Remember that for the first four seasons, TFC had a much higher Canadian content quota that it had to meet. It wasn't until the Whitecaps rallied to get that quota lowered that we saw the minimum changed to what it is now (3 Canadians at TFC, Whitecaps, Impact).Originally Posted by DigzTFC!
Lets be serious here. Italy is one of the biggest and most successful football nation in the world and there is only a handful of countries that can hold a candle to Italy, such as Argentina, Germany, Brazil, Uruguay and Spain. Its obvious that having a team which players consist mostly from the UK, US and Canada have been a disaster and will continue to do so until management sign big name players from the biggest football giants. The Epl is on the decline and majority of the players today are foreigners and signing more English players will leave this team in despair for many years to come.
I have no doubt that a player such as Gilardino or Quags would be able to single-handily carry the team on their back and win tournaments. Montreal has had great success with Nesta and Di Vaio, and DI Vaio is not even half the player of Gila or Quags.
There are some members here claiming that, if the Italians can complain, so can the Chinese, Scottish, Indians and Irish. Name one player that is earning over 10 mil that come from these countries... crickets ? Exactly... these countries are not big football nations and simply do not produce quality players, therefor we have every F right to complain since Italy is among the biggest football nations in the world.
Bring on the big name Argentines, Brazilians, Italians, and Spaniards and i will be the first to buy a TFC jersey. Toronto is the largest multi-cultural city in the world, and TFC should represent it.
Do you really mean that? Your entire post suggests otherwise.
Here we go again with the Itlaian and some cherry picked nations being the only countries we should look at. Fuck off with this shit.
Last edited by Richard; 12-01-2013 at 03:28 PM.
It's just uninterested, poor management. Maybe it manifests in what looks like a bias but really what it is is understaffing (no scouts) and taking the easy way. In a way you could say that the Impact's signing of Italian players is also taking the easy way, Saputo dealing with people he knows.
The problem here is that the management has always been lousy. The senior management here has never cared at all about a style of football. No more than a McDonalds franchise owner cares what's on the menu. People were hired because they were cheapo and available.
I'm glad that this is being talked about here because things have been exposed here that were always there but was never really looked at and broken down. I love the stats that were posted in one earlier message where it showed that this organization when you include players, coaches, trainers and even the equipment guy has such a UK flavour compared to the other clubs in the MLS. The strange thing about it is that soccer is such a global game where we have access to so many coaches , players and trainers from all over the world, but one part of the world has dominated with this organization for whatever reason so far. Now is that why we have been crap for 7 seasons so far? Probably it plays a very very small part to it. However, it does lead people to think it might be part of it and even though I don't totally agree I can see why someone would think it might.
Last edited by SoccMan2; 12-01-2013 at 03:57 PM.
Yeah people forget that, don't they?
That's a very good point that I overlooked. It was a minimum of 8 Canadians prior to 2011 for TFC. Yeesh.
The UK influence part of TFC comes the from fact Canada is part of the Commonwealth, society in general here has a much more UK influence than any American city. Let's not forget Vancouver had a Scottish boss, an English mid in Reo Coker and Scottish striker in Miller.
Mariner... kept pushing the same types of players that Mo did. And Winter brought in a bunch of bust players.
This is the problem that we are going to see fixed.
second we should be developing Canadians talent. All three MLS teams should be working locally more to make sure players are being developed.
Bingo. TFC "went Dutch" not because it was interested in that philosophy at all, but because Klinsmann suggested Winter (and even then, I don't think Klinsmann necessarily suggested Winter per se, he was one of several names on a shortlist). Anselmi was utterly clueless. If Klinsmann had told him to hire someone from Iceland, Anselmi would have done that. There was never any conscious decision to adopt any particular philosophy on MLSE's part.
TFC is already looking at the 2 players i mentioned you [mod edit]
Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-01-2013 at 08:41 PM. Reason: insult
Dudes, calm down. Keep it civil. Personal insults won't be tolerated.
First generation Italian immigrant (people like me born in Italy) are just under 500,000 in the GTA so how do you figure that it is 3.8 of a city that is about 4 million? For the whole of Ontario people on Italian decent is just under 900000, in a province of about 11 million, so again how do you figure. Were the hell are people getting their numbers?
I don think its some grand conspiracy.
Yes this is a multicultural city, but don't lose sight of the fact that we are a former British colony. That more than 1.5 million people in this city identify themselves as English, Scottish, or Irish. And that the Queen of England is your head of state. You know, the person on the back of every single piece of Canadian currency, the one that all newly nationalised people claim allegiance to.
It seems logical enough to me that the team has looked in that direction. I wish the team would have focused more on central America, but I'm not dumbfounded by where they have been looking.
Personally, I think the team is moving in the right direction and that we will have more players from throughout the Americas brought in since that is the most logical place to look for cheaper good quality talent rather than to Europe. As the cap increases looking to Europe for our 'plumbers' will start to make more sense.
For now, I dearly hope that we sign Gilardino and Defoe and that hopefully some of this will be put to bed.
I come to my conclusions from the reactions to any time a discussion like this comes about. There is no logical flaw, it is what I observe
(By the way we are talking about anti-Italian football)
Last edited by trane; 12-01-2013 at 10:17 PM.
You got my curios I am going to try to check him out.
All the people who identify themselves as coming from Italian heritage in the GTA total around 500,000.
That is first, second, third, etc generation all included who claim Italian heritage in the 2011 Canadian census.
These are official Canadian government census numbers. Which is about as solid as statistics come on the matter.
Please feel free to have a look for yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto
I am sure Vaughn and Woodbridge are included in these numbers as they are considered GTA.
In 1996 Italians made up 9.8% of GTA which is now down to 8.6% and probably will continue to fall as most immigration is now non-Italian.
Last edited by Alonso; 12-01-2013 at 10:30 PM.
Top 20 Ethnic Origins in the Toronto
CMA (2011;[33]Total Responses)Population % 2006 Population % 2001[34] Population % 1996[35] Population % English 777,110 14.1 English 804,100 15.9 Canadian 861,945 18.5 English 891,735 21.1 Canadian 728,745 13.2 Canadian 651,635 12.8 English 783,770 16.9 Canadian 710,755 16.8 Chinese 594,735 10.8 Scottish 561,050 11.1 Scottish 517,115 11.1 Scottish 534,595 12.6 East Indian 572,250 10.4 Chinese 537,060 10.6 Irish 487,215 10.4 Irish 480,980 11.4 Scottish 545,365 9.9 Irish 531,865 10.5 Chinese 435,685 9.4 Italian 414,310 9.8 Irish 543,600 9.8 East Indian 484,655 9.6 Italian 429,385 9.2 Chinese 359,450 8.5 Italian 475,090 8.6 Italian 466,155 9.2 East Indian 345,855 7.4 East Indian 255,685 6.0 German 262,830 4.8 German 259,015 5.1 French 220,535 4.7 French 236,315 5.6 French 249,375 4.5 French 241,395 4.8 German 220,140 4.7 German 224,525 5.3 Filipino 246,345 4.5 Polish 207,495 4.1 Portuguese 171,545 3.7 Portuguese 161,685 3.8 Polish 214,455 3.9 Portuguese 188,110 3.7 Polish 166,695 3.6 Polish 161,005 3.8 Portuguese 196,975 3.6 Filipino 181,330 3.6 Jewish 161,215 3.5 Jewish 156,300 3.7 Jamaican 177,305 3.2 Jamaican 160,205 3.2 Jamaican 150,840 3.2 Jamaican 133,690 3.2 Jewish 137,165 2.5 Jewish 141,685 2.8 Filipino 140,405 3.0 Filipino 102,525 2.4 Ukrainian 130,350 2.4 Ukrainian 122,510 2.4 Ukrainian 104,485 2.2 Ukrainian 95,500 2.3 Russian 118,090 2.1 Russian 102,815 2.0 Dutch (Netherlands) 85,860 1.8 Dutch (Netherlands) 85,250 2.0 Spanish 105,740 1.9 Spanish 97,255 1.9 Greek 85,375 1.8 Greek 80,330 1.9 Sri Lankan 104,980 1.9 Dutch (Netherlands) 95,560 1.9 Spanish 65,600 1.4 Spanish 62,520 1.5 British Isles origins (other) 104,070 1.9 Greek 90,585 1.8 Russian 62,540 1.3 Hungarian (Magyar) 44,160 1.1 Dutch (Netherlands) 98,925 1.8 Sri Lankan 80,610 1.6 Hungarian (Magyar) 46,790 1.0 Welsh 44,015 1.0 Total population 5,521,235 100 Total population 5,072,075 100 Total population 4,647,955 100 Total population 4,232,905 100
In case you missed it the last time I posted it.
Last edited by Alonso; 12-01-2013 at 10:42 PM.
First the post I was responding too said 3.8. So he was clearly wrong.
Second, you are wrong Vaughan/woodbridge is not part of the GTA for the purpose of the census, it is only the political GTA which is included (Were Ford is mayor). ( it is called the demographics of Toronto not of Toronto and neighboring cities).Therefore you are missing some 200,000 Italians. The 9.8 (600,000) to 8.6 (475,000) is mainly due to this, and the fact my countrymen are getting older and dying. However, to do not worry there is a new wave of immigration thanks to the recession.
Third you state that the 500,000 is all people of Italian decent, I have a very hard time squaring that with what I know and see, and if you are honest with yourself and are familiar with all of Toronto, you will know that it is a hard number to square. For me the problem with the number is that I have always read in various sources, that there are 600,000 people born in Italy/Italian citizens in Toronto, making this the largest Italian city outside of Italy. So what happened all these Italians came here but they did not procreate?? I doubt it. I am sure that a very large part of those who identify themselves as Canadian in that sensuous are of Italian origin.
By the way despite the two decades of very low Italian immigration, which is now changing, the other groups have hardly surpassed us by significant margins.
( I just read about the mother tongue stats if Italian it truly is 3.5 of the Toronto population, then may be my countrymen have been dying off at a large clip then I would like)
Last edited by trane; 12-01-2013 at 11:17 PM.
I thought this was somewhat interesting.
If you look at Ontario as a whole, German and French numbers move up the ranking significantly with Chinese and East Indian coming down significantly with Polish and Dutch coming up to rival their numbers.
Ethnic group Responses % Total population 12,028,895 100 English 2,971,360 24.7 Canadian 2,768,870 23.0 Scottish 2,101,100 17.5 Irish 1,988,940 16.5 French 1,351,600 11.2 German 1,144,560 9.5 Italian 867,980 7.2 Chinese 644,465 5.4 East Indian 573,250 4.8 Dutch (Netherlands) 490,995 4.1 Polish 465,560 3.9 Ukrainian 336,355 2.8 North American Indian 317,890 2.6 Portuguese 282,870 2.4 Filipino 215,750 1.8 British, not included
elsewhere205,755 1.7 Jamaican 197,540 1.6 Welsh 182,825 1.5 Jewish 177,255 1.5 Russian 167,365 1.4 Hungarian (Magyar) 151,750 1.3 Spanish 149,160 1.2 Greek 132,440 1.1 American (USA) 113,050 0.9 Pakistani 91,160 0.8 Métis 87,090 0.7 Sri Lankan 85,935 0.7 Vietnamese 83,330 0.7 Romanian 80,710 0.7 African, not included elsewhere 75,500 0.6 Finnish 72,990 0.6 Korean 72,065 0.6 Croatian 71,380 0.6 Iranian 70,590 0.6
My bad I was looking at mother tongue data.. which is closer to actual first generation.
Still more then 90% of the population isn't Italian.
Italians have to understand that the world doesn't resolve around them.
There is no anti-Italian bias. The issue is that a portion of the Italian Community like many other insular anti-multicultural groups in the GTA have an issue with Canada. It is that simple. It's why the city of Brampton with 500,000 people had a hockey team move to a city with 50,000 people.
With Irish, British, German, French, Scotish you are talking about a much older immigration.
right on leeds. i suggest any national preference, let alone any specific model approach, chosen by TFC is giving way too much credit to TFC mgmt ... they're not that deep.
No you are wrong, the chart I posted is the Toronto CMA (Census Metropolitan Area) which includes Durham, York, Halton and Peel regions.
Also it is very clear that it is made up of respondents who claim these heritages, meaning second and third generations as well.
Here is the stats-can page that the data comes from:http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2...ustom=&TABID=1
Here is the download map for the region that is considered Toronto CMA: www.pmb.ca/public/e/resource/stats_can_cma.pdf Which is as I described above and includes Durham, York, Halton and Peel regions.
Again, it's all laid out here and indisputable, despite what you may or may not believe.
EDIT : PDF link above doesn't seem to be working, maybe this one will:
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...57155469,d.cGU
Last edited by Alonso; 12-01-2013 at 11:52 PM.
Are these recent numbers (2011 numbers or 2006 numbers)?
No this Ontario chart is from 1996 Census.
1996: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/c1996-r1996/4129975-eng.htm
EDIT: The link for the Ontario (as a whole) chart to the statscan page isn't right.... the above link doesn't seem to have anything to do with that chart so not sure.
Last edited by Alonso; 12-01-2013 at 11:59 PM.
Here's another one. This guy is 22 and plays for the Iraq national team; he plays in the Iraq domestic league but has also scored regularly against Asian international competition. He has 101 goals in 142 appearances.I don't care how small the local league is; when soccer is the dominant local sport and a kid is scoring like that, he deserves a look.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amjad_Radhi
http://ca.soccerway.com/players/amja...janabi/210856/
This is bizarre. Now some of you guys are using census numbers to justify why TFC is UK based?
Come on people. If TFC is justified in choosing its FOOTBALLING style based on census numbers we're truly fucked. We're talking about football here.
The rest of the league doesn't seem to subscribe to this line of thinking…why should we?
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote