Leiweke and Tobin talk to Sportsnet on BMO expansion, Argos at BMO

[MightyDM]

I've never heard United supporters even mention the lines on the pitch after a rugby league match. It's a non-issue for them.

This was the Rugby League World Cup. Hardly a fair comparison.
To John M: excellent article.
To everyone else: of course we TFC supporters support the CFL and the Argos. We are Canadians. But this stadium was created for soccer, it is the National Soccer Stadium. It was needed because we did not have an adequate soccer specific venue for our national teams or for the U20 world cup. On the other hand, the Argos had $650 million of public funds build them a stadium. My conclusion: if the Argos want to be tenants in a soccer staium, it needs to be clear that that is the deal and soccer has to be protected at all costs. If any more public money goes into BMO it should be on condition that the name reverts to its official name "The NationalSoccerStadium"; that sight lines, grass, etc are not affected, and that the Argos play at the SkyDome once the weather is more risky for grass (after October 1?).
Personally, I would rather we build a football specific artificial turf stadium (see, Kansas City) but if not conditions like the ones I am suggesting need to be achieved.

[CretanBull]

I want to be as open minded as possible with the new people in charge, but historically "consulting" us means giving us an opportunity to vent before they do whatever it is that they were going to do anyway. When it comes down to it, what we think won't ever be an obstacle to their plans and profits.

Most people seem to think that buying the Argos and moving them out of the Rogers Centre is a part of the process that will pave the way for NFL expansion to Toronto. I'll bet my soul that a few thousand soccer fans won't be the fly in the ointment of those plans.

Edit: Once again, thank-you John for covering this team and the issues that surround it better than anyone else does.

[billyfly]

Like I posted in another thread - would you trade winning trophies for sharing with the Boatmen?

[Richard]

Like I posted in another thread - would you trade winning trophies for sharing with the Boatmen?

We shouldn't have to settle with one of or the other.

The Argos messed up and made their own bed, TFC shouldn't have to play charity and give them a home for their screw up.

If TL really wants us to be the mega team of NA he wouldn't consider letting them in, maybe only for 2-3 years until they get a stadium but that's it for me.

I don't really have anything against the Argos, I just think they should get the opportunity to continue building their history in a venue that fosters the tradition of the team.

Anyways I want to hear more from the owner of the Argos and what he thinks.

[billyfly]

He wants someone to take the team off his hands is what he wants.

[__wowza]

if i knew that it wouldn't ruin the environment of the stadium i'd be ok with it, but i don't.

in fact, i know it will. therefore i'm not ok with it.

[johnmolinaro]

John is one of the best (the best?) guys we have.

But ...

No reporter can really deal with the question of reality vs intent. Leiweke can express all the sincerity in the world, and mean it for all anyone knows, but the fact is, the Argos at BMO would inevitably and seriously degrade the TFC fan experience at BMO.

The question is not whether Leiweke has the best of intentions. The question is whether you believe that what Leiweke is saying makes sense to you, and is consistent with your experience, or not.

1) I'm not the best. Neil Davidson of CP is, in my opinion.

2) Re reality vs. intent, I think you're spot on. For what it's worth, I do think Leiweke does have the best of intentions. I really do. What he's saying sounds a bit iffy, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt PROVIDED he specifically and in great detail lays out how he's going to pull this off with no disruption to the soccer experience at all.

My 2 cents.

John

[Phil]

Thanks for the opportunity to talk about this John. It means a lot to the group and fan base.

[billyfly]

As a Torontonian, I love my Argos and my Toronto FC.

I desire for 2 separate facilities but know that we will end up with a shared ground so fight for the most you can get.

[Kaz]

So Tim is saying he screw you to the people of Toronto. Good job.

[Ivy]

So Tim is saying he screw you to the people of Toronto. Good job.

Where did he say that? I must have missed it...

[Shakes McQueen]

John is one of the best (the best?) guys we have.

But ...

No reporter can really deal with the question of reality vs intent. Leiweke can express all the sincerity in the world, and mean it for all anyone knows, but the fact is, the Argos at BMO would inevitably and seriously degrade the TFC fan experience at BMO.

The question is not whether Leiweke has the best of intentions. The question is whether you believe that what Leiweke is saying makes sense to you, and is consistent with your experience, or not.

Like J-Mo says - I actually suspect he probably means what he says, when he says he doesn't want to degrade the soccer experience at all. But have any of us seen an example where this has been the case? I ask that question sincerely.

If he has some foolproof master plan to host football games with no noticeable pitch damage, and no terrible looking football lines intersecting with the soccer lines, then so be it - go to town. But is that possible? What is this secret formula for painting lines, that has no permanent effects whatsoever? And maybe it comes off pretty clean the first 10 times - but what about after 50 times?

Perhaps our drainage system spares us the worst kinds of weather-related damage from playing football on wet or slushy grass, but can we be sure of that?

I want him to be honest with the supporters about how this would work, instead of blowing smoke about how no one will notice any difference. History says that is highly unlikely. As I said before - I'm not opposed to this concept in principle, but I want certain guarantees about the quality of the soccer experience. Not just promises and dubious sounding assurances.

- Scott

[ag futbol]

This is like parents announcing to their kids they are getting a messy divorce on Christmas morning, sandwiched right between the new X-box and PS4. No, no, I’m being totally honest! Just let me give you this news when you’re completely tone deaf.

Here's to hoping this blows up in his face and they have to rough it alone on the stadium front. TFC is never going to reach it's full potential sharing this facility with the Argos.

[Shakes McQueen]

This is like parents announcing to their kids they are getting a messy divorce on Christmas morning, sandwiched right between the new X-box and PS4. No, no, I’m being totally honest! Just let me give you this news when you’re completely tone deaf.

Here's to hoping this blows up in his face and they have to rough it alone on the stadium front. TFC is never going to reach it's full potential sharing this facility with the Argos.

On the bright side - WE GOT AN XBOX AND A PS4. YAYAYAYAYAYAYA.

- Scott

[Blizzard]

I've never heard United supporters even mention the lines on the pitch after a rugby league match. It's a non-issue for them.

Relatively few lines compared to CFL. No hash marks, no lines every 5 yards, no massive numbers, no massive logo's for advertising ... removing all the CFL stuff could be extremely difficult.

Compare that video to this jpeg of Skydome. They would have to rule out any on field advertising IMO. Look at those damned things. It's a lot more than just lines!

[Cashcleaner]

To be honest, worrying about lines on the pitch really should be the least thing to complain about. Seriously, it's the last item we should ever bring up in any argument about the issue of groundsharing.

Instead, we should be far more concerned with the issues of a larger playing surface which will place the pitch significantly further away from supporters in the North and South stand and the potential severe damage which could be done to the grass surface or it's possible removal in favour for an artificial surface. The fact is, everything about BMO Field from the size of the playing surface to the layout of seats and internal elements is soccer-centric. THAT's what we have to focus on, and to be honest, we need to convince Argonaut fans of that two.

Groundsharing BMO Field could create some very major drawbacks for both clubs. It's a compromise where both parties lose out of some very important items, and to be honest, that's why I think we're going about this the wrong way by putting up NO ARGOS IN BMO websites and petitions. We need to show people the potential negatives that will affect both teams as a result of a groundsharing scheme and get Argo fans on our side. Any campaign of this sort requires convincing people to get on your side - not creating a divide when there doesn't need to be.

By the way, you know what's going to be a pretty sweet stadium when it's built? Tim Horton's Field in Hamilton.



And what's so great about it? Well, it's pretty much multi-purpose in name only. Sure, they're going to be holding Track and Field there for the Pan-Am games, but it's very much the epitome of a CFL-specific stadium through and through. The seating, layout of concessions, playing surface - all of it was built to accommodate the Ti-Cats and the Grey Cup in 2015. That's exactly the sort of facility the Argonauts should be wanting for themselves!

[tfcleeds]

Well, personally, lines on the field is a huge issue for me. Maybe it's not as important as having grass and not fooling around with current dimensions, but it totally affects the viewing experience, both live, and on TV. It really is unwatchable at times.

[ensco]

This is like parents announcing to their kids they are getting a messy divorce on Christmas morning, sandwiched right between the new X-box and PS4. No, no, I’m being totally honest! Just let me give you this news when you’re completely tone deaf.

Here's to hoping this blows up in his face and they have to rough it alone on the stadium front. TFC is never going to reach it's full potential sharing this facility with the Argos.

I love this analogy.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Like I posted in another thread - would you trade winning trophies for sharing with the Boatmen?

Absolutely not. I realize I'm in the minority. I thought we were trying to grow past this as a league and STILL this year's playoffs that are supposed to be a big deal to me as an MLS supporter were unwatchable because of the venues that groundshare.

This is like parents announcing to their kids they are getting a messy divorce on Christmas morning, sandwiched right between the new X-box and PS4. No, no, I’m being totally honest! Just let me give you this news when you’re completely tone deaf.

Here's to hoping this blows up in his face and they have to rough it alone on the stadium front. TFC is never going to reach it's full potential sharing this facility with the Argos.

QFT

[Red Rat]

Leiweke is forcing a sugar coated pill of cyanide down our throats!

[Haddy]

That's exactly the sort of facility the Argonauts should be wanting for themselves!

And they're close to getting it

Tim Horton's Field is literally BMO with the west grandstand mirrored on the east side and a longer playing surface. Which is exactly what MLSE is calling for in the upcoming renovation.

#retractableseats #getusedtoit

[Kaz]

Where did he say that? I must have missed it...

I meant that he basically doesn't care about TFC a whole lot as a fan base or organization, just a revenue stream.

[Initial B]

I can understand the desire to bring the Argos to BMO, since that would give greater utilization of the asset. However for me to support such a move, soccer would have to be the primary focus since there would be 17 MLS home games (not even considering CCL play) compared to 9 CFL home games.

I would be okay with Hybrid Grass (Like Desso Grassmaster - if it's good enough for Wembley, it's good enough for us) but not turf. And I do NOT want to see advertisements on the soccer pitch OR on the football field, ever. If they want to use CG to add them in on TV for CFL games, I'm fine with that.

I would be okay with retractible seating in the endzones, but those seats would have to have significant blocks of tickets under direct control of the Supporter's Groups. Potential SSHs in these areas would have to be vetted by the supporter groups in question. Standing, chanting, stamping, banners, and tifos should be expected.

[Yohan]

I can understand the desire to bring the Argos to BMO, since that would give greater utilization of the asset. However for me to support such a move, soccer would have to be the primary focus since there would be 17 MLS home games (not even considering CCL play) compared to 9 CFL home games.

I would be okay with Hybrid Grass (Like Desso Grassmaster - if it's good enough for Wembley, it's good enough for us) but not turf. And I do NOT want to see advertisements on the soccer pitch OR on the football field, ever. If they want to use CG to add them in on TV for CFL games, I'm fine with that.

I would be okay with retractible seating in the endzones, but those seats would have to have significant blocks of tickets under direct control of the Supporter's Groups. Potential SSHs in these areas would have to be vetted by the supporter groups in question. Standing, chanting, stamping, banners, and tifos should be expected.

Hrm. Retractable 'seating' area. GA standing sections?

[FreekAce]

I meant that he basically doesn't care about TFC a whole lot as a fan base or organization, just a revenue stream.

really? not sure based on the moves he's made so far that is the case at all.

like most, i'd rather not have the Argo's at BMO but do not think we'll have any say or influence in the matter with or without us being consulted. in the end its business and i don't think a couple of thousand pissed of football supporters are going to sway MLSE from doing what they want to do. just the reality of things.

also think its pointless to make assumptions on how horrid it will be until we hear about some actual plans for implementing this.
personally i can live with faint lines, not ideal, but it wont be something that'll keep me from supporting the club. i would in the case of this happening like to see the club strike a deal where those awful big ass advertisements on the pitch are prohibited.

[JuliquE]

Leiweke is forcing a sugar coated pill of cyanide down our throats!

I love how we're all trying to one-up ag futbol's initial "Christmas divorce" analogy.

** * **

This is like the relief of cutting the cheese, after a hot chick leaves the room, up until you realize you've sharted.. but, then, anguish turns to relative delight, as you hold back a smile, in anticipation of you're best bud's reaction, when he first catches a whiff.

Too far?

[billyfly]

Looking at the old BMO expansion thread something occurred to me.

When TL mentions all 3 levels of Govt adding to MLSE stadium plans, he might mean for portions directly around the stadium like tie-ins to the Food building and the parking lot b/t BMO and Ricoh etc.

Like is this mockup from before:

[Cashcleaner]

And they're close to getting it

Tim Horton's Field is literally BMO with the west grandstand mirrored on the east side and a longer playing surface. Which is exactly what MLSE is calling for in the upcoming renovation.

#retractableseats #getusedtoit

I certainly don't think so. The playing surface at Tim Hortons Field is HUGE compared to BMO Field. Remember, it's going to have a running track for the Pan-Am games and areas for other sports as well. Also, the internal construction will include the new location of the Canadian Football Hall of Fame. Perhaps the overall look suggests a similarity, but you're not taking into account just how different it will be with a soccer pitch instead of a gridiron.

Trust me, the stadium will be great for watching CFL, but that layout is not very conducive for soccer.

[GabrielHurl]

Yo Phil - Tim and Sid want you to go on their radio show

[Waggy]

I certainly don't think so. The playing surface at Tim Hortons Field is HUGE compared to BMO Field. Remember, it's going to have a running track for the Pan-Am games and areas for other sports as well. Also, the internal construction will include the new location of the Canadian Football Hall of Fame. Perhaps the overall look suggests a similarity, but you're not taking into account just how different it will be with a soccer pitch instead of a gridiron.

Trust me, the stadium will be great for watching CFL, but that layout is not very conducive for soccer.

The other dimentional problem is the width of the pitch. A CFL field is 65 yards wide, plus it needs at least 7-10 yards on each side for the respective teams (the CFL wouldn't allow a situation like used to exist in Hamilton where the wall was literally 2-3 yards from the line. it was mega dangerous). BMO field is what, 68 yards across? It'd need to be expanded east/west by at LEAST 15-20 yards in addition to the north/south expanding by like, 70-80 yards.