TFC Culture vs Winning

[Cashcleaner]

You're forgetting who owns the club, and also that the vast majority of the audience does not sit in the supporter sections. As far as MLSE is concerned, supporters are a loss leader. They complain the most, pay the least, and also expect the most. Everyone else is less committed to showing up every week, so there's more audience churn, but they also spend more on merch, buy more than just beer, and don't mind losing nearly as much as supporters do. As well, all the sponsors and advertisers who pay money to advertise at BMO Field are paying to advertise to the "everyone else" crowd, and not just the supporters. Winning is good because more people show up, but they don't really give two shits what supporters think.

Yes, you are absolutely right about supporters in that we pay the least and expect the most; but we help sell the team with our presence, and there is a very real dollar amount that can be attached to our activities which the club reaps. Remember, we were basically selling the club for its first four years or so. The supporters were featured heavily on the website, billboards, and newspaper ads. Even today when I talk about TFC to people who don't really follow the team or MLS, the first thing they usually mention is the supporters. And on top of that, I would wager that the supporters spend far much more on merch than the more casual fans - something the club undoubtedly notices as well.

[Suds]

You're forgetting who owns the club, and also that the vast majority of the audience does not sit in the supporter sections. As far as MLSE is concerned, supporters are a loss leader. They complain the most, pay the least, and also expect the most. Everyone else is less committed to showing up every week, so there's more audience churn, but they also spend more on merch, buy more than just beer, and don't mind losing nearly as much as supporters do. As well, all the sponsors and advertisers who pay money to advertise at BMO Field are paying to advertise to the "everyone else" crowd, and not just the supporters. Winning is good because more people show up, but they don't really give two shits what supporters think.

Agreed. But look how that's worked out for them.

And TFC need to understand, if they don't already, that not all "supporters" sit in the south end. Plenty of SSH's who may not be affiliated with a particular group would still think of themselves as supporters. They cheer, sing, come to every game, travel, and own the more expensive seats at BMO.

Supporters may may be a pain in the ass and many may sit in the south end, but they MAY also provide the best margin on revenue. We buy the whole season every shit year. Attend every game. Buy merch, beer, etc. And they really don't need to spend a dollar to get supporters to do that. With casuals and soccer moms they have to spend on marketing to sell each seat for each game. You may still get the same revenue, but your COGS just wen through the roof and pissed away margin/profit. The supporters will also drive that organic grassroots marketing and goodwill for the club - for free. Casuals and soccer moms will not.


On the topic of culture - I don't think TFC still understands the footy supporter, culture, or how to build a club. Until they do it will be more of the same.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Saying TFC don't care what supporters think is jilted talk. That or just lazily taking our entire history and generalizing. I can say they do care and want to work with us as much as will make them a success while respecting supporters POV (which are an extreme minority POV when compared to other NA sports fans).

To say they don't care about hardcore support is to say that MLSE doesn't care about getting into the playoffs or that the players don't care about winning. It may not always be for the noble, altruistic reason the supporters dream of but that is incredibly rare and special when it happens.

[jloome]

there are still LOTS of them in toronto

I was at a company event the other day - we were the Red team -so i wore a TFC golf shirt - i got flack throughout on either, 'you still watch them, they're crap' but many more who were avid football fans and watched PL, Serie A etc. with comments of 'i've tried to watch MLS but it's so bad, no control' or 'i went to a game or 2, the atmosphere was great but the football was horrible'

i spoke football with dozens of them - agreeing with the frustration but saying the product is entertaining but mainly it's my/our home team and i love that and that the league is growing technically stronger every year and will be a competitive force in the next 10 years - there are a few who want to re-check it out

all i can say from this and just living in this city through World Cups is that there is a MASSIVE market to tap into...MASSIVE...

it's true in every city with an immigrant base; Edmonton has about 100,000 East Indian folks who are EPL mad, and not too many whitecaps or tfc fans; I don't imagine it's much different outside the most rural US heartland.

[Yohan]

it's true in every city with an immigrant base; Edmonton has about 100,000 East Indian folks who are EPL mad, and not too many whitecaps or tfc fans; I don't imagine it's much different outside the most rural US heartland.

it takes a while to build a fan base, though I think it's easier to sell the game to people who don't know, or haven't seen much soccer before, so they'll approach MLS without preconception.

I love what KC and RSL are doing, and they don't exist in hot bed of soccer

[Beach_Red]

it's true in every city with an immigrant base; Edmonton has about 100,000 East Indian folks who are EPL mad, and not too many whitecaps or tfc fans; I don't imagine it's much different outside the most rural US heartland.

Maybe, but I think we underestimate the competition for that market. There's a lot of pressure in the US for people to become American and baseball and the NFL are dominant - and are marketing themselves pretty heavily to every market.

But really what got me thinking about this was your statement about sports reporters disliking soccer. I've seen that, too. But from my NA perspective I've also seen soccer not being as inviting to fans who don't already know the game. This idea that there is a unique "football culture" is true - but we don't seem to consider that it may not be such a good thing for increasing the fan base here. I think the MLS may have started out thinking it could someday be as big as baseball and the NFL but has, for now anyway, accepted that their reach doesn't may not extend much beyond people who want to be part of that culture. And that culture, like all cultures, is tough for people who aren't already a part of it to become a part of.

[james]

i think a major renovation of BMO field (without the Argos moving in) to update it to stadiums to the level of perhaps NY's or kc's new stadiums. That could interest new and old fans to check the stadium out, and perhaps that would be a great time to reconnect with supporters to showcase the great atmosphere of BMO field. I also think a lot of people are sick of getting rained on!

[BuSaPuNk]

^ Hell No! I love rain games. It brings the best out of us I think. It's like a party in the rain. The Columbus game it seemed to bring us up a notch and we bagged two goals because of it.

[Haddy]

^ Hell No! I love rain games. It brings the best out of us I think. It's like a party in the rain. The Columbus game it seemed to bring us up a notch and we bagged two goals because of it.

A partial covering won't keep everyone dry. I'd guess the second deck on west side will be okay but those in the lower bowl will probably still need ponchos. Very curious to see what roof design they went with.

[QBall]

i think a major renovation of BMO field (without the Argos moving in) to update it to stadiums to the level of perhaps NY's or kc's new stadiums. That could interest new and old fans to check the stadium out, and perhaps that would be a great time to reconnect with supporters to showcase the great atmosphere of BMO field. I also think a lot of people are sick of getting rained on!

Or they could just improve the product on the field. I'm guessing that would cost less than $100 million. Maybe.

[james]

Or they could just improve the product on the field. I'm guessing that would cost less than $100 million. Maybe.

True, but are MLSE capable of doing such a thing?

[inheavensince07]

MLSE has loads of lip service but as of now year 7 dead we can only wait and see what next year brings .. Unless they get lucky with a complete over haul and things go well we are looking at another shitty rebuilding year .. 2 or even 3 DP's will even make things worse if they shit the bed .. I am super frustrated watching teams like MTL leap over us .. TL most likely full of a lot of corp hot air is my guess go leafs go is his motto

[Fort York Redcoat]

MLSE has loads of lip service but as of now year 7 dead we can only wait and see what next year brings .. Unless they get lucky with a complete over haul and things go well we are looking at another shitty rebuilding year .. 2 or even 3 DP's will even make things worse if they shit the bed .. I am super frustrated watching teams like MTL leap over us .. TL most likely full of a lot of corp hot air is my guess go leafs go is his motto

I think you hit every negative generalization about this team one can find on fb with that post.


You're not wrong about the likelyhood of a building year. Some of our DP's won't get here till midseason.
TL is go leafs go but that doesn't mean he doesn't want our team to succeed.
What has MLSE said lately? I don't really pay attention to what the actual board says. They don't have many press releases as a group.

[QBall]

True, but are MLSE capable of doing such a thing?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. If they keep hiring everyone on the planet to play for TFC eventually they'll come up with a winning product. Keep in mind TFC is a corporation and cannot die (they can be killed however).

[jloome]

I think you hit every negative generalization about this team one can find on fb with that post.


You're not wrong about the likelyhood of a building year. Some of our DP's won't get here till midseason.
TL is go leafs go but that doesn't mean he doesn't want our team to succeed.
What has MLSE said lately? I don't really pay attention to what the actual board says. They don't have many press releases as a group.

Id save the faith in Tl And RN for after hey actually do something. Their stated intent means nothing.

[inheavensince07]

I think you hit every negative generalization about this team one can find on fb with that post.


You're not wrong about the likelyhood of a building year. Some of our DP's won't get here till midseason.
TL is go leafs go but that doesn't mean he doesn't want our team to succeed.
What has MLSE said lately? I don't really pay attention to what the actual board says. They don't have many press releases as a group.

sorry for my massive frustration with this team for almost a decade ... I feel like I am right on the money but it my opinion

[Haddy]

Keep in mind TFC is a corporation and cannot die (they can be killed however).

I saw that movie.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Id save the faith in Tl And RN for after hey actually do something. Their stated intent means nothing.

How do I faith? j/k but really saving faith kinda sorta negates the process. I can't feel disappointed or letdown until the promises in question have actually fallen through/broken.

sorry for my massive frustration with this team for almost a decade ... I feel like I am right on the money but it my opinion

You're entitled to have an opinion as everyone does in equal measure. I'd just suggest to concentrate your frustration on the specific causes if it really riles you. The lack of success should frustrate anyone who cares.