Their fans stole Joe's RPB banner.Originally Posted by Phil
Their fans stole Joe's RPB banner.
TSR.
Thats the one.
Montreals sucked IIRC
There's more to it than just Marco Di Vaio putting the ball in the net. Look at the assist stats, they are much more prolific in their ability to provide the striker with the ball. Doniel Henry has the third highest assist total on TFC, with all of 2 for the entire season.
This says something IMO and it's not just that we are toothless up front.
Listen at the end of the day I'm not going to argue with you about performance. But past performance is the best indicator of future performance. Of course Defoe could come here and score only 5 goals, whine all day and be a brat, or he could come score 25, mentor Osorio and Laba, rescue abandoned kittens and cure cancer. I'll leave the due diligence up to our front office.
My point is simple - when it comes to the the three DP slots, you get the opportunity to maximize your financial resources in a way that the salary cap system otherwise prevents. How much you spend on those three DPs, or whether you use them at all, is completely based upon how you want to allocate your resources. Spending more doesn't necessarily equate to a better DP and I completely understand that. But the better the talent the more it's going to cost you.
I personally don't believe DPs should be used as poker chips that you gamble with. I think they are the one true opportunity to acquire a level of certainty that certainly doesn't present itself to often in MLS when your typically going after guys offering <$200K wages annually.
I really like this Gilberto signing - I think it is a very positive addition to our side that was desperately needed. My whole point all along though was that if you are looking at allocating a DP at $370K against your cap, you should be using it to the best of your ability to attract the best damn player you can possibly get. If Gilberto was the best they could get within the funding envelope MLSE has provided the team, than awesome, but we will never really know.
I just don't get why people think because a guy is 24 and coming from Brazil the exact same thing can't happen like you mentioned about Defoe.
Does Defoe have a better chance of working out than Gilberto does? I would say yes.
Is it so much more likely that it's worth 10x the cost? I would say no.
Does signing a Defoe increase the likelihood of management/player turmoil/turnover? I would say yes.
The resources of this team are not just the cap slots. The budget, whatever it is, belongs to the team, too. If it's spent unwisely, we all lose.
To be clear, the Gilberto signing is a radical development, a first for MLS. I am not advocating conservatism.
I would sign 3 Gilbertos and Labas, and skip the Defoes.
Last edited by ensco; 12-11-2013 at 04:02 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
To be fair, you also don't get credit for an assist if the other guy doesn't put it in the back of the net
In sticking with the shallow analysis theme
The definitely created more than us:
TFC shots 344 / on goal 108
Impact 417 / on goal 168
For assists, their top three creators were in teh midfield with 8 apiece (Martins, Mapp & Bernier)
Or top 3 were Convey with 3, Brockie with 3 and Henry with 2.
Of course, having someone up top that can finish does turn those passes into assists
Someone was talking about Dax McCarty earlier in this thread and it got me thinking...
Bendik
Franklin Henry Caldwell Morgan
Jackson Laba McCarty Rey
Gilberto Defoe
Now, I do feel like we need an upgrade over Morgan and that the bench would need some work bc the only players I see there that are useful are Oso, Dike and Boss, but this is easily one of the best starting 11 in the East, and could contend for the Cup if everyone was firing on all cylinders.
Sorry that's just not true. Frings made it clear on multiple occasions that he left more than one better offer on the table to come to TFC. (Interviews in Germany & here. Frings is not somebody known to bullshit.) Klinsmann's name helped attract him -- as did Aron Winter's name. Frings then came to Toronto for the adventure, for the life style, to get away from the European media & celebrity buzz, and for the challenge of turning around a struggling team.
I suspect part of the reason why TFC is chasing Defoe and Gilardino is not just from marketing POV, but also PR POV. Already TFC has gathered so much press in Europe and elsewhere because of being linked to Defoe and Gilardino.
If TFC does want to chase the next Beckham or Henry interested in signing for MLS, it's easier if you can tell them that your team once had Defoe/Gilardino play for them than Gilberto. So, setting up for future player acquisitions may have something to do with this.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Is it? How does it differ from Montero? Both are aquiring a goal scorer from an good quality South American league (albiet Montero was a loan initially).
Agreed. MLS has been tapping SA for good players on DP contract for last 2 years. Though Gilberto may be first guy who is as established as he is, except for Montero and Higuain.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Defoe is a daft signing. Outside of EPL fans he's not a world name, and although he's a major talent, we can get 20 goals for a lot less than $8M a season.
I'm not going to argue against the strategy as I suspect Duane is right; there's just enough parity in MLS that a pair of major gunslingers are going to make any team a competitor. Look what happens to LA whenever Donovan and Keane are both off the pitch at the same time.
I also respect Ensco's financial acumen and his math is right; Defoe is a STUPID deal, from almost every perspective; he has a grade-b 'star' draw -- I'd argue there are so many more rabid fans from Latin countries (Italy, South America, Spain, Portugal) that we'd actually get a better PR hit with someone from those countries; he has zero soccer motivation, as he hasn't stated anything about "growing the game in the U.S" or any of the stuff we heard from Beckham. He's just here for the dough; he can create a goal but scores most of his from service that is a damn sight better than he'll see most of the time anywhere in MLS, so he's not even the right archetype.
To me, Gilardino would be smarter at half the money, with the new Brazilian kid and Dike, and then a new playermaker in the middle.
We also need a starting centre half to tutor/platoon with Doneil, and a backup stopper for Laba. Jackson could play there but the big knock on him seems to be discipline and team play, so having him anchor probably isn't that wise.
Before someone notes that the cap hit is the same, I'll note that the financial viability of the club as a whole should concern us as well, if we want to keep it. I'm sure people in the early NASL days thought things would just get better eventually, too, but realism hit hard.
I think there are a lot of good prospective players out there; Gilberto is intriguing but has yet to have multiple good seasons, so a risk; his own club expressed surprise at his output this season and had not offered him a new contract until recently. The Chilean playmaker I've swung over on, as he looks to have matured as he's aged as a player, and the skill level is pretty sublime.
Thank you. What about Hall, Bloom, and Lambe. There are fine backups for me. I like McCarty on our team. I think he would be the perfect piece.
For RB. Franklin is aiming pretty high, bud. He most likely will be resigned by LA anyways. And, he might be looking to become a full time RM (midfielder) because he has been struggling so much at the back. Jackson and Franklin are very similar in that regard then (athletlic wide-right players), and for the amount of $$ he wants its not worth it.
Much rather take Alston in the second round and sign him at about 100-120.
You seriously expect a PL player to comment on the progess he intends to make on MLS before he has even signed.
Montero had consecutively led the Colombian second division and the Colombian First Division in scoring in back-to-back years. Gilberto is having a breakout year. They're different risks, to me. If you look at some players -- Jackson Martinez as a good example, as is Camillo -- they score at every level, every time they go somewhere new. Those are the real grade 'a' hitmen and Montero was most definitely one of them. Seattle used him as a recessed forward a lot, and he set up a lot of goals there as well. Sporting is using him as a striker and he's lighting up the league. Gilberto might just be blossoming into his prime now, but purely on the odds he'll never be that good a striker.
Another major difference is that Gilberto is coming in young as a starter from Brazilian Serie 'A', which almost never happens in MLS (has it ever?) because the agent fees in Brazil and transfer expectations are usually too high. That opens up, potentially, the most talented market in South America for the first time.
Lots of European players have talked about wanting to play in the U.S. at some point. Defoe isn't one of them. Obviously I don't mean in the last two weeks.
Montero didn't cost $5M.
MLS is going head to head with the Shaktars and Anderlechts and Portos of the world with this signing. It's a very big deal.
Last edited by ensco; 12-11-2013 at 04:40 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
This is actually my secret hope: that Leiweke has no real intention of signing Defoe, but is just doing this for the PR effects, and so that he has something to say in January if all he has to show is Gilberto.
I suspect that I will be disappointed.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
TL will sign either Defoe or Gilardino as part of his goal to make TFC as relevant as LA Galaxy in world soccer. Winning 2nd tier league/cups don't get you the PR that star players do.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Just as a side note, in the distant past MLS picked up another Colombian top scorer who flopped in the league (can't remember the name).
I might disagree with your specifics but I agree with your generally cautious attitude towards this signing. Brazil is a higher quality than Colombia, but it's also more expensive. Also worth noting that in comparison to Columbia they are very much a factory. Guys like Gilberto hang out in the store window every season waiting for someone to purchase. Some work out, some flop spectacularly, so I hope we do our diligence and carefully vet this signing.
Gilberto will be a tfc player come start of season
ORly?
Sorry couldn't resist
Players who do that are ones trying to get a move here.
Becks did it because he wanted his brand in a market he hadn't yet conquered, he also negotiated into his contract a discount to own a franchise.
Defoe doesn't have a brand, is playing in the best league in world, why would MLS ever come into his conversation.
He'll come here for money, same as Henry, Dempsey, Cahill, Keane and Becks, that's football, doesn't mean he'll have any less motivation, in fact he'd probably have more as he wouldn't want to go down as a dud in MLS.
If this new Brazilian is as good or better than Saborio man do we have a player I'm buy-in season seats this year through a hook up see you at the stadium
Luke Wileman @LukeWileman 31s Wow. Mauro Rosales traded by Seattle to Chivas USA. Just a few less people watching his home games!
can't go this route now
Last edited by pdubs; 12-11-2013 at 06:06 PM.
To those that were talking about Rosales...
He just got traded to Chivas
Chivas needs to sign Rosales by the re-entry draft, no? He's still out of contract.
Anyways, I'm sure they'll get that done, so strike one name off the list.
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