If Winter & BDK had stayed and Mariner was sacked...
i know it's hypothetical but it would be interesting to see where TFC would be today if instead of sacking Winter, Mariner was let go - Winter & BDK would have a much better understanding of the league and the football was interesting to watch even through frustrating losses.....I don't know, i'm just so spent this morning after last night and this endless talk of additions and boring play...
oh well, bring on the Red Bulls....
I didn't support his sacking during the 9 game dip .. and I still wonder if it's the right choice today. :/
Of course it was the wrong choice, have we ever made a right choice? It was painfully obvious we were progressing near the end of the losing streak and as soon as Mariner took over we were in a good place and he shat all over it.
I disagreed with Winter's firing then, and I will continue to disagree with it till the end. It was the most short sighted, impulse reaction I've ever seen. The issue with Winter wasn't his philosophy, it was his understanding of the league. That's something that would've come with time. And time, I'm sure, is all he needed. I can guarantee the cries for Nelsen to be fired will start coming in soon, if they haven't started already.
In this alternate universe I still have my season tickets, BMO fills up regularly, and we're singing songs that don't always go "allez-allez-allez" (or whatevs).
a ha ha heh he hoo.. ha
I agree with all of this.Originally Posted by TFC_Allez
Probably wouldn't have bothered me as much (the sacking of Winter), if we didn't go from him to clown shorts. Going from a man who was trying to turn us into a professional club, with a philosophy, total class and a style of football Canadian players badly need to be playing.....to a god damn drunk who just wanted to hoof it up and see what happens.
Winter is the only TFC manager who's ever earned my respect.
I think soccer will be at least more enjoyable to watch, but not sure if it will win championships in the end though. I am personally fan of what Winter was trying to accomplish on the field and off the field, but it would have taking a long time to see his vision of building this club come through. I am sure fanbase here don't care about style of play since they're willing to support guys like Mariner (just look last year thread on this forum when Mariner first took over to see what I am talking about) as long they win games to make it the playoffs (even winning CCL doesn't mean anything for most of the fanbase here).
In general I'm against hiring a head coach with zero head coaching experience - but that's just how we do things here at TFC. So we have to see these rookies through their beginner mistakes. Problem is we fire them before they get experienced. If you're going to hire rookie head coaches then at the very least allow them more time to figure things out. OR hire experience. But again, I know that's not what we do here.
Ya, but from what I recall, Winter had lost the locker room, which made replacing him all but a necessity.
I supported the firing when you go through a full year with 3 transfer windows and starting 0-9 the next year. Mariner should have gone too.
which is when the Silva, Soolsma and Aceval (?) got into a punchup in Houston.
The players didn't want to behave like professionals is all.
How many of them are still here ?
What a fickle bunch we have here. People were screaming for Winter to be gone, showing photoshopped pictures of him picking his nose in front of disasters and now people are regretting what they asked for?
Tom Anselmi's greatest failing is that he listened to the fans too much. We got JDG. We got a mix of incompatible different types of football, all pandering to different groups in the ALL FOR ONE contingent.
Sheesh. I hope Payne stays the course and ignores all of the board chatter.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
That actually happened after he was fired. Think it was a result of one of Mariner's pub team building sessions.
Yeah, knee-jerk decision making is the biggest failing of this team.
Yes, it's true. Anselmi was able to go for years talking about all kinds of plans and never dealing with the fact that TFC had to beat the other MLS teams. There must have been laughter in the boardroom when they realized they could actually sell the idea of, "transforming the sport in Canada."
I hope you're right that Payne stays the course and for the first time in our history we try to build a team that can compete in MLS.
Agree.
However, I think it's the media who listen to fans who then write stories calling for heads to roll.
Toronto media are a bunch of pidgeons.
That's what I mean. The players resented being told to wear ties and meet curfews, etc. They didn't want to behave like professionals.
As soon as Winter was fired, who's-yer-new-best-friend let's them off-leash and look what happened.
And I bet it was only the North American lads that resented Winter.
Ahh, I see. Yeah, the horror of having to represent TFC with pride. The poor lads were subjected to totalitarianism.
Canadian players benefit from Winter era the most. So I have a hard time believing they resented Winter unlike American players like Alan Gordon
This discussion is less then useful.
Agree with all of you guys. I'm very vocal that it was the wrong move, then and now.
Even if you were going to let Winter and BDK go why replace them with someone who is the total opposite of their philosophy? Why not bring someone in who could continue to build from the foundation that they laid both with the senior roster and the academy?
The way that FO handled Winter/BDK and the subsequent hirings proved to me that FO was never really on board with the philosophy that they were selling to us. FO didn't actually care about building through the academy and in the "total football" system, it was just a new marketing strategy.
They had the right people in place to get the club running to produce serviceable players on a consistent basis and they tossed them out to go back to the same crap they had in the first 4 years of existence.
It was this, more than any other moment in their history, that disappointed me and is the single biggest reason why I care less and less about the team everyday.
Wasn't JDG one of his biggest critics ?
I don't think those responding ever asked for him to be gone. We're the same ones who were pissed when it happened.
#Thingsyoudowhenyouloseto10manChivas
Well said.
Since Winter has left, I lost a lot of my passion and fire for this team. Now I just go to games to enjoy nice weather and drinks with friends. Hopefully we get back to attacking soccer instead of this defensive soccer crap that Nelsen got us playing.
That's an interesting assumption. If it's true it's tough to see a future for soccer in North America. In every other sport America can produce the best athletes in the world - and they often wear ties and meet curfews. And yet North American soccer players can't seem to do it.
MLS was a risky investment for the people who put up the money and it's yet to be seen if it will actually work.
I wasn't against Winter being fired. He didn't do the business and deserved to go. I was against completely blowing up the whole thing instead of staying the course with another coach continuing to implement the philosophy.
The question in my mind with Winter & DeKlerk though is where would they have taken us had they been allowed to actually operate without all the meddling that was going on at the time?
I wouldn't have minded De Klerk taking over. Loved that guy's passion.
Whether people want to care about the CCL or not, they (Winter/BDK) accomplished something in that tournament. I would argue reaching the CCL semifinals and giving Santos a go is more impressive than qualifying for the MLS playoffs.
I don't know what they could have ever done, could have been a trophy, could have been nothing more. Cannot deny that something DID actually happen. Cannot deny one of the best, if not the best moment as a TFC fan (QF vs LA), happened thanks to those men.
The away win in Dallas was one of my all-time highlights for this team (there haven't been many).
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
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