TFC 2013-2014 Off-Season player moves/speculation/rumours/etc. thread

[ManUtd4ever]

Thinking of all the past plans, coaches, managers and seasons can someone explain to me what is different about this year's "All eggs in the Defoe basket plan?"

Is it vastly different than the "All eggs in the JDG basket plan... also signed like Defoe to boost season ticket renewals? The Mista plan? The Koevermans-Frings plan? The Hassli supplemental plan?"


Are we really expecting different results with what looks to be the same plan?

Yes, we should expect different results this time around, because management is adding a younger, faster, dynamic group of players that possess a greater pedigree and collective skillset than in previous years.

The additions of Defoe, Gilberto, DeRo, Jackson, and Morrow far surpass the quality that has augmented our roster in past off seasons. Furthermore, our incumbent players such as Laba, Osorio, Henry, Morgan, Caldwell, Rey, and Dike provide a semblance of cohesion, as well as a blend of youth, skill, tenacity, and veteran saavy.

Your reference to previous clubs under the stewardship of Johnston, Preki, Winter, and Mariner is not analogous with the current situation in my opinion. Those teams had an atrocious record defensively. Conversely, Nelsen managed to instill a sense of defensive acumen within this club last season that was unprecedented. Our primary issue last season was a lack of scoring options up front, and those shortcomings within the roster have definitely been addressed this off season.

Moreover, other than DeRo, Caldwell, and Defoe, I believe all of our players are in their early to mid 20's, and Defoe and Caldwell could easily play another few years at an exceptional level by MLS standards.

I don't consider the manner in which this current roster is being assembled to be a "bandaid solution", nor does it remotely resemble the short sighted approach that previous management regimes have taken at any point in the past, which constituted unbalanced rosters and negligent salary cap management for the most part.

[Derko]

The press and not so faithful supporters ?

I would say that the guy in charge of the easiest franchise to turn around in MLSE's stable with a playoff proclamation to go along with it is the one setting the table on immediate expectations.

Yes to a degree, but come on you know how Toronto works, That was the cynical sarcasm in me, But you must agree that getting rid of Nelson after say 2 months would be a backwards move, no?

Happy New Year

[BuSaPuNk]

Yes to a degree, but come on you know how Toronto works, That was the cynical sarcasm in me, But you must agree that getting rid of Nelson after say 2 months would be a backwards move, no?

Happy New Year

It would be somewhat of a backwards move unless they bring someone in with more experience that plays the same or close system to what Nelsen has implemented. I think he will have sometime this year and if things don't start well it will be mostly the media pressuring it not the FO.

There's still alot of time between now and the beginning of the preseason. Defoe might not be the only piece coming in. It might be the big piece but i'm going to assume that there not done bringing in quality MLS vets at this point. Especially closer to the beginning of training camps there will be alot of players without contract that we might invite in and do well. That's where the biggest impact will be I think. Can we bring in those players that could be good quality pieces overlooked by other clubs.

[Phil]

We also have a draft coming up. I think Tim B is pretty aware of gems he may be able to pluck out of Gen Adidas.

[0bl1vious]

We also have a draft coming up. I think Tim B is pretty aware of gems he may be able to pluck out of Gen Adidas.

I thought TFC didn't have a pick this year?

[Canary10]

I thought TFC didn't have a pick this year?

They traded down with New York.

[mowe]

Yes, we should expect different results this time around, because management is adding a younger, faster, dynamic group of players that possess a greater pedigree and collective skillset than in previous years.

Great post, I completely agree.

[Pookie]

Yes, we should expect different results this time around, because management is adding a younger, faster, dynamic group of players that possess a greater pedigree and collective skillset than in previous years.

The additions of Defoe, Gilberto, DeRo, Jackson, and Morrow far surpass the quality that has augmented our roster in past off seasons. Furthermore, our incumbent players such as Laba, Osorio, Henry, Morgan, Caldwell, Rey, and Dike provide a semblance of cohesion, as well as a blend of youth, skill, tenacity, and veteran saavy.

Your reference to previous clubs under the stewardship of Johnston, Preki, Winter, and Mariner is not analogous with the current situation in my opinion. Those teams had an atrocious record defensively. Conversely, Nelsen managed to instill a sense of defensive acumen within this club last season that was unprecedented. Our primary issue last season was a lack of scoring options up front, and those shortcomings within the roster have definitely been addressed this off season.

Moreover, other than DeRo, Caldwell, and Defoe, I believe all of our players are in their early to mid 20's, and Defoe and Caldwell could easily play another few years at an exceptional level by MLS standards.

I don't consider the manner in which this current roster is being assembled to be a "bandaid solution", nor does it remotely resemble the short sighted approach that previous management regimes have taken at any point in the past, which constituted unbalanced rosters and negligent salary cap management for the most part.

I love your optimism. And I love the acquisition of Laba and I share your optimism around Gilberto and Rey. I absolutely love the fact that Dike was picked up with a 2015 first round pick, considering we tend to trade those valuable assets away.

I am going to challenge you though.

Yes, certain acquisitions are younger. Replacing certain other acquisitions that were younger too (Silva (25), Plata (21), Eckersley (24), Avila (26), O'Dea (26)).

The backline is still unbalanced and inexperienced. Eckersley, budget charge aside, will be missed. As will O'Dea.
The only replacement is Morrow.

Henry does not replace O'Dea's experience and talent. Caldwell is the anchor at 32 years old, with 2 years left on his deal. Respectfully, Henry, Morgan are not as talented as US Domestic talent that is currently playing within the league. We have have accomplished the goal of getting cheaper on the back end but not improving.

TFC's continual struggle is that its Domestic players, who take up roughly 5-6 starting spots, are not of comparable quality to the vast number of MLS teams out there. It rarely uses its draft positions to its advantage to bring these players in. Even Payne last year traded down multiple times to end up drafting two Canadians that sat on the bench most of the season. While NE and Chivas drafted players that became starters for them and Vancouver selected Manneh (after us) and he's been linked to interest from clubs like Chelsea and Liverpool.

And that's when it doesn't trade them away. Which it did in 2014 for Hassli.

This year is about replacing O'Dea, Eckersley, Urutti, Koevermans, Frings, Hassli, Plata, Silva and Califf with Morrow, Jackson, Gilberto and DeRo/Defoe if either sign. The big names replace the big names. The youth (Morrow, Jackson) replace other youth while the "Domestic" core stays exactly the same and is expected to compete against teams that do it right.

All the while managed by a coach with very limited coaching experience.

Stop me if I've heard this song before.

[Pookie]

I thought TFC didn't have a pick this year?

They don't until 15th overall (for the Convey trade with NY). The 3rd overall pick was theirs but was traded to Vancouver for Eric Hassli. They pick again at 24th (2nd round) and 60th. No picks in round 3.

[Canary10]

"The backline is still unbalanced and inexperienced. Eckersley, budget charge aside, will be missed. As will O'Dea.
The only replacement is Morrow.

This year is about replacing O'Dea, Eckersley, Urutti, Koevermans, Frings, Hassli, Plata, Silva and Califf with Morrow, Jackson, Gilberto and DeRo/Defoe if either sign. The big names replace the big names. The youth (Morrow, Jackson) replace other youth while the "Domestic" core stays exactly the same and is expected to compete against teams that do it right."


I think Morrow is better than you are giving him credit. Certainly an upgrade on Morgan. I think Morrow will be the most successful of the deals we have done so far to be honest.

[Pookie]

"The backline is still unbalanced and inexperienced. Eckersley, budget charge aside, will be missed. As will O'Dea.
The only replacement is Morrow.

This year is about replacing O'Dea, Eckersley, Urutti, Koevermans, Frings, Hassli, Plata, Silva and Califf with Morrow, Jackson, Gilberto and DeRo/Defoe if either sign. The big names replace the big names. The youth (Morrow, Jackson) replace other youth while the "Domestic" core stays exactly the same and is expected to compete against teams that do it right."


I think Morrow is better than you are giving him credit. Certainly an upgrade on Morgan. I think Morrow will be the most successful of the deals we have done so far to be honest.

True. The way I see it, if Morrow replaces Morgan that's a +1. If Bloom replaces Eckersley, that's a -1. If Henry is expected to replace O'Dea, that's a -1. Net impact = -1.

I'd be really optimistic if the line included Morrow-O'Dea-Caldwell-Eckersley. 3 of the 4 would be in their mid-20s and we'd have depth ready to replace Caldwell when he's 34-35. But the team believes that they can do the work cheaper, despite allocation money.

Budget aside, from a pure soccer perspective they have let assets walk that would be better than what they are currently planning to trot out, IMO

[JonO]

This year is about replacing O'Dea, Eckersley, Urutti, Koevermans, Frings, Hassli, Plata, Silva and Califf with Morrow, Jackson, Gilberto and DeRo/Defoe if either sign. The big names replace the big names. The youth (Morrow, Jackson) replace other youth while the "Domestic" core stays exactly the same and is expected to compete against teams that do it right.

Really? Are you just trying to stir things up?
Urutti never played for us so he doesn't need to be replaced.
Plata will be a good player on a good team, but was never going to be a difference maker (I always liked him here, but thought we highly over-rated).
Eckersley was way overpaid for what he delivered. Again, I like the guy, but he was not significantly missed when he wasn't in the line-up
Kovermans and Frings were never really able to play up to their ability because of injuries. Won't be hard to replace (though no fault of theirs)
Califf was meah at best and O'Dea was alright, but reminds me of Eckersley...

[Ivy]

True. The way I see it, if Morrow replaces Morgan that's a +1. If Bloom replaces Eckersley, that's a -1. If Henry is expected to replace O'Dea, that's a -1. Net impact = -1.

I'd be really optimistic if the line included Morrow-O'Dea-Caldwell-Eckersley. 3 of the 4 would be in their mid-20s and we'd have depth ready to replace Caldwell when he's 34-35. But the team believes that they can do the work cheaper, despite allocation money.

Budget aside, from a pure soccer perspective they have let assets walk that would be better than what they are currently planning to trot out, IMO

That back line would cost 1.5million in 2014
And stats don't like... Look at the goals against last year, and the goals against this year.

[Canary10]

True. The way I see it, if Morrow replaces Morgan that's a +1. If Bloom replaces Eckersley, that's a -1. If Henry is expected to replace O'Dea, that's a -1. Net impact = -1.

I'd be really optimistic if the line included Morrow-O'Dea-Caldwell-Eckersley. 3 of the 4 would be in their mid-20s and we'd have depth ready to replace Caldwell when he's 34-35. But the team believes that they can do the work cheaper, despite allocation money.

Budget aside, from a pure soccer perspective they have let assets walk that would be better than what they are currently planning to trot out.

I actually don't see Bloom as a downgrade on Eckersley. Eckersley's negatives (terrible free kick, really bad positional sense, no brain) outweigh his positives (he's aggressive). I think Bloom will be a nice surprise.

Henry v. O'Dea. Yeah I agree on the whole. But I think it would be worse to bring in a starter over Henry. Morrow is brand new, Bloom played about 3 games as a starter. For all intents and purposes the left and right backs are new. I don't want to see another new player in the middle at this point. Need more than 1 starter at the back from last year's team.

[OgtheDim]

Plata has been gone for so long, his replacement's replacement has already been replaced.

[Canary10]

Plata has been gone for so long, his replacement's replacement has already been replaced.

Ha ha!!!!

[Pigfynn]

Yes, we should expect different results this time around, because management is adding a younger, faster, dynamic group of players that possess a greater pedigree and collective skillset than in previous years.

The additions of Defoe, Gilberto, DeRo, Jackson, and Morrow far surpass the quality that has augmented our roster in past off seasons. Furthermore, our incumbent players such as Laba, Osorio, Henry, Morgan, Caldwell, Rey, and Dike provide a semblance of cohesion, as well as a blend of youth, skill, tenacity, and veteran saavy.

Your reference to previous clubs under the stewardship of Johnston, Preki, Winter, and Mariner is not analogous with the current situation in my opinion. Those teams had an atrocious record defensively. Conversely, Nelsen managed to instill a sense of defensive acumen within this club last season that was unprecedented. Our primary issue last season was a lack of scoring options up front, and those shortcomings within the roster have definitely been addressed this off season.

Moreover, other than DeRo, Caldwell, and Defoe, I believe all of our players are in their early to mid 20's, and Defoe and Caldwell could easily play another few years at an exceptional level by MLS standards.

I don't consider the manner in which this current roster is being assembled to be a "bandaid solution", nor does it remotely resemble the short sighted approach that previous management regimes have taken at any point in the past, which constituted unbalanced rosters and negligent salary cap management for the most part.

Great post. I also think that a more game heavy pre season than we have ever had before will help tremendously with the gelling issue and allow us to have abetter chance of hitting the ground running at first kick.


Nelson knows much better than we do exactly what kind of spot he's in here.

[Yohan]

Plata will be a good player on a good team, but was never going to be a difference maker (I always liked him here, but thought we highly over-rated).

4 goals, 8 assists in 29 games (19 starts) with RSL this year. That's good numbers for his salary. (60k)

[Pookie]

That back line would cost 1.5million in 2014
And stats don't like... Look at the goals against last year, and the goals against this year.

Sorry but that cost is not true. The max salary charge is just over 300k per player. League pays up to that amount. Teams cover the difference. It might be more expensive from TFC s end but not overly outrageous from a league budget charge.

As for stats, lost in the numbers between 2012 and 2013 would be a shift in tactics from a Winter to Mariner to Nelsen game plan. The 2012 ended -18 with a CCL run and the 2013 team ended -17 with nothing.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Sorry but that cost is not true. The max salary charge is just over 300k per player. League pays up to that amount. Teams cover the difference. It might be more expensive from TFC s end but not overly outrageous from a league budget charge.

As for stats, lost in the numbers between 2012 and 2013 would be a shift in tactics from a Winter to Mariner to Nelsen game plan. The 2012 ended -18 with a CCL run and the 2013 team ended -17 with nothing.

He did say "cost", not "salary cap cost". Sure the cap hit wouldn't be $1.5 million, but the salary cap / allocation money being spent would be around that mark. I know people are hit or miss on allocation dollars but it is still resources being used on the team that could be spent else where - $1.5 million on that back line is a hell of a lot (and I liked O'Dea and Eckersley).

[mowe]

Sorry but that cost is not true. The max salary charge is just over 300k per player. League pays up to that amount. Teams cover the difference. It might be more expensive from TFC s end but not overly outrageous from a league budget charge.

You can't have two max cap hit (after buying down with allocation) players on your back line. It just doesn't work in MLS. Morrow is a big upgrade on Morgan. I personally didn't think Ecks was anything special as a RB, Bloom will replace him fine. But it would be nice to have better backups for Bloom and Henry, true.

This team does still have a bunch of holes. We need a central mid and a winger to go with backline depth. But there's still time before training camp, and let's see what Bez does in the draft.

[AlanO]

Sorry but that cost is not true. The max salary charge is just over 300k per player. League pays up to that amount. Teams cover the difference. It might be more expensive from TFC s end but not overly outrageous from a league budget charge.

That's only true for DPs, I believe - and neither Ecks nor O'Dea were DPs. Their wages over the max salary charge were paid with allocation dollars.

While both are solid players, you can get comparable talent for far less of a cap/allocation hit. They had to go, through no fault of their own.

I'm not convinced that Bloom or Henry are comparable talent, but at least there's a bit of cap space to go shopping.

[Ivy]

Sorry but that cost is not true. The max salary charge is just over 300k per player. League pays up to that amount. Teams cover the difference. It might be more expensive from TFC s end but not overly outrageous from a league budget charge.

As for stats, lost in the numbers between 2012 and 2013 would be a shift in tactics from a Winter to Mariner to Nelsen game plan. The 2012 ended -18 with a CCL run and the 2013 team ended -17 with nothing.

it is absolutely true.
O'dea was over 550k (after allocation reduction), not a DP, so every penny went against the cap.
Ecks was going to be 500k this year, not a DP, goes against the cap.
It's same to assume Caldwell will be over 200k this year
Morrow's salary I don't know, but I'm guessing it's around 100-120k

do the math.

[Phil]

I will take this opportunity to applaud the MLS on their transparency regarding salary info.

[Yohan]

I will take this opportunity to applaud the MLS on their transparency regarding salary info.

MLS player's union

[Phil]

MLS player's union

I was actually going to thank the union as the MLS gives us absolutely nothing lol

[ag futbol]

Agree with those who are saying that at least "in theory" we have a stronger roster than any time prior to this. Only comparable being the team that missed the post season by one win.

Rosters under Preki, Winter, Mariner, etc... All awful, nothing but lipstick on a pig and very weak supporting casts.

I don't know what we can do, but in theory we look capable of making the post season.

[Pookie]

it is absolutely true.
O'dea was over 550k (after allocation reduction), not a DP, so every penny went against the cap.
Ecks was going to be 500k this year, not a DP, goes against the cap.
It's same to assume Caldwell will be over 200k this year
Morrow's salary I don't know, but I'm guessing it's around 100-120k

do the math.

It's not.

Neither the base amount or the guaranteed amount are the amounts that count against the budget though the base is the closest. The numbers published by the MLSPU do not reflect a player's budget charge. They are published to help agents and players in their negotiation with the league.

The guaranteed amount includes all bonuses, agent fees and other compensation that is annualized over the course of a player's deal. It is a fair assumption that the base amount is the amount that is charged against a team's annual budget, minus allocation money. I have that info from a very well placed source.

As another example, DeRo's base amount was $600k on a non-DP contract in 2013 (though there is some question as to his DP status reported differently in a variety of circles). Regardless, add up all the base amounts in DC's budget last year and you'd get $3.87M... which is almost $1M above the stated "cap" of $2.95M in 2013. It would still be $700k above if DeRo had some kind of DP allowance.

MLS pays the player's salaries and signs the contracts. It then assigns each player a budget charge and teams fill out their rosters according to an assigned budget.. much like a fantasy pool. This budget and presumably the player's budget charges flex via allocation money. This is fundamental and makes a number of conversations we have about "cap" relatively moot. We never know the amounts and we never know the totals. Clearly, in DC's case, there is more than meets the eye and as Phil highlights, MLS' transparency around salaries and budgets leaves a lot to be desired.

Good guess on Morrow. His base amount is listed as $130k which is probably close to what his budget charge is.

[Ivy]

I may have the exact figures wrong, but Nelsen also said that something like 2millon off the cap was being held by 5(?) players...so if the MLSPU figures aren't exact, they are damn near accurate.

DCU could be over the cap, but the allocations figures they hold are unknown. They also unloaded a crazy amount of salary this offseason because they're over the cap.

[Pookie]

I may have the exact figures wrong, but Nelsen also said that something like 2millon off the cap was being held by 5(?) players...so if the MLSPU figures aren't exact, they are damn near accurate.

DCU could be over the cap, but the allocations figures they hold are unknown. They also unloaded a crazy amount of salary this offseason because they're over the cap.

Transparency is the key and there is none.

MLS has to be thought of as completely different than other leagues with a true salary cap.

Every team will spend to the budget because it isn't the team doing the spending, it's the league. The league pays the salaries up to the maximum salary. That's the fundamental difference.

If TFC did nothing but pick up players that the league signed and fit them within the assigned budget , it's output on salaries would be $0. DC may be unloading salaries, not because of a cap but because they want to reduce their own spend relative to their income. I'd be surprised if DC's total spend in 2014 was less than the league assigned budget of $2.9M, simply because the league pays those salaries.

Just as an aside, Alicia Ratterree of SB Nation (Chivas' site... Waking the Red is ours on that network), totaled up the base spending of all MLS teams and found that 17 of 19 teams are over the assigned budget of $2.9M. Her numbers are slightly different than mine as she used the mid summer data and I used the fall data.

http://www.thegoatparade.com/2013/8/...d-compensation

That's why this route of paying massive amounts to a select few players, above what the league is spending isn't one that I favour as it means that you and I end up paying for it out of our ticket prices. TFC would be on the hook for Defoe's salary above the league max or for fees associated with players like O'Dea, Eckersley etc. Get ready for that increase over the next few years.

You are right though. Whatever the budget charge, O'Dea and Eckersley are more expensive than others who play that position. And when you can't draft or develop your own to the level it needs to be, you end up paying more for that. (and by you I mean season ticket holders)