long term injury!Originally Posted by McCartney
long term injury!
There have never been truer words spoken on this site. Guys and girls just sit back and enjoy the ride. Within in the next couple of weeks this team will look closer to what they (Payne & Nelson) invisioned. Unfortunately, it will probaby be too late to make any kind of run, but we should be a lot more exciting an attacking team going forward
something something all the logical people are long gone.
If you're still here it's not because you've come to the conclusion that TFC is a fantastic way to spend your time, energy, and money.
Truth.
The next couple weeks will be fun.
The problem, is that some people have been sitting, for a while. And then they decided to just not show up to the games anymore.
Not as much fun as assuming the worst.
(But seriously, this doesn't feel good, we didn't bring in Payne so that they could copy the uniquely worst elements of the Mo/Preki era.)
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Copy the worst elements from the Dark Ages? So far it looks like the dawn of Renaissance to me...
I'll reserve my judgement until end of transfer window.
I think if we'd actually "traded" Silva, nobody would have any issue with waiting for the other shoe to drop.
It's the vague sense I have, born from hard earned experience that we all have, that this was no "trade", but instead reflects poor cap management. That a valuable piece was given away bcause it was literally the only thing we could do to accomplish what Payne/Nelsen wants. With the requisite dose of demonizing a very interesting player that happens to have had the bad luck to have been found by the previous regime.
I get that this isn't 2010, Payne is no Preki, Silva is probably not Cronin, and our reward for this is not going to be Mista, so I agree, let's wait.
But this doesn't reek of foresight or intelligent roster/cap mgmt, I'll tell you that. A chunk of the cap was blown on loans for Bostock/Ephraim/Earnshaw. Everyone thought those were free looks. Very few of us were critical of those (I was one). How do those moves look now?
Last edited by ensco; 07-09-2013 at 02:03 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Ya, but it's league rules, salary caps, and soccer politics more likely than anything else holding up... this window stuff is always at a snail's pace, but not for lack of effort on the FO's part. If years of futility get transformed in a single transfer window, I will gladly wait 30 days for that to happen. I hope others will to
EDIT: Ok, maybe not gladly...
Direct trade will require something of similar value. What's the point of trading Silva for similar value in a player swap within MLS. I see it as cap relief + additional mystic allocation money for "Import". Payne and Nelson were handed a steaming pile of crap of a cap situation. They've done well to clean it up as much as possible, started with trades in draft for allocation money and netting two Canadian kids.
It doesn't reek shortsightedness or bad roster/cap management, by current regime, I'll tell you that. =P
Wait and see.
Take a look at my updated post...
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
noted, but for some reason, i thought it was next to free look that is the cap impact has expiration. had it been full signing, we'd still be on the book even if we trade/waive after july 1st.
Ensco is pretty much getting at what I'm feeling.
Its not that this is a bad move, it's a bad move in context when you read about how it happened and why. It's happened before, to expect it to go differently would sort of be the definition of insanity, but it's not the exact same so....
There is a reason why MLS teams almost never do loans. The three of them probably cost $300-400K for the half season, even though they weren't signed.
They did the loans. Fine. My point is, you can't do everything. But Payne appears to be trying to do everything by selling the future. First on draft day, now this. (The Bocanegra deal was smart btw, the only example of what he should be trying to do imho).
The idea of giving away young unproven talent making virtually nothing, for allocation, is the worst. effing. thing. ever. Nobody does that. For a good reason.
I feel like the following ticker should run at the bottom of the TFC website:
win now win now win now mortgage the future mortgage the future mortgage the future
(oh by the way I reserve the right to forget I ever said any of the above if I really like what Payne/Nelsen do here, and would ask all of your forbearance in this forgetfulness, should this scenario arise.)
Last edited by ensco; 07-09-2013 at 02:16 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
But Silva isn't a young player anymore. You guys are acting like we traded away second coming of Messi with your comments.
You guys need to realize there's better younger talent out there including some of younger players in our team (Osorio and Laba) who have higher ceiling than Silva.
Right now, this team is very young with no veteran quality players at all. Having couple of veteran players leading this young club is what we need right now. Player like Forlan is what we need on the field and off the field right now.
Maybe it's me but I just don't see how Silva is all of a sudden the answer to all problems in the future. Yeah, he could go on to be a Cronin or he go on to be a White. One good stretch on a really shite team under the guidance of a bad manager is nothing to go by. If he were tearing it up this year it'd be different but he has mostly looked piss poor out there all year.
And if we are speaking of the unknown future then I would say Urruti > Silva.
I think we have been shell shocked into pessimism by previous regime and MLSE pre Payne/Leiweke era. In the past, that's the case, mortgage future for win now. That's what's got us into this sad state of affairs.
Way too much bad taste.
Costing 300-400K for the half season is the price to pay to not cost 300-400K for the entire season. That's like paying insurance to have flexibility to either sign them or get someone else that may work.
I still rate the current management miles better on how they handle cap and roster.
It depends on who they get with these allocation, still have to find out after transfer window is over to judge.
EDIT: just to add, this is not NHL where draft picks means way more... I'd take tangible improvements piece by piece than overrate young players (which Silva is not) and hold on to them and see their value diminish and become complete sunk cost
Last edited by pekduck; 07-09-2013 at 02:22 PM.
The FO is night and day difference from those days, it is a lot more professional with the exception of Earl (I need to find out his secret, he screwed up time after time and yet still has a job) The previous management set ups prior to Payne ariving were the most dysfunctional I have ever seen or heard about. The back stabbing, undermining and utter lies told by the majority of the FO (not dutch by the way) was incredible. I for one am happy to see that it has been gutted and hope that this transfer window is finally the begining of the New TFC, one which we can be proud of on and off the pitch.
I'm not freaking out about it. I'm just concerned about the "type" of player we've given up on. Lambe, Russell, Hall, Braun, Brockie, Ecks, O'Dea all remain.
I'll be happy to see the reinforcements...especially if they are who we think they are. I'd just like to see us try and work with players who's main asset is technical ability, vision and touch on the ball.
It's not the fact that they're making trades that worries me. It's the player they traded.
I am not upset about the trading of Silva, just that they don't have guys lined up to bring in before the next 2 games - RN's comments about being thin for the next 1 or 2 games.
Did I miss something? Did he change his year of birth since we drafted him?
He was projected by all pre the 2012 draft to go 3rd, 4th or 5th. Only 18 months ago. His age was reflected in that view.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I stand corrected. The dumping of Cronin to make room for Mista is nowhere near the top of the list of "uniquely bad practices" of prior TFC managements!
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
True but at this stage in his development you can find younger internationals from other leagues that will be light years ahead of Silva right now. I figure that is what the plan is. Now if they end up getting Urruti, Forlan, and say Alex Lopez this summer then I will have forgotten that we ever had some scrub named Silva on our squad.
Yeah, MLS draft is where greatest soccer players are coming from.
What a great measuring stick there to use.
I think most would agree that, money aside, you can get better, younger players from South/Central America than you can from the draft. I hope that's the plan here.
I'd love to see those guys too but it doesn't change the fact that we can't just fill our roster with young internationals. We HAVE to have some domestics. And my argument is why not try and use the domestics we have that have some skill, instead of the Convey's and Halls of the league?
Nobody is saying the greatest players come from the draft but we need domestics. Plain and simple. We traded away a domestic player that actually showed some skill and vision and are likely to replace him with a couple of internationals while leaving behind complete turd players. LOLYeah, MLS draft is where greatest soccer players are coming from.
What a great measuring stick there to use.
And another irritating thing is that some people are shitting on the player Silva was now that he's gone. Yes..he's up and down but most MLS players are. Without him our captain doesn't score his first goal for the club last week.
This comment here? If I had the time I'd dig up 10 just like it from the "Cronin traded" thread in 2010.Yeah, MLS draft is where greatest soccer players are coming from.
What a great measuring stick there to use.
It's hit and miss. About half the guys in the top 10 turn into something valuable. Anyways, I think Silva has shown enough that he should have been worth more than an allocation. The problem is the timing. Allocation is the scarce commodity in July, for wealthier teams.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Unfortunately, somethings don't ended up going exactly as planned, it is not their fault for that. I deal with South American business all the time and it is a pain in the ass you think everything is done and at the last minute they want more money or some other concessions.
Truer words have not been spoken. I don't even want to think about what went on in the past. Still a ton of room for improvement right now, but I do feel there is structure and consultation going on with the moves.
Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus
Twitter: @RPBPhil
That is probably the worst trade ever made by this team... But that was all on Preki that cunt and the red headed drunk for listening to himI stand corrected. The dumping of Cronin to make room for Mista is nowhere near the top of the list of "uniquely bad practices" of prior TFC managements!
One had nothing to do with the other.
Mo set this team down the path that it has been on and only now we finally have people who know what they are doing
Last edited by Section 117; 07-09-2013 at 02:49 PM.
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