View Poll Results: What Salary Cap Limit would you like to see in place for the 2015 season?

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  • $3.0-3.3 Million: Slow and Steady

    7 5.69%
  • $3.4-3.6 Million: Significant Increase

    7 5.69%
  • $3.7-4.0 Million: Most Likely Scenario?

    17 13.82%
  • $4.1-5.0 Million: Best Case Scenario?

    40 32.52%
  • $5.1-7.0 Million: Double or Nothing...

    21 17.07%
  • $7.1-10.0 Million: Dare to Dream!

    9 7.32%
  • <$10 Million: Playing with the Big Boys!

    10 8.13%
  • No Salary Cap: MLS is the new EPL!!

    12 9.76%
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  1. #151
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    MLS is making money (especially from expansion money they're getting these days) and they need to increase cap space regardless TV money or not. We all know if cap space doesn't increase by next year, then players will go on a strike which will hurt MLS for good. US sports market is very competitive and MLS can't afford to lose a season over salary cap issue.

  2. #152
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    ^ to that though I would say that it is only "addictive" if it is accessible. That means keeping prices reasonable and not at Maple Leaf levels. Corporations aren't buying TFC tickets, it's the average joe and it needs to stay priced accordingly.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    How many world class markets are there in North America that could compete at that level? How many do there need to be to sustain a league?

    The catch-22 might be that the world class markets are over-saturated with professional sports.
    8-10 cities I think. NY, Boston, Chicago, LA, SF are obvious. Then some of Philadelphia, Washington, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Seattle. Probably only Toronto in Canada.

    I don't think there would be saturation .... if (big if) the teams could compete with elite euro teams.

    I think in 50 years that there will be a kind of super league out there with 40-50 teams in the world that play at an elite level. I think it'll just happen. The interest level and dollars available are exploding everywhere.
    Last edited by ensco; 04-18-2014 at 04:30 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    It's over.

    The MLS' strategy was clever but is going to fail, given the huge variety and proliferation of HD games of the best teams from Europe that are readily available to all. This league cannot compete as it stands.

    EPL and the other big leagues are growing a lot faster in North America than MLS is. Soccer may be big here someday, but an MLS where the average team spends $4M on payroll while the average NHL team spends $65M on payroll, will never be anything. This board is totally unrepresentative. The vast majority of people in most bigger cities will not pay attention to minor league anything.

    MLS will have to dump the cap soon. It will have no choice. The teams in world class markets will have to compete, the smaller ones go into division 2. Leiweke understands this, it's the part of his vision that I really respect.

    This story isn't about my point directly, but it'll give you a feel for the real problem.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/fa...cles.html?_r=0
    Soccer in North America isn't big enough to support this. It just isn't. The League has to grow over time.

    A Cap should always be there, sustainable leagues self cap anyway. Except you have a few teams that will spend, and those teams get the best players and it's just silly.

    North American Sports won't work in that way. Without parity the Amount of choice you have means you will go watch the sport where your team has a chance. It's not like that in Europe where Football is king. (baseball might be the exception where you have 80+ homes games a year)

    Hockey, Baseball, Basketball, American Football, and CFL and MLS.

    MLS revenue right now is sitting at 500m a year. You can't raise it too high or too fast.

    Honestly raising to 5m is logical given revenues.

    Leave the DP rule as is, remove transfer fees from the cap, but payable by the club.

    Remove nationality roster rules, and replace with a rule making Domestic players (either Canadian or American) only have 50-66% of their Salary count against the cap. (say 50% for players making under $200,000 and 66% for players over including DPs)

    That provides in incentive to put Domestic Players on the team, to pay them more, and get higher quality domestics.

    You might end up with more International starters but you'd have high quality American Depth players.

    It would improve the quality of the play in the league (if you do something about the Refs) add more internationals, while also maintain it's commitment to domestic growth.

    Until this league is producing double the revenue I can't see it raising the cap or getting rid of it.

    I honestly think the Refs are the issue more then anything else, I also don't think this league will fairly if they keep it smart. We have this weird idea that MLS has to be the best, and if EPL is watch more people won't watch MLS. I just don't think that is true. The League needs to grow, but it's a hard sell.

    I think MLS can succeed but we are at the beginning of MLS 3.0 and it's time to grow a little. Changes to the Cap, Changes to transparency and changes to infrastructure (refs, broadcast standards, and youth academies starting at least at the U-10 level) are the major changes that need to occur. Not blowing up of the Cap.
    Last edited by Kaz; 04-18-2014 at 05:10 PM.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    8-10 cities I think. NY, Boston, Chicago, LA, SF are obvious. Then some of Philadelphia, Washington, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Seattle. Probably only Toronto in Canada.

    I don't think there would be saturation .... if (big if) the teams could compete with elite euro teams.

    I think in 50 years that there will be a kind of super league out there with 40-50 teams in the world that play at an elite level. I think it'll just happen. The interest level and dollars available are exploding everywhere.
    Yeah, I can see it in 50 years, 10 North American teams, 10 European, some South American and some in the Far East.

    Of course, people once thought baseball would be international like that and the NFL once thought they could expand all over Europe. There's a lot of competition for those dollars everywhere, but yeah, a worldwide soccer league could happen.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The European model as its currently practiced is unsustainable without petrodollars or other forms of sugar daddies, (often state broadcasters when it comes to Champions League). The same issues are being replicated 6-7 steps below the highest divisions in England.

    Gretna comes to mind.

    MLS is likewise heading to a two tier system with the haves and the have nots.

    What MLS has is the potential to see a good game at a relatively local level. Eventually, a certain % of those people watching Liverpool on TV every Saturday and Sunday morning will seek out a live entertainment version of what they are watching. Happens all over the world - local following of football exists because people become addicted to watching their local team.
    Well there are lots of shades of grey in here. On the one end you have the free spenders and on the other you have outfits like MLS. But in the middle you have places like Germany which are placing financial restrictions, but less onerous ones on the teams that allow clubs to have more incentives to grow.

    As far as local football goes, we have a form of it now. Question is, does it ever start to capture everyone's attention?

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    Yeah, I can see it in 50 years, 10 North American teams, 10 European, some South American and some in the Far East.

    Of course, people once thought baseball would be international like that and the NFL once thought they could expand all over Europe. There's a lot of competition for those dollars everywhere, but yeah, a worldwide soccer league could happen.
    The Champions Leagues are almost there now. It's just the Club World Cup games aren't held all over

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Soccer in North America isn't big enough to support this. It just isn't. The League has to grow over time.
    If North America had Champions League caliber teams, and played opponents with similar payrolls, and played occasionally against the acknowledged best teams in the world (ie elite euro teams), they would draw 75,000 a game and get far better ratings than any sport ex the NFL. Today.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    If North America had Champions League caliber teams, and played opponents with similar payrolls, and played occasionally against the acknowledged best teams in the world (ie elite euro teams), they would draw 75,000 a game and get far better ratings than any sport ex the NFL. Today.
    The Concacaf Champions League is in range, we don't need a ton of work to get there. But I don't believe that currently the US market will watch soccer in significant numbers.

  10. #160
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    Thought I'd bump this. Has anyone changed their views?

  11. #161
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    Wow.....and we are working with the first option: $3.0-3.3 Million: Slow and Steady

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jahinho_Guerro View Post
    Wow.....and we are working with the first option: $3.0-3.3 Million: Slow and Steady
    2nd one, no? 15% increase to $3.5m for this season then 7% increase each season after.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    2nd one, no? 15% increase to $3.5m for this season then 7% increase each season after.
    http://www.sounderatheart.com/2015/3...ils-salary-cap

    According to these guys we're looking at increasing the cap by about $217,000 each year of the CBA. So this year we're at $3.3M. In addition there's this talk of a SuperMax DP which is a bit of a misnomer, more like a total increase of $750,000 to cover the transfer fee plus salary. That would give TFC about 900,000.. is that enough to cover Gilberto and bring him back next year? Don't think so.

  14. #164
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    This is a domestic player focused league, I think that's what everyone needs to come to terms with. The owners, especially the penny pinchers like to keep it that way, makes sense in the long term too.

    Domestics don't deserve significantly more wages.

    The problem of increasing the cap by a lot is not only the foreign players problem, but more importantly the over entitlement attitude, a 40K players isn't all of a sudden worth 100K, the world market dictates their wages more than they want to accept.

    Yes absolutely the minimum needed to go up, should probably have gone up further closing the low-high gap(non DP), but the increase in cap reflects the overall talent of domestics in my opinion.

    MLS isn't just going to stop the bleeding of players to the EU in the short term, its takes time to repatriate all these players or prevent them from leaving.

    As a football fans it sucks, especially when the league is in your backyard, we want to see the best product but its not going to happen until our domestic talent improves.

    Slow and steady. We can only hope that academies start to challenge that idea.
    Last edited by Richard; 03-05-2015 at 06:11 PM.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    http://www.sounderatheart.com/2015/3...ils-salary-cap

    According to these guys we're looking at increasing the cap by about $217,000 each year of the CBA. So this year we're at $3.3M. In addition there's this talk of a SuperMax DP which is a bit of a misnomer, more like a total increase of $750,000 to cover the transfer fee plus salary. That would give TFC about 900,000.. is that enough to cover Gilberto and bring him back next year? Don't think so.
    Yesterday when details were first emerging, there was a lot of talk about a 15% rise row.

    Adam Jardy @AdamJardy · 24h24 hours ago

    Hearing numbers like a seven-year deal, 15 percent increase in the cap and $60,000 minimum salary. #MLSCBA


    Adam Jardy @AdamJardy · 9h9 hours ago

    Hearing a little more about this whole CBA deal, starting with cap raise closer to 7%. Might be higher first year.







    Last edited by Areathrasher; 03-05-2015 at 07:12 PM.

  16. #166
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    The league has to figure out what salary cap they want to end up with in 2019, and work backwards from there. I'm praying that they want the cap to be at least $6 million by that point.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    The league has to figure out what salary cap they want to end up with in 2019, and work backwards from there. I'm praying that they want the cap to be at least $6 million by that point.
    yea...thats all we can do is hope and pray.

    I'm still praying to figure out the amount of phantom money each team has per season? does it expire? etc.

  18. #168
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    http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015...-todd-dunivant

    20% increase for this year.. brings us to 3.72M. 3.98M in 2016. Not great but not bad overall if true.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    This is a domestic player focused league, I think that's what everyone needs to come to terms with. The owners, especially the penny pinchers like to keep it that way, makes sense in the long term too.

    Domestics don't deserve significantly more wages.

    The problem of increasing the cap by a lot is not only the foreign players problem, but more importantly the over entitlement attitude, a 40K players isn't all of a sudden worth 100K, the world market dictates their wages more than they want to accept.

    Yes absolutely the minimum needed to go up, should probably have gone up further closing the low-high gap(non DP), but the increase in cap reflects the overall talent of domestics in my opinion.

    MLS isn't just going to stop the bleeding of players to the EU in the short term, its takes time to repatriate all these players or prevent them from leaving.

    As a football fans it sucks, especially when the league is in your backyard, we want to see the best product but its not going to happen until our domestic talent improves.

    Slow and steady. We can only hope that academies start to challenge that idea.
    Agreed, and it's the way it probably should be. It seems MLS does a lot more buying then selling. Selling players like Altidore and Bradley to Europe only to buy them back at significant prices are hopefully not the long term plan here. Then we (the league) sell Yedlin and Henry to Europe. I think we all agree Henry should go to Europe, because we have selfish priorities of Henry being developed into a great defender for Canada, but from a financial stand point it's clearly not financially intelligent. If he develops into a great defender, West Ham will cash in. Tottenham will cash in. TFC lose, Sounders lose.

    The top teams develop the best players. Half of Barcelona's starting 5 are academy players including Messi. TFC have brought in some real good starting players: Bradley, Altidore, Cheyrou, Giovinco, Perquis. When TFC and MLS are at the point when they can actually develop the OTHER half of the lineup, then this is when the league will be great. It's a process.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defoe View Post
    Agreed, and it's the way it probably should be. It seems MLS does a lot more buying then selling. Selling players like Altidore and Bradley to Europe only to buy them back at significant prices are hopefully not the long term plan here. Then we (the league) sell Yedlin and Henry to Europe. I think we all agree Henry should go to Europe, because we have selfish priorities of Henry being developed into a great defender for Canada, but from a financial stand point it's clearly not financially intelligent. If he develops into a great defender, West Ham will cash in. Tottenham will cash in. TFC lose, Sounders lose.

    The top teams develop the best players. Half of Barcelona's starting 5 are academy players including Messi. TFC have brought in some real good starting players: Bradley, Altidore, Cheyrou, Giovinco, Perquis. When TFC and MLS are at the point when they can actually develop the OTHER half of the lineup, then this is when the league will be great. It's a process.

    The henry sale was i feel a remarkable deal for TFC. They showed they could back door a player in England that would not qualify for a work permit without the cyprus sidesuffle and even helped with a few quid pro quo national team appearances. But the most important aspect is the poster child. All those local academy eligible players who are talented enough but have not come to TFC academny now see that TFC has placed an academy player ultimately into the Biggest of big leagues. Add the historic signings of academy players to the first team, the NCAA players who emd up back via HG and the USL and the PDL teams. The academy now has a very complete pitch to the players and parents that TFC want to attract.

    The long term value of the entire academy pitch now is complete with Henry. Doesnt guaranttee a steady flow of first team developed talent but the days of petrasco and Cairero (sp i know) saying goodbye at 16 because of no obvious pathway are gone.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015...-todd-dunivant

    20% increase for this year.. brings us to 3.72M. 3.98M in 2016. Not great but not bad overall if true.
    Add to it a totally undisclosed amount of Garber bucks and you have the true cap.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Add to it a totally undisclosed amount of Garber bucks and you have the true cap.
    Yeah. We also have NO idea what Cheyrou and Perquis earn. They earn more then 500 k one would think. Then the 3 Dp's... it's tight. I really don't understand how we're under the cap.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defoe View Post
    Yeah. We also have NO idea what Cheyrou and Perquis earn. They earn more then 500 k one would think. Then the 3 Dp's... it's tight. I really don't understand how we're under the cap.
    Kyle Bekker bucks.

  24. #174
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    Is the union still going to disclose the salaries? Does anyone know if that has been changed in the CBA?

  25. #175
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    ^ I don't think salary disclosure is something that is restricted by the CBA. They just put that out themselves.

    This is probably the last update I'll make to this thread. I found this article:

    http://www.lawinsport.com/articles/i...rd-free-agency

    It's a really interesting read for its take on a variety of topics, from free agency to how likely the players were to strike. But this is the part I was most interested in:

    In European football, 65% of total revenues go to player wages.38 In the NFL, player wages account for 37% of total revenues. In MLB, it’s 47%, in the NBA, it’s 55%, and in the NHL it’s 71%. In Major League Soccer, just 17% of total revenues went to player wages during the 2013 season.39
    And this:

    As reported by respected ESPN journalist, Jeffrey Carlisle, under the terms of the new CBA, the minimum salary has been set at $60,000, which represents a large sixty-four percent increase over the previous minimum of $36,500. In addition, the salary cap has seen an immediate 21 percent increase from 2014 to 2015, to $3,740,000 and is set to increase a further seven percent per year over the course of the CBA.
    That means that the salary cap will go up by the following per year:

    2015: $3,740,000 ($60,000 min)
    2016: $4,001,800 ($64,200 min)
    2017: $4,281,926 ($68,694 min)
    2018: $4,581,661 ($73,503 min)
    2019: $4,902,377 ($78,648 min)

    Though not as much as I had hoped, it's still more substantial than I feared based on the initial CBA reports. I think next year we will see a significant increase in quality across the league as South American agents clamour to get their players noticed by the league.
    Last edited by Initial B; 04-10-2015 at 12:21 PM.

  26. #176
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    is the CBA 3 years or 5?
    Also just under 5 mill by 2019 is still not good. In fact its horrible considering where the sport will be by then.

 

 

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