs. It's a compromise where both parties lose out of some very important items, and to be honest, that's why I think we're going about this the wrong way by putting up NO ARGOS IN BMO websites and petitions. We need to show people the potential negatives that will affect both teams as a result of a groundsharing scheme and get Argo fans on our side. Any campaign of this sort requires convincing people to get on your side - not creating a divide when there doesn't need to be.
    This is a good point. In fact, it might be possible to get a campaign going for a "Toronto Football" stadium to be used by the Argos, university and high school teams. Make the argument that football deserves its own stadium.

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    Here's the size of a CFL playing surface overlaid BMO image from Google Earth


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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Here's the size of a CFL playing surface overlaid BMO image from Google Earth


    That's not quite right. The BMO field pitch is 105X68 (according to google). A CFL field is 150 yards long (plus another 3-4 of space on each end) by 65 (plus another 7-10 of space on each side). It's literally 30-40% larger than the current pitch. That looks to be closer to 130x55


    edit: the part of the CFL pitch everyone always forgets is the endzones. The endzones are 20 yards long. So its 55 yards each half (110), plus 40 (20 in each end zone). Then you add the space at the back so players can safely run out the back of the endzone (another 6-8 yards total, 3-4 yards per endzone approx.) and you need about 160 yards north south at a minimum
    Last edited by Waggy; 01-10-2014 at 01:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waggy View Post
    The endzones are 20 yards long. Then you add the space at the back so players can safely run out the back of the endzone (another 3-4 yards per endzone approx.)
    Which was exactly what started a revolt here in Ottawa when the Ottawa Fury FC proposed putting the supporters groups behind the endzone at the new TD Place Stadium.

    We made it clear that we wanted as much of a footy atmosphere as we could get and that meant being as close to the pitch as possible. We ended up sideline on one of the goal lines which is all any footy supporters group can expect from seating in a gridiron stadium.
    Last edited by Mark in Ottawa; 01-10-2014 at 02:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CretanBull View Post
    As Canadians we love modesty, but as great as Davidson is you consistently approach stories and issues from a different perspective than other writers and that's what makes you stand out to us. Even when I disagree with you (like your views on the FA Cup - leave it alone!) I appreciate the fact that you've thought about things in a way most others haven't.
    That is very kind of you to say. Thank you. John

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    Can we talk "meters"? This yard crap is making my head hurt. How many meters is a full sized end to end, side to side CFL field? With space for the teams on the sides and players to run around the back...

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    Here you go. CFL pitch is 150yards by 65 yards or 137m x 60m rounding up. I've added that buffer zone (yellow) of 5m at each endzone and 7m to either sideline.


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    Thanks John for this interview!

    I really don't think the size of the field for CFL is a big deal. It's definitely possible to have the first rows of seats retractable, as many as necessary on each side. The front rows of seats could be just as close to the footy pitch as now.

    The stadium would need to be pushed south to accommodate the longer field. (As many have said, the field can't be extended north as easily, due to the proximity of the Food Building, and I believe there is a large foundation under the North Stands, left over from earlier plans to have a stage there for concerts etc.) As a result, the east & west stands would also have to be reconfigured to put the premium seats back at the centre line. That increases the cost.

    If it was just the reconfiguration of the stands, with seats still as close to the edge of the soccer field as before -- and if that gets us a roof; insulated pipes & heated washrooms; a fixed up concourse to deal with all the drainage problems, etc. etc. -- and if it takes care of Argos & the Winter Classic -- who cares.

    HOWEVER, I believe the real problems are the quality of the grass pitch; CFL lines; and related scheduling issues.

    There is obviously a perfect way to deal with that: removable grass pitch as used in Schalke's Veltins Arena & a bunch of other locations around the world. Problem is the cost, and the space needed for that grass pitch outside of the stadium during non-footy events. I doubt that the MLSE, the CNE, and others would want so much of the parking & event space outside of BMO Field to be covered by the grass pitch when it has been rolled out of the stadium.

    I think Leiweke is being unrealistic otherwise, especially regarding impact of CFL on the grass. It's hard enough to schedule decent times for TFC games now, considering the broadcasters' schedules & everything else. I'm afraid that sharing with the Argos, and leaving recovery time for the pitch after every CFL game, would mean even fewer summer home games, and more early season home games (when the weather is mostly miserable, and Lake Ontario can easily make the lakefront area 10 degrees colder than the rest of the city).

    He's also being unrealistic about the "success" of other shared fields such as in Houston.

    I don't think the pitch will ever really recover after a CFL game in pouring rain.

    And he's dreaming about scheduling to keep things apart in the fall, when the MLS playoffs overlap with the CFL regular season & playoffs. No way to plan ahead & schedule those games far enough apart for the pitch to recover.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 01-10-2014 at 07:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Here you go. CFL pitch is 150yards by 65 yards or 137m x 60m rounding up. I've added that buffer zone (yellow) of 5m at each endzone and 7m to either sideline.

    Exactly! Sorry, it was kinda hard for me to put in words. But yeah, not only do you have to take into account the CFL field dimensions, but you need to add auxillary space around it for training/practise areas, larger bench space, officiating space, etc.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tfcleeds View Post
    If only the Alouettes had never moved into Percival stadium or whatever the heck it's called. We probably wouldn't be having this discussion today. True, one of the major factors in deciding to build a domed stadium was the last Grey Cup the old Ex ever held. But once the Argos saw what Montreal had, with its cozy confines and such, all of the sudden Rogers Centre wasn't good enough anymore.
    Blame Bono and U2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashcleaner View Post
    To be honest, worrying about lines on the pitch really should be the least thing to complain about.
    Umm no its not. It a major issue. I won't even watch an away game againest the Revolution because of what an eyesore the yardage lines are. It fucking horrible and a disgrace to the game. Its just one more reason Euros laugh at MLS.
    And no matter what anyone says about lines being completely removable with no ill effects I know its horseshit. There will always be faint traces of lines and colour differences in the pitch after they've scrubbed it away.

    The Argos can fuck right off.

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    A smaller expansion I really don't mind of course, but the Argos to BMO can absolutely not happen. I don't buy the whole no lines on the pitch and it not being ruined don't see how they will be able to give it the week they say they can give it to recover, there is for sure going to be times when we play twice in a week then the Argos will play on it you can pretty much bet on that, and not to get ahead of myself but what about when the CCL rolls around and we're in it? we going to ask the Argos to reschedule on the fly? I just don't like it, it started out a SSS and it should stay one. If they wanna spend all that money like they said to expand BMO why not spend half on expanding and improving BMO for us and the other half to build the Argos a place to play somewhere and everyone's a winner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryker View Post
    Umm no its not. It a major issue. I won't even watch an away game againest the Revolution because of what an eyesore the yardage lines are. It fucking horrible and a disgrace to the game. Its just one more reason Euros laugh at MLS.
    And no matter what anyone says about lines being completely removable with no ill effects I know its horseshit. There will always be faint traces of lines and colour differences in the pitch after they've scrubbed it away.

    The Argos can fuck right off.
    So can you answer this truthfully? If the original proposed deal for groundsharing at York University did go ahead as planned, does that mean you never would have become a TFC fan?

    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    Well I wasent raised with soccer nor did I play in my youth like a lot of you. I became a fan watching the 2006 World Cup and have grown to love the sport since. I watched TFC from the first game though and also grew to love them from afar. I never missed a game the first few years even skipping out on work a few occasions to watch games on ethier TV or online.
    Back to the original question... would I have become a fan with pointy ball lines covering the field?
    I VERY highly doubt it.
    Last edited by Stryker; 01-11-2014 at 03:52 AM.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashcleaner View Post
    To be honest, worrying about lines on the pitch really should be the least thing to complain about. Seriously, it's the last item we should ever bring up in any argument about the issue of groundsharing.

    Instead, we should be far more concerned with the issues of a larger playing surface which will place the pitch significantly further away from supporters in the North and South stand and the potential severe damage which could be done to the grass surface or it's possible removal in favour for an artificial surface. The fact is, everything about BMO Field from the size of the playing surface to the layout of seats and internal elements is soccer-centric. THAT's what we have to focus on, and to be honest, we need to convince Argonaut fans of that two.

    Groundsharing BMO Field could create some very major drawbacks for both clubs. It's a compromise where both parties lose out of some very important items, and to be honest, that's why I think we're going about this the wrong way by putting up NO ARGOS IN BMO websites and petitions. We need to show people the potential negatives that will affect both teams as a result of a groundsharing scheme and get Argo fans on our side. Any campaign of this sort requires convincing people to get on your side - not creating a divide when there doesn't need to be.

    By the way, you know what's going to be a pretty sweet stadium when it's built? Tim Horton's Field in Hamilton.



    And what's so great about it? Well, it's pretty much multi-purpose in name only. Sure, they're going to be holding Track and Field there for the Pan-Am games, but it's very much the epitome of a CFL-specific stadium through and through. The seating, layout of concessions, playing surface - all of it was built to accommodate the Ti-Cats and the Grey Cup in 2015. That's exactly the sort of facility the Argonauts should be wanting for themselves!
    well written, and of course this field although many would accept it for soccer , would shift the seating farther back from the pitch than BMO which is my main worry . Along with grass .
    ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana

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    Just a point there Cash - there will be no track and field at Tim Horton's Field for the Pan Ams - the athletics stadium for that is under construction at York University.

    Also, pretty sure Winnipeg are favourites to host the 2015 Grey Cup - Hamilton will get it in 2016.

    Here it is in Grey Cup mode


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Can we talk "meters"? This yard crap is making my head hurt. How many meters is a full sized end to end, side to side CFL field? With space for the teams on the sides and players to run around the back...
    Lol. A meter is .92 of a yard IIRC, so 160 yards would be about 144 meters and the 75-80 yard width would be about 70+ meters (though I'm very hungover. you may want to consult a calculator)


    Thanks Gabriel. Yeah fitting a CFL field in there really has to fuck up the soccer sightlines. I guess theoretically the soccer pitch could be expanded a bit too, but still. They'd need at least 2 sections that could move in/out .

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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Just a point there Cash - there will be no track and field at Tim Horton's Field for the Pan Ams - the athletics stadium for that is under construction at York University.

    Also, pretty sure Winnipeg are favourites to host the 2015 Grey Cup - Hamilton will get it in 2016.

    Here it is in Grey Cup mode

    My bad. I thought they were putting a track in. Tell you what though, that's still gonna be a great looking facility for the Ti-Cats.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    Seriously guys like I posted on another thread that new stadium in Hamilton is one ugly looking stadium looks like a little bigger version of BMO field. I mean it looks no different that the old Ivor Wynne stadium in Hamilton. It looks dated like one of those old CFL stadiums you still see in the CFL in cities like Regina, Calgary and the old CFL Winnipeg stadium. This new Hamilton stadium is to open, compare this new Hamilton stadium too some of the new MLS stadiums and there is no comparison, Red Bull Arena in New Jersey, Sporting KC's stadium in Kansas City, Houston's new MLS stadium these are nice modern designs nicely enclosed, not this old outdated design that is the new Hamilton stadium, like really it's 2014 and this is the best they can come up with really?

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    This new Hamilton stadium is to open, compare this new Hamilton stadium too some of the new MLS stadiums and there is no comparison
    Newsflash - this Hamilton Stadium isn't an MLS Stadium

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoccMan2 View Post
    Seriously guys like I posted on another thread that new stadium in Hamilton is one ugly looking stadium looks like a little bigger version of BMO field. I mean it looks no different that the old Ivor Wynne stadium in Hamilton. It looks dated like one of those old CFL stadiums you still see in the CFL in cities like Regina, Calgary and the old CFL Winnipeg stadium. This new Hamilton stadium is to open, compare this new Hamilton stadium too some of the new MLS stadiums and there is no comparison, Red Bull Arena in New Jersey, Sporting KC's stadium in Kansas City, Houston's new MLS stadium these are nice modern designs nicely enclosed, not this old outdated design that is the new Hamilton stadium, like really it's 2014 and this is the best they can come up with really?

    You want this design over a Bowl design.. End Zone seating is kinda pointless when the play is moving away from you. It's the same for MLS, end seating is only good if you are supporter who is chanting and carrying on for half the game.

    I honestly think it is where it started, early euro watchers got so bored in the ends they started making up chants and doing things to pass the time while the play was moving away from them... eventually others joined in and you have the first supports groups...

    (made up history that sounds plausible )

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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Newsflash - this Hamilton Stadium isn't an MLS Stadium
    I'm surprised by the lack of vision this stadium has, this stadium looks like glorified bleachers (or BMO). I can't believe that they still build stadiums without roofs.


    (added quote for clarity)
    Last edited by jimiv; 01-12-2014 at 02:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimiv View Post
    I'm surprised by the lack of vision this stadium has, this stadium looks like glorified bleachers (or BMO). I can't believe that they still build stadiums without roofs.
    Back then there was little budget - 3 levels of government at the table and we were all thrilled to have a soccer specific stadium. How things look today is not how they looked back then. Nobody thought we'd fill that many seats after FIFA u20 - 2007.


    Edit: Woops - Jimi was writing about the TiCats Stadium. Please disregard my post.
    Last edited by DOMIN8R; 01-12-2014 at 02:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOMIN8R View Post
    Back then there was little budget - 3 levels of government at the table and we were all thrilled to have a soccer specific stadium. How things look today is not how they looked back then. Nobody thought we'd fill that many seats after FIFA u20 - 2007.
    I think he may have been talking about the new TiCats stadium.

    - Scott
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielHurl View Post
    Just a point there Cash - there will be no track and field at Tim Horton's Field for the Pan Ams - the athletics stadium for that is under construction at York University.

    Also, pretty sure Winnipeg are favourites to host the 2015 Grey Cup - Hamilton will get it in 2016.

    Here it is in Grey Cup mode

    How much money did they spend? That stadium looks ugly. It looks more like lower tier NCAA stadium or bigger version of BMO field. No roof, no seats in the corner, small number of suite. Did Hamilton copy BMO field design and made it bigger? I notice there are houses across the street. I hate to be people living there to see stadium and deal with crowd in front their homes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    How much money did they spend? That stadium looks ugly. It looks more like lower tier NCAA stadium or bigger version of BMO field. No roof, no seats in the corner, small number of suite. Did Hamilton copy BMO field design and made it bigger? I notice there are houses across the street. I hate to be people living there to see stadium and deal with crowd in front their homes.
    It's being built in the exact same place as the old stadium, so presumably the residents in the area are used to the crowds by now.

    Lack of a roof matters less in football, where playing outside in rain and snow is just part of the game. Hell, in the NFL shitty weather is used as a tangible home advantage by teams like Buffalo.

    I like the look of it. Corner seats are bad for football - as long as the stadium has the number of seats they need without them, it doesn't really matter. Not everything has to be a concrete soup bowl.

    - Scott
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen View Post
    I think he may have been talking about the new TiCats stadium.

    - Scott
    you are correct sir... I edited my post for clarity. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    How much money did they spend? That stadium looks ugly. It looks more like lower tier NCAA stadium or bigger version of BMO field. No roof, no seats in the corner, small number of suite. Did Hamilton copy BMO field design and made it bigger? I notice there are houses across the street. I hate to be people living there to see stadium and deal with crowd in front their homes.
    That's been the stadium site for...what seems like forever. They make good money letting people park on their lawns and would likely be livid if the site had moved.

    There's no money in Hamilton, this was as good as it gets for them. This team is desperately trying to get back in the black, there's no way they can do anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    How much money did they spend? That stadium looks ugly. It looks more like lower tier NCAA stadium or bigger version of BMO field. No roof, no seats in the corner, small number of suite. Did Hamilton copy BMO field design and made it bigger? I notice there are houses across the street. I hate to be people living there to see stadium and deal with crowd in front their homes.
    Actually as a new Ti-Cat SSH i am looking forward to the new stadium. Spending 20-30 million bucks for a roof for 9 or 10 games a year makes no sense to me.

 

 

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