TFC 2013-2014 Off-Season player moves/speculation/rumours/etc. thread

[Ivy]

If this doesn't sum up my confusion with the bizarre logic of this off season, I don't know what will. This notion seems to be very prevalent on the Board which confuses the hell out of me.

ANY DP over the age of 23 only accounts for a cap hit of $368,750, it doesn't matter whatsoever the cost or total value of either the transfer or wages.

It doesn't matter whether it's Lionel Messi or Julian de Guzman, the cap hit stays the same. So what makes signing a 24 year old unknown Brazilian a footballing move, whereas signing a known commodity, or an international on a World Cup contending team glitz or dazzle? To me the exact opposite is the case. If this was the Premier League, La Liga or Serie A and your team was weighing the option of dumping the equivalent cash on a virtually unknown, ungoogleable Brazilian attacker or a English/Italian international, you would all be losing your mind.

I have no problems with signing Gilberto, or anybody else for that matter. But in a cap league, where you only have three players in which you can spend the world on, and your resources aren't unlimited but in TFC's case (especially given the circumstances and the state of the franchise) and by MLS standards, it's pretty close, wouldn't the smart footballing move be to sign the most proven, talented players possible.

Everybody is well aware of the cap hit of a DP, regardless of their glamor. However, as mentioned before, a 50million dollar play wont come without some form of backlash to the paying public. Ensco also pointed out that making a mistake on a 50million dollar guy is slightly different than with a 5million dollar guy.

Think about it this way, if Defoe comes here, and scored 5 goals, whines all day, and doesnt show up to practice, what's TFC gonna do with him? Once he comes here, its pretty much the end of the road for him - thats why he's allegedly agreeing to a 4 year contract.

[Ivy]

What are you basing this on?

Montreal proved to have very little depth. The difference between the Impact and TFC was Di Vaio, Bernier and Mapp.

I agree - MTL collapsed because they had no depth. 8 points in the last 10 games? even TFC had more than that...

[PopePouri]

I agree - MTL collapsed because they had no depth. 8 points in the last 10 games? even TFC had more than that...

If Di Viao went down, who would have scored the goals? Wenger?

They're really lucky to have a 37 year old injury free for the whole season.

[SweetOwnGoal]

I do not agree that Toronto can pursue the same strategy as NY/LA (or Seattle, a different, special case that is unique). Not going to restate the reasons unless someone insists, but it's not about the resources of the ownership.

The more amazing thing for me is that you think Montreal is Di Vaio and mirrors. Do other people think that? I sure don't. I personally was amazed by their depth for a second year team. I thought Montreal's second 11 would beat TFC's starting 11 last year.

I have data to back this up, but I suspect you don't care.

If offered a straight trade for Montreal's roster today I would run the other way. They are in trouble.

[Ivy]

I have data to back this up, but I suspect you don't care.

If offered a straight trade for Montreal's roster today I would run the other way. They are in trouble.

So would I.
There was a post made early in the season that was asking who is the better choice, Nelsen or Schullibaum (no idea how to spell his name) - and I can confidently say I would take the non-experienced, cool headed Nelsen any day.

Duane, post that data - Im curious to see it.

[Marc"2L"]

Montreal has very little invested in the youth, n'est pas?

[Yohan]

Montreal has very little invested in the youth, n'est pas?

IIRC has 5 HG players. Ouimette, Lefebvre and Tissot got some games and did pretty well. Hoping Crepeau does well (from CMNT perspective). Messoudi, who apparently is a tricky winger, has yet to make an official appearance.

Not sure if I'm reading too much into this, but on official IMFC site, there is an article saying who 5 good players available on the re-entry draft, and DeRo is one of them.
http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/new...ames-available

[ag futbol]

It’s kind of funny, watching Montreal between the beginning / end of the season left me with distinctly different impressions. At first, I thought they were going to run away with the league the way they were performing. Everyone across the field looked very strong. At the end of the year it was very much Di Vaio and Mapp, everyone else faded badly.

The way I’d evaluate their roster:
Solid Assets: Di Vaio, Bernier, Mapp
Useful in one way or another: Perkins, Camara, Ferrari, Felipe
Unknowns: Lopez, Barnardello

Concerning that it’s an old core, but I would have to say the bottom line is they collected 49 points, ran the top of the table for a while, and had some impressive away wins to start the season. If I was a fan, despite the real slump at the end, I’d be happy my team managed to make solid progress in year two. Time will tell if the momentum continues, but they shouldn’t be easily dismissed.

[ag futbol]

IIRC has 5 HG players. Ouimette, Lefebvre and Tissot got some games and did pretty well. Hoping Crepeau does well (from CMNT perspective). Messoudi, who apparently is a tricky winger, has yet to make an official appearance.

Not sure if I'm reading too much into this, but on official IMFC site, there is an article saying who 5 good players available on the re-entry draft, and DeRo is one of them.
http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/new...ames-available

I'll be interested to see how they handle this going forward. They unexpectedly put a lot of faith in some of these younger guys towards the end of the season.

[Thomas]

I like the move. Like with any new acquisition, there is some risk involved. The team has been fairly up front in saying that they were going to after one 'A' and one 'B' DP. Gilberto will be their 'B' DP, and isn't going to cost train loads of dough.

[Canary10]

I'll be interested to see how they handle this going forward. They unexpectedly put a lot of faith in some of these younger guys towards the end of the season.

Except for the very last game when they decided to play Nelson Rivas, who hadn't even played a game in about 800 years, instead of one of those young home growns. Bizarre decision.

[brad]

Everybody is well aware of the cap hit of a DP, regardless of their glamor. However, as mentioned before, a 50million dollar play wont come without some form of backlash to the paying public. Ensco also pointed out that making a mistake on a 50million dollar guy is slightly different than with a 5million dollar guy.

Think about it this way, if Defoe comes here, and scored 5 goals, whines all day, and doesnt show up to practice, what's TFC gonna do with him? Once he comes here, its pretty much the end of the road for him - thats why he's allegedly agreeing to a 4 year contract.

The other angles are the younger player could feasibly be with the team longer, and the younger player still has things to accomplish in the game vs looking for one last payday. (the latter may or may not be a factor, it's going to be highly dependent based on player).

Laba was a big eye opener for me. That guy is a serious player....

[RealG-TFC]

http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/news/2013/12/re-entry-draft-who-are-biggest-names-available[/url]

I could definitely see them go for DeRo.

[Yohan]

I'll be interested to see how they handle this going forward. They unexpectedly put a lot of faith in some of these younger guys towards the end of the season.

more like, had no choice once injuries and fatigue started to take their toll

[pdogg]

I could definitely see them go for DeRo.

It all depends on what the mkt value for a Dero is. If they think he's worth his current wages, they can pick him up if we pass. But if there's a willingness on his part to come down in his contract demands and come back to Toronto - we get to pick ahead of them in 2nd round too. The only way Montreal gets him is if we let them.

[ag futbol]

more like, had no choice once injuries and fatigue started to take their toll

You are right, no way they would have seen the field with a healthy roster. But, they did have some flexibility in who they decided to play.

A fair number of MLS teams would have relied on typical back-end roster grinders, who are at least a known quality. But Saputo has been on record at various points saying he wants an element of a local team and all else being equal he'd rather put local players on the field, so I applaud them for that. It would have been easy to bury these guys and never give them a shot.

[brad]

It all depends on what the mkt value for a Dero is. If they think he's worth his current wages, they can pick him up if we pass. But if there's a willingness on his part to come down in his contract demands and come back to Toronto - we get to pick ahead of them in 2nd round too. The only way Montreal gets him is if we let them.

I think the only way they get him is if they take him on his current contract in the first round, which is unlikely. Word on DeRo is that he is willing to take a decrease in pay and playing to come back here because of his business interests in the city. Wonder if the same would be true in Montreal? I suspect not,

[pdogg]

If DC United, with allocation money for sucking and for winning the US Open Cup weren't willing to keep him on at his current salary, then I say he falls to the 2nd round - but who knows?

[ensco]

I have data to back this up, but I suspect you don't care.

If offered a straight trade for Montreal's roster today I would run the other way. They are in trouble.

I do care. Why would you say that?

I saw about 5 Impact games, but only one down the stretch.

I thought any number of their subs (i.e. Wenger, Nyassi, Warner, Paponi, Pisanu) would be starters at TFC. This was brutally evident in the 6-0 game.

Maybe my statement was too strong, but yours are much stronger ("Di Vaio and mirrors", "they are in trouble") and I'll be interested to understand how your data shows that "you wouldn't trade their roster for our roster" when they are a 49 point team that finished 20 points ahead of us.

They finished weak, but is that as big a deal as you make it? Every team has a long winless/losing streak in MLS.

[Doucet3]

Armen Bedakian ‏@ArmenBedakian 1m Gilberto sold to Toronto FC from Internacional in $2.5 million deal

His wiki page also has it that hes been sold to TFC as of today. Just waiting for the confirmation AKA the jersey and the Kia training group behind him pic ... yes in the snow better get use to it lol. Thursday in the apparent Presser so thatll be a nice plus for this week of moves.

[Ultra & Proud]

If DC United, with allocation money for sucking and for winning the US Open Cup weren't willing to keep him on at his current salary, then I say he falls to the 2nd round - but who knows?

Any team who would take DeRo in the first round and eat a DP slot on him would be crazy. Totally nuts.

[jabbronies]

If this doesn't sum up my confusion with the bizarre logic of this off season, I don't know what will. This notion seems to be very prevalent on the Board which confuses the hell out of me.

ANY DP over the age of 23 only accounts for a cap hit of $368,750, it doesn't matter whatsoever the cost or total value of either the transfer or wages.

It doesn't matter whether it's Lionel Messi or Julian de Guzman, the cap hit stays the same. So what makes signing a 24 year old unknown Brazilian a footballing move, whereas signing a known commodity, or an international on a World Cup contending team glitz or dazzle? To me the exact opposite is the case. If this was the Premier League, La Liga or Serie A and your team was weighing the option of dumping the equivalent cash on a virtually unknown, ungoogleable Brazilian attacker or a English/Italian international, you would all be losing your mind.

I have no problems with signing Gilberto, or anybody else for that matter. But in a cap league, where you only have three players in which you can spend the world on, and your resources aren't unlimited but in TFC's case (especially given the circumstances and the state of the franchise) and by MLS standards, it's pretty close, wouldn't the smart footballing move be to sign the most proven, talented players possible.

I don't care what his name is, as long as he can score goals in this league.
Just because someone is a proven skill elsewhere - doesn't mean it'll carry over into MLS.

If things are as transparent as this new ownership likes to say it is - then Nelsen has a bigger say in player movement than what is not being mentioned in this thread.

With that being said - would it be a good idea to sign 2 huge names that play completely different styles of football or 1 huge name with a small name to compliment.

I'd go for the later. I'm sure Nelsen would as well. At the end of the day - TL needs 1 big name to dog and pony around the league/world. I'm sure he'd love to develop his own big name to add to his resume of accomplishments.

LA already had Donavan to compliment Becks. TL will be looking for this type of combo - 1 big name and 1 name that becomes big under his tenure.

[Jack]

You lost me at the highlighted area. It's the NY/LA model and, increasingly, Seattle's. it's one of the two established strategies pretty much every team uses. Yes, LA and NY are going to have an advantage with superstar attraction, but Toronto is as wealthy as either. Leiweke is bang on when he suggests that TFC should view itself as a big market. It is.

If they were to add one 20 goal scorer to the existing line-up they are in the playoffs. I have no doubt about it. Montreal made the playoffs with Di Vaio and mirrors. The East sucks . With no scouting network and seven years of terrible in his way the only way Leiweke can make this team competitive now is to find those 20 goals. And make no mistake. TFC needs to be competitive -- even if its the faux competitiveness of a playoff chase--now. I literally fear for the franchise if we aren't playing games with meaning next fall.

What you're talking about is building a championship team. Yes, the domestics need to be vastly improved for that. But, I don't think it can happen without first clawing our way back to mediocre.

If I'm reading you right you'd rather spend another year developing the core before supplementing with a effective, mid-level DP. The people reading this board will be the only ones left in the stadium if they do that. As others have said, at least the overspending is going to a 31-year-old. He has 3-4 years left.

But, here's the thing. If they manage to add 40 goals to the line-up--even with no further additions--TFC could be next years Portland. It's MLS. It can happen overnight.

As most know, I'm as big a cynic as they come. However, what I see is a front office actually understanding MLS. This will piss some off, but even the retention of a guy like Lambe shows that they are trying to do things the MLS way by understanding that all <100k MLS players have holes in their game and maintaining stability in the line-up is one way to overcome that. Kansas City has players at Lambe's level. They just find the way to get the most out of them because it's the reality of a $3.09m (next year) salary cap. For all of TFC's history they've churned through players like that in a mistaken belief they can find better. You can't. You need 10 faceless widgets to get under the cap. You hope you can make them better than the sum of parts through familiarity.

I agree with you. I've been saying this for a while: we need a hybrid rebuild. We need to return to some semblance of respectability in order to attract the talent, in both players and coaching, to build our system to then sustain some sort of success as an organization. You can do both, it's not one or the other. In our league, it is necessary to have a stable of solid young players to be competitive, alongside serviceable MLS vets and some bigtime players. So if we can bring in these stars who will get us out of the utter shitpile, then we go for it. Once Toronto doesn't seem like the asshole of the league anymore, then players will want to play here again.

[Yohan]

I do care. Why would you say that?

I saw about 5 Impact games, but only one down the stretch.

I thought any number of their subs (i.e. Wenger, Nyassi, Warner, Paponi, Pisanu) would be starters at TFC. This was brutally evident in the 6-0 game.

Maybe my statement was too strong, but yours are much stronger ("Di Vaio and mirrors", "they are in trouble") and I'll be interested to understand how your data shows that "you wouldn't trade their roster for our roster" when they are a 49 point team that finished 20 points ahead of us.

They finished weak, but is that as big a deal as you make it? Every team has a long winless/losing streak in MLS.

there is something wrong with your team if it sucks for half the season. take away di Vaio's 20 goals, heck, even take away 10, and Mtl be in similar position as TFC. that team is very thin on depth, and their vaunted Italians didn't contribute much, except MdV (I made a post on this in the nationality thread)

[notthesun]

Rosales tweeted out he'll be leaving the Sounders, so no chance of him renegotiating. He'll be available in the draft.

[ensco]

You all may be right. I can't say you're not. I don't like the Impact either. I think there is something interesting about the unanimity of opinion around the suckitude of the Impact, and that but for Di Vaio, they'd be TFC.

I guess we'll see.

[Ultra & Proud]

there is something wrong with your team if it sucks for half the season. take away di Vaio's 20 goals, heck, even take away 10, and Mtl be in similar position as TFC. that team is very thin on depth, and their vaunted Italians didn't contribute much, except MdV (I made a post on this in the nationality thread)

This is true. They had 50 goals for and 49 against so if MDV even had a so so year then no playoffs. You take all 20 away and then they are us. Virtually the same goals for and against. Not sure how people see the Impact as so good. Their defense was terrible and needs a lot of upgrading. They allowed 2 more goals against than us and they actually held the ball in matches. Unless they pro-actively upgrade that roster now then I expect a decline next season. Maybe a large decline too.

[Phil]

You all may be right. I can't say you're not. I don't like the Impact either. I think there is something interesting about the unanimity of opinion around the suckitude of the Impact, and that but for Di Vaio, they'd be TFC.

I guess we'll see.

I ended up watching a lot of MLS in the second half of the season, saw a lot of Portland and Impact. Gotta say, Impact underwhelmed and chocked in a lot of games during the run into the playoffs, much more than the one game at BMO. Something happened to that team mid season.

That being said, at the start they were firing on all cylinders, not sure if it was a coaching issue or dressing room problem but something was not right. You reverse their season to slow out of the gate and finishing on a roll and we might all be singing a different tune.

[Yohan]

You all may be right. I can't say you're not. I don't like the Impact either. I think there is something interesting about the unanimity of opinion around the suckitude of the Impact, and that but for Di Vaio, they'd be TFC.

I guess we'll see.

this is a very shallow analysis, but Mtl scored 50 GF, TFC 30 GF. Exactly what MdV scored, 20 goals.
Mtl has 49 GA, TFC 47. So Mtl defence was actually worse than TFC.

[Areathrasher]

this is a very shallow analysis, but Mtl scored 50 GF, TFC 30 GF. Exactly what MdV scored, 20 goals.
Mtl has 49 GA, TFC 47. So Mtl defence was actually worse than TFC.

Pretty sure that's the data that Duane was refering to. The soccer version of Corsi pretty much, can't remember what the proper term is.