Matchday 18: Toronto at Sporting Kansas City, Sat 13 July, 8pm

[Ivy]

Silva was highly touted and many in this forum had very high expectations given his talent and skill level. His game went south because he was not used properly and this was Nelsen's doing. His confidence shot he faded just like others before him who have landed here (so manyexamples since 2007). When he gets his game back he may very well become an mls all star. The mediocre coaching, training and high turnover will always affect talented players more than the bums on the team- no cohesion, no creativity and hoof ball are features we have endured. I would rather have 11 silvas on my team and let them play together for an entire season than the crap we have now.

I don't disagree that Silva had talent. But skillful players adjust with the team, not the team for the individual player. Silva had no role under Nelsen, and arguing if that's a good or bad thing is premature. I have no doubts that Silva will be successful in DC if he's in his natural role

[DoubleUp]

I'm not sure where you're getting the 2011 thing from, but that's not true...but regardless if I was following them from 2007 or 2013, you need to be realistic. DC made playoffs last year, this year they're last place. The bar is set unachievably high on the CURRENT management. They're doing the best they can with what they have - its our choice if we want to wait and see, or prematurely judge all their moves.
and no, I don't think Silva had a single good game this year. In fact, the only good pass I remember him making was when he set up Wiedeman at Amway.

Clearly the assist for Osario's first goal never happened.


Trying to defend failure and incompetence(mainly in the football department) with fallacy, only leads to more failure and incompetence.

But ultimately it doesnt matter because he is gone now.

[v00d00daddy]

I'm not sure where you're getting the 2011 thing from, but that's not true...but regardless if I was following them from 2007 or 2013, you need to be realistic. DC made playoffs last year, this year they're last place. The bar is set unachievably high on the CURRENT management. They're doing the best they can with what they have - its our choice if we want to wait and see, or prematurely judge all their moves.
and no, I don't think Silva had a single good game this year. In fact, the only good pass I remember him making was when he set up Wiedeman at Amway.

My apologies. I thought I remembered you mentioning the 2011 thing. Must have been someone else. My bad. Sorry for that.

As for Silva you have a short memory:

[Ivy]

*sigh*... I miss that warm fuzzy feeling...

[Oldtimer]

Which coach would you hire? Based on the needs of our club (no success since inception) I'd hire a coach who is actually a coach. Not a player.
Name me a team that was able to get consistent results during rebuild? Nobody is asking for consistent results. We've won 2 games in 18. SOME results here and there would be nice.

You would have totally missed out on RSL, their MLS Cup win, and their CCL final. Everyone is new at one point.

Remember, Payne brought Bruce Arena into the league. While Bruce Arena had coached college, he had never done anything even approaching the MLS level.

I would prefer an experienced coach, but I don't believe anyone with experience would dream to come here and have their career destroyed when TFC has historically chewed through more than one coach per season.

Anyway, it's impossible to judge Nelsen now, you have to wait until after the rebuild is done.

People here still had hopes for this season, that is the problem, and why people are so upset. We needed to realize after the catastrophic cap situation Mr. Shorty Pants left TFC in there was no hope for this season.

As far as results, RSL was absolutely horrible while they were doing their rebuild. So was KC. Why should TFC be different?

It's different from previous times, Payne has the MLS Cup rings to prove his ability, Anselmi has none.

[v00d00daddy]

You would have totally missed out on RSL, their MLS Cup win, and their CCL final. Everyone is new at one point.

Remember, Payne brought Bruce Arena into the league. While Bruce Arena had coached college, he had never done anything even approaching the MLS level.

I would prefer an experienced coach, but I don't believe anyone with experience would dream to come here and have their career destroyed when TFC has historically chewed through more than one coach per season.

Anyway, it's impossible to judge Nelsen now, you have to wait until after the rebuild is done.

People here still had hopes for this season, that is the problem, and why people are so upset. We needed to realize after the catastrophic cap situation Mr. Shorty Pants left TFC in there was no hope for this season.

As far as results, RSL was absolutely horrible while they were doing their rebuild. So was KC. Why should TFC be different?

It's different from previous times, Payne has the MLS Cup rings to prove his ability, Anselmi has none.

Kreis is the only example everybody uses. I get it. It CAN work. But Kreis is by no means the rule, he's the exception. Not to mention that Kreis went from an active player in MLS right in to coaching in MLS.

Nelsen had the same amount of coaching experience as Kreis (zero) but Nelsen was out of MLS for 8 years. The last time he was in MLS TFC didn't even exist.

And yes you can judge Nelsen right now. It's not a final judgement but he has to be held accountable for his choices and decisions. It's not a complete picture but he doesn't get to do whatever the fuck he wants and we just say "wait until the rebuild is done'. To me that's unacceptable.

As for hopes this season....if Nelsen would keep his mouth shut about the playoffs and the wonderful performances of the team and players maybe people could temper their expectations a little more. It seems like the only way to temper expectations is to have none. Zero. Well I can't do that. Why would I even watch a game if I expected nothing? What's the purpose of that? It's like going to a game or turning on the television and then closing your eyes. LOL

When was RSL's "rebuild"? They came in to the league in 2005 and had 5 wins in 2005, 10 in 2006 and only 6 in 2007. So in essence, they were terrible as an expanson team. Every other year they've put up 10 wins or better. 10 wins is the best TFC have ever put up (2009). In short, RSL is not even close to ever being as bad as we have been, for as long as we have been.

Since 2005 KC has put up one season of less than 10 wins. So if they had to rebuild it's never been as bad as us. As such, they can afford to tweak less than us.

TFC is different because we are the worst franchise in the short history of this league, and using other teams in the league as an example is okay to do but to suggest that what worked for them, despite them never being as bad as us, will work for us is not comforting.

And I believe in Payne, I just won't give him carte blanche. He tells me he's not going to sign over the hill EPL cast offs then he shouldn't do it. I don't care that Earnshaw isn't a DP. I have no idea how much money he's making and I don't think he deserved and extension to the end of this year (or beyond). With each game he's proving me right. Payne is also spouting off about playoffs and junk like that. There is no need for it. All that being said, I have a lot more faith in Payne then I do in Nelsen. We shall see.

Oh....and if this club can't attract ANY coach with experience because they've been so bad (which I don't buy for a second) then they should just fold up the club. It's absurd to think that the only person on this planet that would coach this team is Nelsen. Nelsen is here because he's Payne's choice. If Nelsen fails it will be because he sucked and because Payne chose him. I'm not about to start swallowing the excuse that we have to endure a poor coach because nobody else will do it.

[TFC Cityboy]

I no longer base my weekends around TFC. Spent last night around a pool with the wife's cousins, knocking back some drinks, having a laugh, knowing full well a very short-handed TFC would get its ass kicked at SKC. But it's ok. We were short anyway plus add in the Gold Cup lads, and we had no chance. D O'D going is fine- his salary was way too high (another example of previous mismanagement) and we have some cover there with Boss and Doneil. I can see Frei and Koevs shipping out soon as the cap is cleared and we bring players in.
I would compare this process to treatment for a serious illness. You know it has to get worse before it can better. BUT KP and RN HAVE to get the right players in. We cannot be in this position next season.To do so will leave the patient dead on the table.

I see what the club is trying to do, and support it still, but there is little margin for error in the next stage.

[tfcleeds]

I would compare this process to treatment for a serious illness. You know it has to get worse before it can better. BUT KP and RN HAVE to get the right players in. We cannot be in this position next season.To do so will leave the patient dead on the table.

I see what the club is trying to do, and support it still, but there is little margin for error in the next stage.

I even seem to recall KP offering a similar sentiment earlier in the season. But I wish he and RN would can all this talk about still having a shot at the playoffs. They aren't fooling anybody. And even if we did have a chance, I think last night put that notion out of its misery once and for all.

[Oldtimer]

I'm not about to start swallowing the excuse that we have to endure a poor coach because nobody else will do it.

Well, since you've stated that you won't accept it, I guess we'll have to accept that's your unmovable position, won't we?

I think we'll just have to disagree there. I have very good reasons for my position.

[Voodooman]

Let's just say the game wasn't the best when the Game in 6 is showing a nice slide tackle by Russell...and a replay of it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

In the spirit of loopy conjecture.

We transfer O'Dea to Shakhtar Donetsk.

In return Donestk sends out on loan, http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/alan...er_104505.html to Internacional (5 days ago)

Who plays at Internacional again? Forlan you say? Well imagine that.

That's an amazing coincidence...

Unfortunate that we didn't have a player coming here yet to fill the gap in the roster for this particular game against such a strong opponent.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Silva was highly touted and many in this forum had very high expectations given his talent and skill level. His game went south because he was not used properly and this was Nelsen's doing. His confidence shot he faded just like others before him who have landed here (so manyexamples since 2007). When he gets his game back he may very well become an mls all star. The mediocre coaching, training and high turnover will always affect talented players more than the bums on the team- no cohesion, no creativity and hoof ball are features we have endured. I would rather have 11 silvas on my team and let them play together for an entire season than the crap we have now.

You just made the argument against.

If you had 11 Silvas who would service him the way he needed? Not many are saying Silva didn't have potential worth but it wasn't a position this team could wait on. The team still hasn't made a purchase with the Silva money yet. The knives stay in the block for now.

[trane]

I think we were actually on an upwards trajectory up until the end of Year 3. Most people would point to the 5-0 loss in New York as the true turning point for this franchise when it began its real downward spiral. There was still a lot of interest surrounding the club, the stands at BMO were still relatively full, and we were on the cusp of making the playoffs. Once Mo and his old KC Wiz buddy Preki got together, that was really the beginning of the end. At least, that's the way I see it.

I think you may be right, I think it was after the New York game that I started thinking there is something fundamentally wrong with this club, and yes we had some home in year four, but since then it has been a spiral.

[tfcleeds]

Been thinking about this since Saturday night. Out of all the ignominious losses this club has endured in its 7 year existence, this has to rank right up there among the very worst. Top 3 certainly. We were never in this from the kickoff. Players looked beaten before they even stepped on the pitch. Other than Brockie's double chance, I can't think of a single positive thing we did all match. Although I don't expect much better result-wise against Chivas, I fully expect a much better effort.