[QUOTE=ensco;1643325]Originally Posted by ensco
I registered my email for another account way back when at come point, even though I already had season tickets. So it agree with what you mean in reading between the lines whatever that may mean.
[QUOTE=ensco;1643325]
I registered my email for another account way back when at come point, even though I already had season tickets. So it agree with what you mean in reading between the lines whatever that may mean.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
^ just saw that. Hey, if you are ever stuck with a pair you can't unload... shoot me a PM
Pookie just curious are you regretting not renewing your tickets? just a little maybe?^ just saw that. Hey, if you are ever stuck with a pair you can't unload... shoot me a PM
Not at all.
I won't get into all the issues whether this Koevermans/Frings 2.0 is a good strategy or not and whether I should "support the team" for all they are doing. For me, the decision to buy or not buy is more fundamental than whether they look like they will have a winning team.
(Incidentally, that is a major risk for supporters. Tying your money to wins is about the worst sentiment you can adopt. Once they start winning, where do you think ticket prices will go? But I digress...)
When making decisions it helps to separate emotion from the equation. Emotionally, I have a lot invested in the team. Big part of my life for years. I liked the thought of having season tickets.
Rationally, I have a lot invested (financially) in the team and it's been a bad investment. The reasons that made it a bad one haven't changed.
You buy seasons because you want to be assured you can get to every game and you want to do so at a discount by buying in bulk.
The first issue is a matter of fact. Tickets aren't scarce. Regardless of what number they end up at, there is no waiting list.
Back in the Marlies' pack days, TFC was a novelty. You had a core group of fans and those fans could sell their tickets (remember kids, always sell at or below cost) for games they couldn't make. This year, there is a novelty to it as well but it hasn't translated into a wait list. I will be able to find tickets, all over the park, at or below cost to every game.
The second point about buying in bulk relates to the first one. I can't get to every game. They are on Saturdays. Family commitments don't allow us the luxury of having free weekends. Every parent of an athletic family can relate to that. Over the last few years, I took a bath on every seat that I couldn't resell (at or below cost) and worse, I couldn't even give them away. Given the scarcity issue discussed above, I'll be in the same situation again.
Rationally speaking, why buy tickets in bulk to earn a discount when you know you can't use or resell them?
It's a bad investment.
I say that respectfully. If I had yellows, I'd renew. You are more likely to be able to resell them given the price point and even if you didn't, the financial risk is less than the cost of a new pair of soccer boots.
I don't though. My tickets were in the $1000's. And like many new season ticket holders in the North End or Med Grey and up, it is a different equation. Like Bendik's confidence, I've lost a sh*t ton of money over the last few years and I'm not signing up for that again.
Last edited by Pookie; 02-15-2014 at 07:22 AM.
^Very good summary. You forgot the hassle factor - ticket trader doesn't work for reds (which I had). I have wasted too much of my life trying to sell, then give away, TFC tickets. It'll be different this year at first, but then we'll see, if this team isn't winning, the backlash will be wicked.
If they are winning, the games will be sellouts in the fall. I'll pay whatever it takes down the stretch, but I doubt it'll be too much more than face, and I'll have the flexibility of figuring out which games to go to at the last second. With full knowledge of the weather forecast.
My real risk is that I have to buy playoff games at bigtime scalpers prices (that could cost $300-400 a pair or something). I'll gladly do that, if/when the time comes.
Last edited by ensco; 02-15-2014 at 08:42 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Bad investment, we are talking about tickets to watch football- we aren't talking about buying property. Seriously, if you put this much thought process into everything you do in life, you'd get nothing done- everything would be a bad investment.
Both posts above nailed it.
I will add - my overall game going cost will be lower than what the new med grey would have been this year. Through the ticket trader on here and through friends it won't be hard or $$$ to get tix. I can't make it to every game either (funny how that changes over time - in 2007 when I was younger it sure was a lot different when I could block my schedule off around TFC games)
I did did give up light grey seasons - while it would be nice to still have those, I do not great that either. It was not a financial choice it was a moral one to vote with my wallet against the state of the team at the time.
^BOOM spot on ....seems to be a bit of rationalization going on here..........sure enjoying going to every game this year......and this was before the huge upgrades. Of course there will be a rise in ticket prices . It's a choice of where to put our entertainment $$$. What was it over $200+ to see Drake ,...etc,...I expect even sometime 20% rise . so ? ( should it be free?) A whole season of fun...win or lose, they are GAMES . BUT there is no way it won't be entertaining .
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
7 TIMES?! Sounds like they're desperate to sell their overprice north end and dark/medium grey seats despite what some people on here saying how contacting former SSH is good business.
Of course it is an investment. I don't mean in terms of resale, I mean in terms of the opportunity cost of spending my money on season tickets vs using it for something else.
Here's the premise. If you know you can go to all games, go for it.
If you know though that with vacations, family, whatever you can at best get to 10, what's the best way to do it? I'll use the North End as an example.
You could buy them from the box office for the ten games you can go to. Last year prices ranged from $35 to $45 for these seats. My 10 would cost $700 - $900 for a pair.
Or, you buy North End tickets @ $1,400 for the pair. For this to be the best route, you'd need to recover about $500-700 through resale or about $28-$39/ticket/game for the 9 you can't go to. That ain't happening.
Assume though that I found a buyer at those market rates. If the resale value per game is $28-39, let's revisit my decision to buy from the box office. I won't buy from the box office. I'll buy from STHs.
That brings my cost to attend the 10 games I can go to to about $560 - 780. Perfect. I can take the hundreds of dollars I saved and use it for something else. Maybe it's a sport, maybe I drop that into an RESP for my kids. Point is it's mine.
To give the $1400 to MLSE when I know that I can get the same tickets cheaper and mine will go unused is like handing them a $500-700 tip. Not sure about you but I can use the money elsewhere.
As for everything being a bad "investment" and get nothing done, far from it. I ski a lot. I could buy a lift ticket each time I go or I could buy a pass. The break even point on a pass is 4 times. Go more than that, it's worth the pass. No brainer. I've been up skiing 12 times this year and there is still time left. Buying a pass is the most economical way for me to enjoy skiing. Same is true for other sports like golf or even a simple gym membership. It's basic personal finance.
I've outgrown the idea that belonging to the "club" means something. Besides, if circumstances change and I want to opt back in next year, you really think I'll have to go on a wait list?
Last edited by Pookie; 02-15-2014 at 12:44 PM.
That's because a bunch of them, an alleged supporters group, seem to have swindled themselves into 114.
Well, yes there is. Listen, this is the difference between RPB and the rest of the world, so I respect what you are saying. But it's not some sort of rationalizing .... many non-supporter SSHs would weigh the costs involved, and likelihood of:
- not being able to go to a meaningful number of games (not generally an RPB problem)
- bad weather (a topic where most RPBs are not in alignment with most of the fan base, who consider the conditions at many games wretched)
- the team not gelling, or playing well
- players becoming prima donnas
- injuries: this is the biggie for me, every $40K defender in the league will be trying to break Defoe's and Bradley's legs. We have re-created the 2011-12 problem of having 5 guys be 60-65% of the cap, and even though these 5 are a lot better than that 5, we have seen how this movie goes bad already (given that there is no cap relief for injured players)
I'm not trying to pee in your cereal, but there are realistic ways that a serious fan can come out a loser on the "SSH vs single-game-as-needed" math, this year.
Last edited by ensco; 02-15-2014 at 01:02 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
For someone so obvioulsy pre-occupied with saving money, why didn't you relocate your ticket to a cheaper section. I did that in season 2. $190 for season ticket, I miss a couple of games, no big deal.
Because then the enlightened bitch about kids in the south end.
There are kids in the South End. Let's not confuse why you don't want to be there with your kids. Were you not in 111 Pook?
I think there were many that tried to do what you are talking about on a smaller scale. I gave up my extra for friends after 3 years in. I agree I don't like the burden of getting rid of them.
Luckily for me, having one season ticket works.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I'm with Pookie 100% on this one. I bailed on seasons in year 6. My two would have been $1,400 that year, saved another $900 or so last year. That's $2,300 back in my pocket. I was still able to get to games at a fraction (free to $20) of the price. There was no way my wife was coming into the South end with me so moving into cheaper seats wouldn't work.
Seats aren't scare and won't be this year, games will sell out, but tickets won't be scare unless they come out strong and win big and sexy. For many on this board it's not an issue as you are happily in the cheap seats in the south end, but for many others the clubs refusal to adjust the higher end seats left us with little choice but to get out and pick and choose games. Maybe investment isn't a great word to use but at some time we all have to rationalize whether seasons make sense or not. Lives change, seasons don't always make sense.
The 111 seats we had were in addition to our seasons. I split them with a STH.
I am glad I moved to the south end because of the price but also I like the atmosphere most of the time. Regarding having kids in the south end, I have my kids in the south end at my seats all the time. You just have to have certain expectations. My kids (9 and 11) hear the swearing here and there at the game and know what the words are but don't repeat it so I am fine with it because it is not constantly heard or even I would be bothered. They tell me they hear swearing every day at the schoolyard so I don't see it as a big deal but I am not an uptight parent like some.
exactly I bring my kids to every game, but I guess the ski crowd don't appreciate the odd bit of foul language
I have always enjoyed having seasons and often work out with neighbor ssh to trade pairs. Maybe this is just good fortune but regardless I really like my seat location and see value in that. It is convenient to go to the games that work for me and even last year because of various reasons I could not attend several games i still did not hesitate in renewing. Clearly its not for everyone but seems this season there are 1000s seeing value in it.
Of course there is value in it for many. If you plan on attending all the games then they are good value. If you don't - then you are most likely better to by singles through the various channels.
Relax. Pookie Jr has been on road trips with me when he was 7.
Why are you so concerned with who buys seasons?
"Enlightened" and "Ski Crowd"- Let's all relax and keep it about value. It's legal to have differences in value.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I get why people wouldn't want seasons, I love baseball but even the smallest packs are a no go for me.
That said, I love seeing more 'tickets wanted' than 'tickets for sale' threads in ticket trader (first for me)
For you guys that plan to keep your seasons or for those new season ticket holders, a great question for TL would be whether he plans to adopt similar season ticket benefits in Toronto that he offered customers in LA. Surprised actually that he didn't with the 2014 offering.
Here's a summary of what they get:
A 2 year purchase option - lock in your current price for the next season.
20% off Merchandise - last I checked we were at 15%
Discounts on Additional Single Game Tickets - self explanatory. Make your friends happy they know you
Discounted Season Long Parking Pass - they claim to save you $100
My two personal favourites are these:
Up to 3 Bonus Games Included in the Season Ticket Plan - they claim these have included games like Chelsea, Barcelona and other friendlies as well as MLS Playoff Games and Champions League games
... and one that would have got me thinking about the wasted tickets that I can't resell:
Exchange your Unused Seats - can't make a game or resell the ticket (at or below cost)? Trade it in for extra tickets for games you can make.
Reference: http://www.lagalaxy.com/stm/benefits
LA's stadium is about 27,000 seats and their attendance last year averaged 23,136. TFC has the room to offer all of these benefits with the exception perhaps of Parking. Though the city controls that, TFC could subsidize the cost if they really wanted to.
Hey almost all football tickets are over priced. Can sure cost a shit load of money to follow a premiership club. Or you could go to a NFL or NHL or NBA game. Sports all cost a lot these days. If you want to support a team, that seems to be the way it is. I think you put a bit to much thinking into this. It just comes down to do I want to spend money or not? do i want to support Toronto FC or not?
Last edited by james; 02-16-2014 at 07:11 PM.
I agree with Abou Sky. It's about time that "tickets wanted" outnumber "tickets for sale".
It would be nice if tickets can move for face value as opposed to SSH taking a bath on their tickets every time selling at a loss.
Face value helps out on games you can't make while aiding the single game seeking supporters get better seats than they would at the box office and avoiding Ticketmaster service charges.
Last edited by goodyear; 02-17-2014 at 12:28 AM.
If I see another post claiming that not buying seasons based on a financial analysis is some sort of decision-making character flaw, I am going to lose it.
Let me make this simple. There are lots of people willing to spend $500-1000 a year on TFC. The question is how.
1) A group (a majority of the people here) are SSH's with a pair in the south end. They want to go to 10 games or more, and they'll top up with friendlies, tickets for friends, and hopefully playoffs.
2) But there is a substantial population of people looking for better seats to fewer games (this is probably the single biggest part of the market, much bigger than the south end). These people are want to go to 4-6 games, they're willing to consider being SSHs, they may well be lapsed SSHs, they're willing to pay the prices for better seats, so long as they have some flexibility to pick the games they want, and they also want to spend ..... $500-1000 a year. But that deal isn't available as an SSH, given the crap secondary market, being an SSH in better seats costs $1500-2000 a pair. So they're all in the single game market, like Pookie (and me).
What part of this involves over thinking or rationalizing?
Last edited by ensco; 02-16-2014 at 09:12 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I am a SSH but I live close enough to ride my bike or spend under $5 in gas plus a few $ in parking, I don't drink much and get my free drink for being a designated driver. + a bag of peanuts and I am good to go. Another $15 on my son, done.
That said, I think that saying that you have to have seasons to 'support the team' is BS
That is basically saying that if you don't have $ to attend most /all games you aren't a 'real supporter'
Seriously?
I know passionate fans who go to 1-2 games per year because they can't afford to go to every game. Doesn't make them less of supporter, they just don't have the $
The analysis of being a SSH really comes down to 2 simple economic decisions:
1. can I afford season tickets in the sections i'm offered (not as hard as many people think to get into south or 127 for cheap supporter seats). if i can not afford than my conversation about SSH status is over and maybe i go to 1 or 2 games and support from a place outside the stadium for the rest.
2. Is the money i'm going to spend to become or renew SSH status the best way to maximize my happiness with that money? If i can determine that it is the best way to maximize my happiness then i renew without question. If i am unsure then i need to take a look at my spare income and determine if i'm willing to risk that money on an event that may not maximize my happiness but has a decent chance based on recent activities to doing so.
The investment/ROI conversation is not really relevant IMO because this isn't an investment unless you are a scalper (if you are a scalper i have other, much harsher words for you) but if you are a fan/supporter and your don't own or want to be SSH i sure hope you have a good reason for that decision.
I'm not going to judge anyone for not having them as you can be a very hard core supporter without being a SSH but those of you who are hard core supporters and are not in the stadium i would love to get you in the stadium more regularly
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