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    Default Campbell: It's Never Personal

    http://thestar.blogs.com/torontofc/2...ver-perso.html

    July 19, 2008

    It's Never Personal

    Midway through John Carver's first season in Toronto, we've all grown used to him going off... on the CSA for not playing the TFC players he loans them...on Guillermo Barros Schelotto for diving... on officials for bad calls, blown calls and disrespect.


    During the news conference following TFC's 0-0 draw with the San Jose Earthquakes, Carver went off again.


    On the media.


    I won't detail his first rant here because I know Cathal Kelly is covering it in his column for Sunday's paper, but midway through the news conference Carver challenged a reporter to tell him whether the local media want Toronto teams to win....

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    I love the man (Carver), but I think he's very clearly in the wrong on this one. Compared to last year, media coverage of TFC has been great. And that means more of the good AND bad stuff is getting reported.

    Sorry John, but you're so wrong.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    Oh great, so we get to read Catheter whine tomorrow.

    Lovely.

    Funny, isn't it. JC was obviously frustrated with things and is out there defending his team, rather than throwing them to the reporter wolves.

    I know Morgan's a pretty fair guy in his assessments, but I do like the fact that the coach is willing to fight back even though in this case it was more out of frustration because we do have a poor road record.
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

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    ^ Morgan is more than fair and he asked a question any number of us here would ask. I give props to Carver for sticking up for his team, but just take a look at any number of today's active threads and you'll note that if given the opportunity, we'd all be asking some tough questions as well.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    Right or wrong I admire the man for his passion and for refusing to let his players get bashed. If they win againest the Impact, and I'm thinking they will, tonights episode will have been a major catalyst in my opinion.

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    Talking

    Welcome to Toronto, Carver. I am not too sure about British media, but here in Toronto, we ask tough questions and if your team is playing shit, then except Toronto media to bash you and your team. That's how we do things in Toronto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Welcome to Toronto, Carver. I am not too sure about British media, but here in Toronto, we ask tough questions and if your team is playing shit, then except Toronto media to bash you and your team. That's how we do things in Toronto.
    He's playing the media. The British media is much, much worse. He's shielding his players at his own expense.

    People seem to think Toronto media is tough. It's not. It's just like media in any other city.

    Carver is a smart guy. He knows what he's doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashcleaner View Post
    ^ Morgan is more than fair and he asked a question any number of us here would ask. I give props to Carver for sticking up for his team, but just take a look at any number of today's active threads and you'll note that if given the opportunity, we'd all be asking some tough questions as well.
    I like Morgan. I trust he knows the offside rule now?

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    I think Cathal Kelly was beaten as a child.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noochie View Post
    I think Cathal Kelly was beaten as a child.
    If he wasn't then he should have been. If not we can always make up for missed time...
    Toronto 'til I die although still a Leeds fan at heart...


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    Morgan is right in what he says about being a reporter.

    i still love JC . i think he lost his temper with the result, and its hard to blame. really, if we lose our temper (which we do/have), then really, should we point the finger if Carver does.

    bygones

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    Quote Originally Posted by noochie View Post
    I think Cathal Kelly was beaten as a child.
    hahahahahaa

    Carver, I love you.
    Morgan, I love you too.

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    and here is Cathal Kelly's article.
    http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Soccer/article/463749

    Not much is said that we don't already know.

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    Has anyone tried to reach out to the writers in Toronto and invite them in to our sections? When Rick Mercer came in we got some positive coverage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kooper View Post
    and here is Cathal Kelly's article.
    http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Soccer/article/463749

    Not much is said that we don't already know.
    Hmm, actually a decent article I thought

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    Yeah I thought it was fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Welcome to Toronto, Carver. I am not too sure about British media, but here in Toronto, we ask tough questions and if your team is playing shit, then except Toronto media to bash you and your team. That's how we do things in Toronto.
    The problem is, as a secondary sport in the city (despite what we would like, it is still not really in the mainstream if TV and other media rarely report anything except a result) the tough questions really don't come that often. Most of the sports reporters are primed to cover other sports. Few people, let alone reporters, have a long history and understanding of the sport here in Canada, unlike the media in other countries where the sport is number one.

    A case of that point is Carver's comments following the Vancouver game on July 1st. He said several times in the post game that he wouldn't comment about the officiating but would be interested to see what the media says about it. In the UK, Europe, or in any other soccer culture, the refereeing would have probably been called out by the media, especially the home media. But there was almost nothing in the local press about it in the days that followed - the story was Carver's anger post match and refusal to comment on the refereeing!

    If that was a leaf game, we'd hear no end of stories in the media of how the refing screwed the leafs.

    While Kelly's article is one of the few I've read from him that actually is half decent, Carver is right - the questions coming from the local media are coming from a group that is learning the sport as opposed to leading it. And as a coach, I can tell you that comments like that play on a team and prop up the opposition - I've used it and seen it used in other sports. Writing it is fair play, especially for a professional team, but when you're pressing to win, you look for every possible advantage.

    But the root cause is inconsistent officiating. If the coaches don't know what is going to be called, the players can't know either, and refing just skews the flow of play rather than enhancing the game.
    Last edited by CoachGT; 07-20-2008 at 09:42 AM.

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    MLS as much as admitted they cost us the Chicago game with bad calls. The call on Edu sucked but the non call on Guevara cost us an early goal. I really appreciate Morgan and all but if I was JC I'd be just as pissed the local press didn't make that one the focus of the post Chicago game reports. I'm not surprised he didn't respond favourably to "sluggish".

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    But give big media in this market a reason to stop paying attention (by, say, missing the playoffs), and they'll gladly scale back coverage, and cover TFC the way they cover the Marlies -- which is hardly at all.


    As far as I'm concerned Morgan has hit the nail on the head!

    It's about accountability…so Campbell calls Carver out on having a 1-5 road record…what's your answer John? Thanks the man's job…ask the questions…get the answers…we buy papers to here your explanations to the questions we are asking ourselves.

    In this market, alienating the media means a disconnect with the supporters and more importantly, potential supporters…like it or not John…this isn't Newcastle…your story will get buried…

    Keep asking Morgan.
    “We changed the entire league’s opinion of the viability of soccer in North America. And then we blew it because we chickened out." —Tim Leiweke

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    MY problem with the media in this city...and I think maybe JC saw it too...is that while they are all too willing to shoot down a team that is stinking it up (which TFC is at the moment, no doubt)...they don't give credit where it's due. AND they don't back up the team when they need it.

    What happened to that opportunity Carver gave the media where he practically BEGGED them to call out MLS and the Refs for costing us points? Bad refereeing is just as much a part of the game that needs analyzing as calling out Guevara for a poor game against San Jose, or our defence for dropping the ball against Chicago. And yet, not a single reporter, Campbell included, had the gonads to call out the refs. We NEEDED them to and they basically refused.

    So you know what? Good on Carver for reminding them that they need to show SOME support to the team as well. If they really want to "see the team in the playoffs" then they need to back up our boys and make sure we aren't dropping points unfairly because of the refs. Now if we do it on our own, the media has every right to call out the coach and the players. But I am convinced we have been robbed of a good 4 or 5 points because of bad calls from the refs...and I can't remember a single instance this year where we have won a game because a ref blew a call in our favour. That is a BIG deal in my books and Campbell and the rest of the media have dropped the ball in this regard. Carver knows that in England, this level of incompetence by the refs would not be allowed and his frustration at having to endure it AND not having the hometown media support him (like they would in England) must be incredibly frustrating. And nobody is acknowledging it.
    Last edited by Roogsy; 07-22-2008 at 12:12 AM.

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    Somebody suggested that this was a ploy to deflect criticism from the team (who played well despite not scoring, therefore not soooo well) and put it on Carver so as to maintain morale. I wouldnt be surprised and its a clever move. We do need a win tho and i do think the Toronto media has been doing its job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Carver knows that in England, this level of incompetence by the refs would not be allowed and his frustration at having to endure it AND not having the hometown media support him (like they would in England) must be incredibly frustrating. And nobody is acknowledging it.
    Bang on Roogsy!

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    As for Cathal, when he does make a valid point, he does so really well.
    It's not that often, but he sure can drive the point home.

    His good articles are great, but in the minority of his output.

    The thread bashing the CSA a few months ago was brilliant, and the article on Sunday was too.
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    JC -- And we're playing at home...I think I've made my point. It's dead easy going on a website and looking for your questions to ask from supporters groups.

    MC -- John, I write the good, I write the bad.
    and which website would he be referring to?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachGT View Post
    Bang on Roogsy!
    I think to go a little further with this assessment....TO writers don't know anything about soccer or how vital refs consistency are. Whether that be a penalty kick or a 20-40 foot range infraction or how non-calls give another team a advantage on the counter attack.

    I've been a leafs fan, raps fan, jays fan and a TFC fan outside of Toronto all my life and have read a lot of the coverage because its the only connection I have to these teams. The real problem is we are in the "raps" early days where writers don't know the sport or understand it to the level that they need to so they write about results. When's the last time a player was given praise in the media without having scored or had an assist. These guys are glorified stats analysts and for them to is nothing more than finding words to fill around 1) the scoreline 2) who scored 3) where it was played to talk about the fans and 4) whether it was good or bad result for the team.

    Now, what in the proceeding analysis makes you know anything you didn't know than looking at the match tracker. I think Carver is frustrated but definelty deflecting the attention. The issue with these guys is that they won't bite one something they know is blatantly true. Being negative about a team helps sell papers and gets you noticed. It gives the "whats he going to say next" factor. There are few journalists that I pay attention to about post-game coverage. I prefer talking with you guys but the best post-game rap up is at The Score. Any other commentary during the week that I pay attention to is rumors about personnel. Other than that our journalists are terrible with few exceptions. And don't hold your breath for these journalists to be apologetic about it. A lot of them were assigned from other sports that they know.
    Last edited by DigzTFC!; 07-22-2008 at 09:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    MY problem with the media in this city...and I think maybe JC saw it too...is that while they are all too willing to shoot down a team that is stinking it up (which TFC is at the moment, no doubt)...they don't give credit where it's due. AND they don't back up the team when they need it.

    .
    I agree. I think it's because it's Toronto, the largest city in the country.

    If you're covering the Peterborough Petes you can write rah rah articles every day and the whole town will lap it up. Ditto the Swift Current Broncos. Or the Saskatchewan Roughriders or Winnipeg Bluebombers.

    But put a reporter in Toronto and suddenly they seem to feel like they have to be cutting edge investigating "journalists" since they're on the big stage. They need to uncover the dirty truth to prove their worth. They have to be impartial.

    I've already on numerous occaisions on this board stated I have problems with Carver's tactics. I think he was wrong here too. Still...
    Would it hurt someone to write about Steve Dipetro? Or the blown calls in the Shitcago game?

    Re-read the articles...when we suck...the writers go off on us (deservedly) directly. When we get screwed...they report on it indirectly (Carver said it should have been a penalty in Chicago...or Jim Brennan said Jeff Clarke dove).

    I'd like to see a reporter in Toronto stick their neck out and have a supporting opinion for once.

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    I completely agree with the last comment made by Roogsy on Morgan's Blog

    MY problem with the media in this city...and I think maybe JC saw it too...is that whiel they are all too willing to shoot down a team that is stinking it up (which TFC is at the moment, no doubt)...they don't give credit where it's due. AND they don't back up the team when they need it.
    What happened to that opportunity Carver gave the media where he practically BEGGED them to call out MLS and the Refs for costing us points? Bad refereeing is just as much a part of the game that needs analyzing as calling out Guevara for a poor game against San Jose, or our defence for dropping the ball against Chicago. And yet, not a single reporter, Campbell included, had the gonads to call out the refs. We NEEDED them to and they basically refused.
    So you know what? Good on Carver for reminding them that they need to show SOME support to the team as well. If they really want to "see the team in the playoffs" then they need to nack up our boys and make sure we aren't dropping points unfairly because of the refs. Now if we do it on our own, the media has every right to call out the coach and the players. But I am convinced we have been robbed of a good 4 or 5 points because of bad calls from the refs...and I can't remember a single instance this year where we have won a game because a ref blew a call in our favour. That is a BIG deal in my books and Campbell and the rest of the media have dropped the ball in this regard. Carver knows that in England, this level of incompetence by the refs would not be allowed and his frustration at having to endure it AND not having the hometown media support him (like they would in England) must be incredibly frustrating. And nobody is acknowledging it. Link
    This is EXACTLY why Carver went off on the MEDIA. This is something that the media MUST understand! He's coming from another country and challenged the media to bring this to light and they did NOTHING! The terrible refereeing needs PRESS to put pressure on the MLS to do some SERIOUS revamping! I for one can't stand the amount of blown calls! Yes ... Our team is in a slump ... But for the love of GOD something needs to be done regarding the refs as they have cost us dearly during this slump.

    Carver wanted to bring this to light and this is all Cathal Kelly brought up on the matter:

    If Carver needs to read in a newspaper that he's right, here it is: He's right. The refereeing is often atrocious. It veers from the nit-picky to near blind, with no consistency in between. It badly needs fixing. Yesterday, it was only subpar. link
    Cathal almost had it right with his follow-up:

    But the biggest call of the game – a 50-50 penalty awarded after Abdus Ibrahim was bundled over inside the area – went Toronto's way. Amado Guevara missed the game's subsequent golden opportunity. link
    This is the point CARVER wants to make ... Now Amado clearly missed a golden opportunity and this is where we can actually say ... "Yes ... We lost because we didn't finish" and NOT because of numerous blown calls by the ref.

    It's time for change ... Carver is clearly frustrated about it (just as much as every supporter on this board is frustrated about it - maybe more) and he has asked for the Media to shed some light on the ordeal to put pressure on the MLS, but it's in my opinion, that the media still doesn't know how to cover soccer in this country and this is why they haven't done anything about it!
    Last edited by TicTacTabarnack; 07-22-2008 at 02:07 PM.

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    I don't like he took a piece out of Morgan -- Morgan's always been extremely fair in his reporting. And I think quoting from that e-mail he got from the league guy was a MASSIVE mistake. It will no doubt get him fined and suspended.

    But, for the rest of the season . . . do you really think the refs are gonna be able to be 'impartial' in our games? You don't think they're gonna be out to get us now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachGT View Post
    The problem is, as a secondary sport in the city (despite what we would like, it is still not really in the mainstream if TV and other media rarely report anything except a result) the tough questions really don't come that often. Most of the sports reporters are primed to cover other sports. Few people, let alone reporters, have a long history and understanding of the sport here in Canada, unlike the media in other countries where the sport is number one.

    A case of that point is Carver's comments following the Vancouver game on July 1st. He said several times in the post game that he wouldn't comment about the officiating but would be interested to see what the media says about it. In the UK, Europe, or in any other soccer culture, the refereeing would have probably been called out by the media, especially the home media. But there was almost nothing in the local press about it in the days that followed - the story was Carver's anger post match and refusal to comment on the refereeing!

    If that was a leaf game, we'd hear no end of stories in the media of how the refing screwed the leafs.

    While Kelly's article is one of the few I've read from him that actually is half decent, Carver is right - the questions coming from the local media are coming from a group that is learning the sport as opposed to leading it. And as a coach, I can tell you that comments like that play on a team and prop up the opposition - I've used it and seen it used in other sports. Writing it is fair play, especially for a professional team, but when you're pressing to win, you look for every possible advantage.

    But the root cause is inconsistent officiating. If the coaches don't know what is going to be called, the players can't know either, and refing just skews the flow of play rather than enhancing the game.
    In my experience, sports reporting has mostly devolved into half-assed commentary; I've been at many press conferences over the years involving sportos who wouldn't know a tough question if it snuck up from behind and hip-checked them. The only time they're tough in this country is when someone's already spotted blood in the water via a leak or somethign, and then they feel safe to pile in.

    There's a pathetic, mewling kind of relationship between the press and teams in Canada, in which they trade off access to the locker room and easy quotes after a game in exchange for not crapping in their own bed, as it were. Very sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olegunner View Post
    I agree. I think it's because it's Toronto, the largest city in the country.

    If you're covering the Peterborough Petes you can write rah rah articles every day and the whole town will lap it up. Ditto the Swift Current Broncos. Or the Saskatchewan Roughriders or Winnipeg Bluebombers.

    But put a reporter in Toronto and suddenly they seem to feel like they have to be cutting edge investigating "journalists" since they're on the big stage. They need to uncover the dirty truth to prove their worth. They have to be impartial.

    I've already on numerous occaisions on this board stated I have problems with Carver's tactics. I think he was wrong here too. Still...
    Would it hurt someone to write about Steve Dipetro? Or the blown calls in the Shitcago game?

    Re-read the articles...when we suck...the writers go off on us (deservedly) directly. When we get screwed...they report on it indirectly (Carver said it should have been a penalty in Chicago...or Jim Brennan said Jeff Clarke dove).

    I'd like to see a reporter in Toronto stick their neck out and have a supporting opinion for once.
    Trust me when I say Rider fans don't just lap up "rah rah" articles all the time. We do right now, but that's because we're 4-0. We can also be the most critical of the Riders.

 

 

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