BMO to Host Winter Classic...

[Redcoe15]

So Phineas Tim wants to roughly expand BMO Field.

And he wants to see all levels of government kick in millions to make it happen.

And all in the hopes of bringing one event to the stadium.

Either that grand scenario has no chance of ever getting off the ground, or they'll get their money on the condition that they reconfigure the stadium to be more CFL friendly so that the Argos can be jammed in and be the main tennant there. Very different from Phineas Tim's assurances back in November that his number one concern was to see BMO Field remain a soccer only stadium.

If the latter is what ends up happening, then PT's surname needs to emphasize the "Lie" in the first syllable.

[jazzy]

can't see the city falling for MLSE's pitch to fund 'their' business again.......aholes like Ford however cutting taxes(HAHA), would love to find a way to fund them of course if football was included.....the only way to it is with retracting seating.......TL seems to think we're like Americans and will watch footie with the same sight lines as the skydome..........never for me , I don't ever want to go to the skydome again,....for anything...occasional one off's maybe but , they'de lose me.....no intimate experience = no fun . Even Montreal in the big hole sucks huge , simply enjoy the times surrounding the game with fans and the experience.

[jazzy]

With all the changes talked about, we will no doubt be at the skydome for a full season or at least a big portion of one or possibly 2 seasons with the wonderful "turf" and crappy sightlines.

great point .....do we keep our seats , 'blackmail' and stay away for those 1-2 years , or just give them up....I see lose lose situation . Can one ever trust MLSE ?

[Initial B]

You know, after reading the second article, I think this CFL talk is Leiweke's Plan B. He has said that he would do nothing to alienate the TFC fanbase, but that's assuming there will still be a TFC around after 2015. If all the off-season moves don't work out and TFC has another train-wreck season, I see that as being all she wrote for the organization. I'm sure their ticket reps have been hearing from SSHs that this is probably their last chance to make things right and they won't be renewing next year. MLS will probably move the franchise somewhere in the States that still doesn't have market saturation (Minnesota? Phoenix? St Louis?) or may actually start the ball rolling on a forced relegation/promotion scenario (Hello NASL, Indianapolis will take our place).

Regardless, no TFC means BMO can be changed to suit whatever tenants MLSE has in mind. If that happens, well, I guess we'll have to hope that some other group brings professional soccer back to Toronto. Because I would refuse to support any MLSE-run soccer team - they will not get my hard-earned dollars because they will have shown they really don't care about the fans.

[Richard]

You know, after reading the second article, I think this CFL talk is Leiweke's Plan B. He has said that he would do nothing to alienate the TFC fanbase, but that's assuming there will still be a TFC around after 2015. If all the off-season moves don't work out and TFC has another train-wreck season, I see that as being all she wrote for the organization. I'm sure their ticket reps have been hearing from SSHs that this is probably their last chance to make things right and they won't be renewing next year. MLS will probably move the franchise somewhere in the States that still doesn't have market saturation (Minnesota? Phoenix? St Louis?) or may actually start the ball rolling on a forced relegation/promotion scenario (Hello NASL, Indianapolis will take our place).

Regardless, no TFC means BMO can be changed to suit whatever tenants MLSE has in mind. If that happens, well, I guess we'll have to hope that some other group brings professional soccer back to Toronto. Because I would refuse to support any MLSE-run soccer team - they will not get my hard-earned dollars because they will have shown they really don't care about the fans.

What? Really? TFC will never, ever move cities. We can reach Chivas levels of support and it wouldn't even be a conversation because this city has too much potential. TFC is also a money maker, the worst I could see happen is we have no DP's and will just be using the salary cap like all the other low revenue teams. On MLSE's watch this franchise is here to stay, to much embarrassment for them to have a franchise moved out.

[Ivy]

What? Really? TFC will never, ever move cities. We can reach Chivas levels of support and it wouldn't even be a conversation because this city has too much potential. TFC is also a money maker, the worst I could see happen is we have no DP's and will just be using the salary cap like all the other low revenue teams. On MLSE's watch this franchise is here to stay, to much embarrassment for them to have a franchise moved out.

Exactly...
When MLSE is ready to fork out 50million on a 4 year contract, it's a safe bet this team isn't going anywhere. Even if they don't win a single game in the next 3 years.

[TFC07]

Oh great. What a great way to start off the new year with this CFL/Argos BS. I hope if they do bring CFL to BMO field, then TFC lose all their customers(fans) to point they have to fold and desperately find a new tenant. I personally would never support MLSE or any other Toronto sports team ever again if this happens.

The lack of respect for soccer fans in this city is sicken.

[Flipityflu]

Oh great. What a great way to start off the new year with this CFL/Argos BS. I hope if they do bring CFL to BMO field, then TFC lose all their customers(fans) to point they have to fold and desperately find a new tenant. I personally would never support MLSE or any other Toronto sports team ever again if this happens.

The lack of respect for soccer fans in this city is sicken.

that's exactly how i feel about this.

[billyfly]

I want BMO upgraded.

I don't want the Argos there.

Not sure one can happen without the other.

[TFC07]

I want BMO upgraded.

I don't want the Argos there.

Not sure one can happen without the other.

It can happen if MLSE decides to spend their own money to upgrade BMO field, but so far, it seems like MLSE rather get government involved. Point is: MLSE is being cheap and need to realize in the long term, their cheapness is going to cost them more (lost revenue from TFC side).

[billyfly]

^There is more to it than that. There is pressure (be it internal or external) to not appear that they are killing the Argos.

[TFC07]

^There is more to it than that. There is pressure (be it internal or external) to not appear that they are killing the Argos.

No offence to Argos fans, but they don't have much pull. This has been proven in the past with their stadium issues (UofT, York university, BMO field). Argos have made their own bed and it's time for them to move uptown in 905 region (which they're getting interest from municipal governments over there) where they get better support than they will in City of Toronto.

Even Toronto City council wanted Argos to move to BMO field, then City would need to sale the idea to taxpayers that city will use taxpayer money to "save" Argos which isn't going to happen. MLSE doesn't have to do anything here!

[billyfly]

Its not just the Argos, it is the CFL since no Argos means not that much (if at all) TV money.

[jimiv]

I want BMO upgraded.

I don't want the Argos there.

Not sure one can happen without the other.

How about MLSE pays to have the stadium upgraded to a world class soccer stadium, perhaps field a woman's soccer team, and then work with the CSA to ensure that it becomes a true National Soccer Stadium and have a few big national team games or international games every year to fill the seats. MLSE could either get money from the Federal Government to upgrade the National Stadium or they could turn around and somehow write off some of the investment as a donation to the National Team.

[OgtheDim]

All this is based on one line in what TL said about a possible Grey Cup option? Really?!?

We are going to go through this whole "Oh my gosh the Argos are coming to BMO!!!!" thing every time TL randomly throws out a CFL reference just to keep the media talking about MLSE?

Look, I get that TSN badly wants the CFL to succeed and thus Bell is going to be going full bore on all fronts to keep the Argos going. But, the idea that a few hundred million is going to be spent by 3 levels of government for this is all dependent upon Hudak winning in Ontario, the Feds kicking in money to downtown Toronto (something the Federal Tories do not want to do) and even more fanciful, Rob Ford being mayor in 2015.


Nah...this was all talk to keep MLSE looking good at an event that they are not going to get access to again for a decade.

BTW, for those who remember, Joey Pants was the biggest booster of the CNE and thus a relatively easy to develop chearleader for BMO 10 years ago - there is nobody like that at City Hall anymore - somebody supportive of this whole thing with enough knowledge of how to get things through council.

TL is blowing smoke.

[OgtheDim]

Its not just the Argos, it is the CFL since no Argos means not that much (if at all) TV money.

I'm not certain of that anymore. The biggest in game sponsor of the CFL is a grocery franchise with no stores east of Manitoba.

That and, well, the bigger point is the Argos don't need a downtown stadium to survive.

[billyfly]

How about MLSE pays to have the stadium upgraded to a world class soccer stadium, perhaps field a woman's soccer team, and then work with the CSA to ensure that it becomes a true National Soccer Stadium and have a few big national team games or international games every year to fill the seats. MLSE could either get money from the Federal Government to upgrade the National Stadium or they could turn around and somehow write off some of the investment as a donation to the National Team.

Unicorns and rainbows but I think you know that.

[jimiv]

Unicorns and rainbows but I think you know that.

Unfortunately you're right..

The argument that they can only afford the improvements is to bring in the Argos is so short-minded at best and again shows total disdain for TFC fans. I for one think there are way better ways to make up the 10 games a year the Argos would play at the place but for some reason MLSE thinks we'll buy their reasoning.

[Shakes McQueen]

Does anyone want to do anything about this, or just keyboard warrior it up some more?

You want to maybe bring it down a notch? The story went up less than 24 hours ago, and we still aren't even sure what exactly is happening.

- Scott

[nascarguy]

I been hearing about this back around aug and I do not care anymore

[Shakes McQueen]

All this is based on one line in what TL said about a possible Grey Cup option? Really?!?

We are going to go through this whole "Oh my gosh the Argos are coming to BMO!!!!" thing every time TL randomly throws out a CFL reference just to keep the media talking about MLSE?

Look, I get that TSN badly wants the CFL to succeed and thus Bell is going to be going full bore on all fronts to keep the Argos going. But, the idea that a few hundred million is going to be spent by 3 levels of government for this is all dependent upon Hudak winning in Ontario, the Feds kicking in money to downtown Toronto (something the Federal Tories do not want to do) and even more fanciful, Rob Ford being mayor in 2015.


Nah...this was all talk to keep MLSE looking good at an event that they are not going to get access to again for a decade.

BTW, for those who remember, Joey Pants was the biggest booster of the CNE and thus a relatively easy to develop chearleader for BMO 10 years ago - there is nobody like that at City Hall anymore - somebody supportive of this whole thing with enough knowledge of how to get things through council.

TL is blowing smoke.

Or he meant it when he said it, but is just ignorant of the fact that the CFL field wouldn't actually fit in BMO, as currently constructed. I'd like to see TL confronted with more specific questions about this proposed expansion, and how it relates to the CFL/Grey Cup, before I lose my shit - MLSE have actually generally been pretty good in the past, about trying to keep the CFL out. This would be a massive about-face, and all spurred by a single event?

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Unfortunately you're right..

The argument that they can only afford the improvements is to bring in the Argos is so short-minded at best and again shows total disdain for TFC fans. I for one think there are way better ways to make up the 10 games a year the Argos would play at the place but for some reason MLSE thinks we'll buy their reasoning.

As far as I can tell, he didn't actually say this. He made a passing reference to the Grey Cup, as part of a list of events that would be great to have at a newly-renovated BMO Field. The rest we are extrapolating ourselves.

So like I said in my last post, I'd like to see TL asked more specific questions about how the CFL would fit into a post-renovation BMO Field first.

- Scott

[ag futbol]

Exactly my thought, it's another example of TFC taking a backseat to every other team in the city.

Ridiculous!

Not to sound alarmist, but it's becoming a league-wide problem. MLS is losing it's focus and giving up hard-fought ground because of short sighted greed for expansion dollars. They should have told Vancouver no, Seattle to have a plan for a new stadium, and tell Atlanta/Detroit/every other expansion city looking for a secondary tenant to come back when they are serious about building a soccer specific venue.

Leiweke is going to find out the hard way this isn't Seattle or Vancouver. Whatever interest that is left in this team will be snuffed out if they do this reno. As clueless as MLSE was under Teachers', they knew enough to say that soccer without an authentic feel to it would never fly in this town. Too much sophistication, too much international influence to convince people that they should care about something in a half empty stadium played on an artificial surface. Heck, TFC even played right into it with the push for grass and the focus on game-day atmosphere. This isn't the market where a soccer team can be an afterthought and people will still care.

[Tony Santiago]

Why does this guy continue to talk out his ass? Why do people scream the sky is falling every time he does? News flash: Tim Leiweke has no influence or control over any level of government, nevermind all 3.

He's new to this city, so maybe he isn't aware nobody wants to watch The Grey Cup outside by the lake in November when we have the Rogers Centre...a horrible Grey Cup experience was one of the major reasons a dome was built in the first place. People don't want to build stadiums for a novelty idea.

Nobody is building a stadium for the Winter Classic. The Pan Am games have already been planned, nobody needs a larger BMO for the Pan Am games. Rugby doesn't need a larger stadium.

Tim Leiweke seems to have no filter, and just says whatever pops into his head. People need to stop reacting to his bullshit.

[ensco]

Leiweke doesn't want to rebuild BMO for a one-off Winter Classic. That makes no sense.

He wants to rebuild it so that the Leafs can play a lot of games there.

[cmonyoureds]

As with all things TFC these days, believe it when I see it.
All this "statement" of Lieweke's does is put his sports franchises front and centre of everyone, even in the off season for most of them. It's free "buzz" based on carefully chosen, mean nothing, open to speculation statements.

From a business standpoint, he played it perfectly.

[ensco]

As with all things TFC these days, believe it when I see it.
All this "statement" of Lieweke's does is put his sports franchises front and centre of everyone, even in the off season for most of them. It's free "buzz" based on carefully chosen, mean nothing, open to speculation statements.

From a business standpoint, he played it perfectly.

I don't think so. If Leiweke thinks the fact that he found a stenographer to take dictation means something, he is seriously confused. These public-private deals take years, and involve careful, respectful consideration of the public interest.

Leiweke acted like a 200 lb baby who wants something because he wants it. If I were Cope/Rogers, I'd be very concerned. These guys know how the game is played, and this isn't it.

[prizby]

You know, after reading the second article, I think this CFL talk is Leiweke's Plan B. He has said that he would do nothing to alienate the TFC fanbase, but that's assuming there will still be a TFC around after 2015. If all the off-season moves don't work out and TFC has another train-wreck season, I see that as being all she wrote for the organization. I'm sure their ticket reps have been hearing from SSHs that this is probably their last chance to make things right and they won't be renewing next year. MLS will probably move the franchise somewhere in the States that still doesn't have market saturation (Minnesota? Phoenix? St Louis?) or may actually start the ball rolling on a forced relegation/promotion scenario (Hello NASL, Indianapolis will take our place).

Regardless, no TFC means BMO can be changed to suit whatever tenants MLSE has in mind. If that happens, well, I guess we'll have to hope that some other group brings professional soccer back to Toronto. Because I would refuse to support any MLSE-run soccer team - they will not get my hard-earned dollars because they will have shown they really don't care about the fans.

that is why MLSE built a $21 million training complex at Downsview

[Abou Sky]

Does anyone want to do anything about this, or just keyboard warrior it up some more?

We can take action. We don't need to take this lying down. Surely this is one issue all of the supporters groups can work on together. Or maybe not...

???

I'm not saying I won't help out to do something but why would it be a bad thing to have 10 outdoor hockey games in BMO per year? (I think this is a worst case scenario)

I would be against Argos in BMO but I don't think it will happen.

[ag futbol]

Well in case it wasn't obvious already, it's being openly speculated...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl...-to-bmo-field/