2013 Salary Cap Roster Discussion

[DichioTFC]

After being in absentia for a bit, I wanted to start looking forward to 2013 and see what improvements can be made to this team. After listening to the year end interviews, it would appears the players and PM are in agreement that we're close to making the playoffs, which I personally agree. Obviously there's some roster attrition but there's enough talent for some starting spots and some depth that we can use moving forward. No need for an absolute overhaul, again, in my opinion and apparently in PM's opinion as well. So that leaves the question, where do we go from here?

Using the most recent salary information from the Players Union - http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/Octo... - By Club.pdf - these are the salaries of players currently on the roster, organized by biggest salary cap hit (the furthest column is their actual salary for 2012 with annualized bonuses included).

Roster No.	Last Name	First Name	Position	Cap Hit	Total Salary
1	Frings	Torsten	M	$367,000	$2,413,667
2	Hassli	Eric	F	$367,000	$790,000
3	Koevermans	Danny	F	$367,000	$1,563,323
4	O'Dea	Darren	D	$330,000	$436,250
5	Califf	Danny	D	$275,000	$275,000
6	Eckersley	Richard	D	$210,000	$390,000
7	Frei	Stefan	GK	$120,000	$175,000
8	Braun	Justin	F	$102,000	$104,500
9	Hall	Jeremy	D	$100,000	$149,000
10	Dunfield	Terry	M	$86,000	$86,000
11	Wiedeman	Andrew	F	$80,000	$123,000
12	Lambe	Reggie	M	$60,000	$62,500
13	Plata	Joao	F	$50,000	$50,000
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21	Henry	Doneil	D	$44,100	$45,100
22	Morgan	Ashtone	D	$44,000	$56,000
23	Silva	Luis	M	$44,000	$79,000
24	Amarikwa	Quincy	F	$44,000	$44,100
25	Bendik	Joe	GK	$44,000	$44,000
26	Emory	Logan	D	$44,000	$44,000
27	Stinson	Matthew	M	$44,000	$44,000
28	Roberts	Quillan	GK	$33,750	$33,750
29	cap space			-$35,000
30	cap space			-$35,000

UPDATE 12/15/12: Included Danny Califf at his 2012 salary levels (major assumption throughout my analysis is that allocation money increases and renegotiated contracts with Hall, Wiedeman and Califf will cancel out salary increases for Morgan and Henry).

MLS rules indicate a roster can have 30 players, but players 1-20 must be no more than $2.8 million (I'll be assuming $3 million, as Yohan notes below with salary cap increase and allocation money), while players 21-30 are paid league minimum salary (with a lot of exceptions, but generally speaking that's the trend - with one notable exception that we can have $70K in roster allocation if we have a roster of no more than 28 - hence roster spots 29 & 30 are negative money). Assuming all other things remain constant (like player salaries - which wont, but let's assume anyways) and ignoring extra allocation money we might have, I've created two groups. The first group are 12 players who are above the league minimum and would be in our 1-20 if they stick around (bottom spots taken up by a league minimum salaries as they arrive). The bottom group of 21-30 are being paid the league minimum so they do not have to be considered when calculating cap space.

The cumulative salary of the 13 players in the 1-20 group are $2.52 million, leaving around $480K remaining under the cap. If we add the extra $70K in roster allocation (assuming we only have a roster of 28), this leaves us with approx $550K. Assuming we keep the players above and stick to a roster of 28, that leaves $78.5K on average for each of the 7 remaining roster spots.

This leads to several questions: Is this a good enough core to start 2013? What positions do we need to address and how much should we spend? Can we afford to fill the roster with quality players and have the necessary depth to cover for Frings & Koevermans? Would it make financial sense to trade away a forward (EDIT: Resolved - RJ9 traded away, cheaper Justin Braun brought in)? Are eight new players enough to improve this squad in 2013? Are there other cost efficiencies that can be made on this roster? I've intended for this thread to be more about a salary cap discussion than about player movement, so if we can stick to that topic (or at least talk about player movement in the context of salary cap discussions) before thread derailment, I would appreciate it

[Yohan]

I think the salary cap is at 2.95 mil next season. Plus 'you suck' allocation money, plus whatever allocation left over from this season, Mariner actually has somewhat decent amount of wiggle room for roster.

[DichioTFC]

My thoughts about all this - I'm surprised we have a lot of allocation money left over to make some player movements. We're not stuck with crappy long-term contracts. I thought Wiedeman should go as well, as his contribution doesn't justify his salary hit. Also, I would be willing to trade away Hassli if we can get a better DP from overseas to come in, but I would be fine if we started the season with him. Still, keeping Hassli and not resigning Wiedeman, we're looking at $650K of space for 7 players. This is how our starting 2013 lineup looks to me, including depth and missing starters:


------------Johnson----Koevermans--------
----------(Amarikwa)-------????-----------
--------Silva------Avila---------Plata------
---------????----(Dunfield)-----(Lambe)----
-----------------------Frings---------------
-----------------------?????---------------
---Morgan---Henry---O'Dea----Eckersley---
----????-----?????---(Dicoy)----?????------
----------------Frei------------------------
---------------(Kocic)----------------------

Depth: Lindsay, Cordon, Stinson, Roberts

Those six question marks are how I would classify our needs. Also, we'll need to add to our depth, so a hardworking under-appreciated player would fit with our depth well. I would allocate most of our resources, $400K or so, to shoring up our backline. Of course we'll get someone in the draft, but we'll need some experience in case we have another injury crisis.

[T-boy]

Going through the roster, I'd honestly only keep 10 of the players! If I was playing Football Manager I would start getting rid of all the other players asap!

[DichioTFC]

I think the salary cap is at 2.95 mil next season. Plus 'you suck' allocation money, plus whatever allocation left over from this season, Mariner actually has somewhat decent amount of wiggle room for roster.

I figured the cap was going up, just wasn't sure how much. I figured the cap combined with 'you suck' money would be offset by player raises anyways, so I didn't make any attempt to calculate it..

[T-boy]

I figured the cap was going up, just wasn't sure how much. I figured the cap combined with 'you suck' money would be offset by player raises anyways, so I didn't make any attempt to calculate it..

Didn't TFC get more allocation money this last season due to being in the champions league? So even with a little more money coming from being last overall, we will probably get LESS allocation next season, no?

[DichioTFC]

Didn't TFC get more allocation money this last season due to being in the champions league? So even with a little more money coming from being last overall, we will probably get LESS allocation next season, no?

Any allocation money we received last year was a bonus above and beyond what we were already entitled to under MLS rules. Next year will be no different. This is how MLS gives allocation money:

Allocation money is a resource available to clubs in addition to their respective salary budgets. A club may receive allocation money for:

1. failure to qualify for the MLS Cup Playoffs;
2. the transfer of a player to a club outside of MLS for value;
3. expansion status;
4. qualification for the CONCACAF Champions League;
5. trading in up to two Off-Budget roster spots;
6. funds from purchased third designated player roster spots.

1 and 4 are obvious (we qualified for 2012 CCL). 5 is a possibility if we had 28 players on our roster (which I think we did at times, but others may be more sure). Also, with trades comes allocation money - I would assume we received quite a bit following the JDG trade. How much we have incoming / outgoing through trades is anyone's guess. But I'm sure that the allocation money will be the same in 2013, if not a bit more.

Semantics and minutia aside, assuming we have $570K of allocation is a good starting point.

[Yohan]

My take on this

Name/Position/Age/Salary (base salary was used, not guaranteed compensation)

KEEP
Quincy Amarikwa/F/25/44k
-Small, but pacy striker who works his butt off but doesn't add much. Worth keeping due to his league min wage, and he is a decent energy guy for late sub.

Eric Avila/M/24/125k
-One of few technically gifted players on the roster. Avila is a pure AM who has good passing and dribbling skills (see his goal when he broke Jamison Olave's ankles vs RSL) who can be a key piece on any MLS team. His weakness is his small stature, and is not very good at defending which is required in Mariner's 4-4-2 system. However, at 24, he's got a lot of years left in MLS and if given starter mins, I'm sure he can overcome his consistency, if he plays under a manager who believes in him. (Mariner doesn't)

Terry Dunfield/M/30/86k
-The team MVP had one of stronger performances in a team that had a terrible season. Tenacious DM who will work his ass off given his limited talents, Dunfield scored some key goals (incl last min winner vs Vancouver) and provided leadership on the field and in the locker room when very few of that was to be found. His positioning and reading of the game is suspect, and under pressure, he takes the safe back passes one too many times, however, Dunfield is an underrated passer who can hit a running man if given a bit of space. For 86k, Dunfield is a good depth player in MLS and an occassional starter.

Richard Eckersley/D/23/210k
-The raging ginger proved to be one of better players on the roster. As much as he hates playing CB, I think his time on CB may have improved his game with better positioning, used his pace well and learning to restrain his some times reckless runs. Some question his high salary relative to other MLS fullbacks, but I think at 23, with a lot of upside, Ecks should be a key part of TFC defence next year at RB, to eventually build a consistent backline with chemistry that all strong MLS teams have, and only playing together can build.

Logan Emory/D/24/44k
-Emory is a depth defender who can play CB/LB. He has been criticized for poor games, however, Emory is still learning the game. He needs a commanding CB partner to keep him on track, but he has an underrated sharp, short passing ability (his long passes are another story) and has ok pace. At his salary and being versatile left footer, he's worth keeping for depth next season.

Stefan Frei/GK/26/120k
-Injured for most of the season, with only one game in CCL vs LA in March, Frei should be fully healthy come pre season. One of best shot stoppers in the league. Needs to work on crosses and commanding the box. Current vice captain of the team is the longest serving member, and he will get the chance to prove himself during pre season if not just to increase his trade value if Mariner choose to go another direction.

Eric Hassli/F/31/550k
-Hassli is a passionate player who has all the technical ability to succeed in MLS, but just has problem doing it on consistent basis. Big and strong, he can hold off even the most physical MLS CBs. Has soft first touch with cannon of a right foot and a threat with long strikes. He has scored 3 goals and chipped in 2 assists in 7 games he played for TFC since joining mid season. But injury ridden and with questionable consistency, I would like Hassli to come back at about 250k, but not at DP salary.

Doneil Henry/D/19/44k
-One of bright prospects in TFC, Henry has improved his game, adding being an occassionally adequate RB to his repetoire. Has decent physical stature to play with most physical MLS strikers, he now needs to add consistency and mentally being aware at all times to his game. Is a good depth CB for now, and will only grow if he gets the mins he needs in games.

Ryan Johnson/F/M/29/138k
-A tough year for Ryan Johnson who at times showed flashes of class (his goal vs Seattle and NY), but got bitten by Chad Barrett syndrome sometimes missing the easiest of chances. Has the physical tools to play in MLS, but he gets easily frustrated and be taken out of a game. Is a starter for now, but he really is a 3rd striker on most MLS teams.

Milos Kocic/GK/27/44k
-Had a decent year before contract dispute and starting a family took his game mentally off line. Proved to be able starting keeper on most MLS teams, with above average shot stopping ability and decent ability to command the box. He really deserves a raise, and either he gets a raise to about 80k and fight for starting spot in Toronto, or be traded to another team so that he can start fresh.

Danny Koevermans/F/33/1.115k
-One of most lethal finishers to ever play in MLS, he has scored 17 goals in 26 appearances since joining TFC. Has issues with fitness and injury, and a huge question at his age, whether he will still have the ability to play in MLS next season after coming back from a serious injury. TFC will be hoping that the team is competitive enough to stay in the play off races so that when Koevermans comes back probably mid season fully fit, he will bang in the goals again.

Reggie Lambe/M/21/60k
-Lambe finally found a home in Toronto, getting consistent mins. A tricky winger with flashes of good technique, Lambe is only 21 and is still learning his trade. Has ability to be a starter in MLS, if he can work on his consistency. At 60k, he's worth keeping around, esp since TFC does not have many legit wingers at the moment.

Nicholas Lindsay/M/20/44k
-Finally fully recovered after a horrific accident that took 2 years to recover, Lindsay is an exciting winger who has speed and crossing ability to stretch defences. He should be fighting for depth mins next pre season.

Ashtone Morgan/D/21/44k
-Cemented his place as a legit LB in MLS. Good pace, making excellent overlapping runs. Tenacious in defence, but questionable positioning at times. Needs to work on his crossing to be more complete MLS fullback.

Darren O'Dea/D/25/330k
-A tough year for O'Dea who joined the team mid season and did not fully play to the ability he has. A commanding centreback that TFC lacked since joining the league, O'Dea is a current Irish international who can marshall the defence and provide leadership ability. If he stays, along with a decent MLS CB as a partner and Morgan and Ecks at fullback, TFC may finally have that consistent backline key to success in MLS.

Joao Plata/F/M/20/50k
-A fan favourite, Plata fell out with TFC FO and got sent on loan to LDU Quito making limited appearance. Pace winger with decent dribbling ability, Plata's biggest obstacle is his small physique and one dimensional play, esp inability to play adequate defence in a 4-4-2 system. If he can add a little more to his game, he would be worth keeping in MLS. But remains to be seen whether Plata will even be back in Toronto for pre season and whether he has mental game to play. But at 50k, he'd still be worth keeping for depth.

Quillan Roberts/GK/18/44k
-Young GK prospect who I think is a mistake bringing up from academy. Needs game time somewhere.

Luis Silva/M/23/44k
-Silva had a good rookie season, with 5 goals and 5 assists in league play. More of a trequista in the mold of Totti than second striker or attacking midfielder, Silva has good awareness in final third of the pitch with decent passing ability and some finishing ability. Needs to work on his defending to be more complete box to box mid that Mariner would like him to play. But excellent young player who will be a quality MLS starter in few years.

[Yohan]

MAYBE
Oscar Cordon/M/19/44k
-An AM who has some technical skills, but found himself in the reserves for the season. What Cordon needs is game time, even if it's at CSL/NASL or even NCAA where he can develop something for his game before he fades away.

Torsten Frings/M/35/2 mil
-Team captain missed about half the season due to injury, and it showed on the field that TFC really missed him. Age has caught up to him with injuries, losing pace and ability to keep up with more athletic MLS players. But he is still one of best DMs in the league with excellent positioning and organizer. One of few players on the team who can take a set piece. I put him as a maybe, because it's questionable whether Frings will be fully healthy come pre season, and whether he still has the physical ability to play a grueling MLS season. It may be better to just buy out his contract and use the cap space to bring in younger players who will be able to contribute in the long run.

Aaron Maund/D/M/21/44k
-Former US U20 player found himself in hot water. A tough rookie season where he got mins, but he found himself having to relearn being a midfielder after playing CB for 3 years in NCAA. A good athletic with good attitude, Maund is a work in progress who may end up being a decent MLS player, but he would be buried in reserve on most MLS teams.

Matt Stinson/M/20/44k
-Canadian U20 player had a tough year after a decent 2011. Did not get the mins needed for his development. Stinson works hard, but is very average DM technically and does not stand out. Hard to see where he fits under Mariner's system, considering Maund is preferred over him.

RELEASE
Adrian Cann/D/32/126k
-A tough year for Cann who was injured for a lot of the season, and found his mins limited when he came back. Big, strong with tremendous work ethic, coming this late into his career, he may be a decent depth CB if his salary was like 75k. But at 126k, he doesn't have the attributes to be a starter on an MLS team, given his lack of pace and poor positioning, as well his tendency to make boneheaded plays from time to time.

Jeremy Hall/D/24/100k
-One of few players to really benefit under Mariner, Hall is a versatile player who can play RB and RW and DM in a pinch. Has decent pace and athleticism but that's about it. He has poor positioning, easily gets beaten in 1v1 situations and generally proved to be not good enough to play defence at MLS level, esp at 100k. If he made league min, he might be worth bringing back, but not at 100k.

Ty Harden/D/28/90k
-Lost his spot as soon as defenders became more healthy and then got injured mid season. Nobody tries harder than Harden, but effort isn't good enough at MLS level. His 90k salary is better spent finding more quality depth.

Keith Makubuya/F/19/44k
-Makubuya finds himself in similar situation as Cordon; stuck in the reserves and career is going nowhere. He needs game time somewhere, esp since it looks like TFC doesn't rate him at all.

Andrew Wiedeman/F/23/80k
-Wiedeman has one major advantage, that he is a GA for this season. Considering he's been GA for 3 years now, very doubtable he will be a GA next year and at 80k, doesn't offer much to justify his salary. He is very average striker but with some of poacher skills and not afraid to take a shot. Can also play winger, and also been experimented at fullback at Dallas. Would be decent depth at 44k, but not at 80k.

Dicoy Williams/D/26/52k
-Finally healthy after major injury, Williams is very average MLS CB who doesn't add much to TFC defence, even at cheap salary, but he takes up an int spot. Players of his calibre can be found for league min in MLS.

[jloome]

KEEP: Danny Koevermans, Ashtone Morgan, Reggie Lambe, Luis Silva, Matt Stinson.

Everyone else would be in play if we can upgrade. Rationale: Koevermans when healthy is world-class; Morgan, Silva and Stinson all have the ability to play regularly already and great room for improvement; Lambe is a bargain for a winger of his quality.

Everyone else, and I mean everyone, should be in play for a better deal. I include Doneil Henry in that, as so far I'm not sure he's smart enough as a player for MLS. He probably will be eventually, but he isn't yet. Stinson might surprise someone but I think he's got a good football brain (ala Sam Cronin) and combined with decent techique that can go a long way. Silva actually isn't ready to be a two-way midfielder in this league as his defense and defensive movement in particular are very weak, but he's got great natural talent as an attacker and moves smartly around the box. We should move him into the role of hole player, winger (not wide midfielder, a true 'wing forward' winger) or striker.

[AlanO]

What I'd do, if in charge.. not necessarily what I think the FO will do.

Keep as starters:
Koevermans
Morgan
Frei
O'Dea
Ecks
Silva
Frings, if he's willing to be a CB

Keep as bench/depth options:
Avila
Johnson
Dunfield
Henry
Stinson
Lambe
Roberts
Plata, if he's willing to return

Maybes:
Frings, if he only wants to play midfield
Hassli, if Koevermans' recovery isn't going well.
Amarikwa
Kocic, if he's willing to be a backup. Otherwise trade him - he deserves a shot at being a starter somewhere else.
Emory
Lindsay

Release:
Wiedeman
Maund
Hassli, if Koevermans' recovery is going well
Cann (too expensive for a depth CB)
J. Hall
F. Hall
Harden
Williams
Cordon
Makabuya


Need:
- Starting CB, although I think Frings would be fine here if he's okay with playing at the back
- 3-4 starting midfielders
- Depth fullbacks
- One of starting AM or starting forward

[gracos]

Starters
Darren O'Dea
Terry Dunfield
Richard Eckersley
Stefan Frei
Doneil Henry
Danny Koevermans
Ashtone Morgan


Bench
Quincy Amarikwa
Eric Avila
Reggie Lambe
Joao Plata
Luis Silva
Ryan Johnson

Rest of our current players get rid of

[Chevy]

Wow, no love here for Dicoy Williams? 26 year old who will likely feature for his country in the 2014 World Cup AND who is on $50k a year? He's a keeper in my books, with the only downside being his recent injury.

[jloome]

Wow, no love here for Dicoy Williams? 26 year old who will likely feature for his country in the 2014 World Cup AND who is on $50k a year? He's a keeper in my books, with the only downside being his recent injury.

We only saw him a couple of times. He might be good depth but I was put off by his positioning (he was caught high a couple of times) and his lack of strength. He seemed reasonable disciplined, passes okay. What can I say, i just don't see enough in most of our squad to say I'd keep them.

[starter]

Wow, no love here for Dicoy Williams? 26 year old who will likely feature for his country in the 2014 World Cup AND who is on $50k a year? He's a keeper in my books, with the only downside being his recent injury.

I am on record few times asking how come a cb good for JNT not good for TFC? Unless he shares RJ view of Mariner of course.

[Benficachop20]

Keep:
Emory
Henry
Morgan
Silva
Cann
Makubuya
Koevermans
Stinson
Cordon
Amarikwa
Lambe
Frei
Kocic
Williams
Lindsay
Roberts
Plata

Out:
Avila
Harden
Maund
Frings
Dunfield
F.Hall
J.Hall
Wiedeman

Maybe:
Johnson (trade bait)
Eckersley (keep if only he lowers his salary, getting paid to much for being an average player
Hassli (same as Ecks, not dp worthy)
O'Dea (same as Ecks)

[DoubleUp]

A bit off topic, but we should try contacting Marc dos santos to see if he can send some players from Brazil to trial with us.

[Yohan]

A bit off topic, but we should try contacting Marc dos santos to see if he can send some players from Brazil to trial with us.

Why would dos santos do that for tfc? If anything, he would give more help to mtl

[DoubleUp]

Why would dos santos do that for tfc? If anything, he would give more help to mtl

Yes this is true but doesnt mean we shouldnt try. And its said that he resigned so there might be bad blood that we could capitalize on.


Regardless of who's in charge TFC has to be proactive, this club sits on it hands far to much. Mo wasnt the best guy, but I give him credit for trying to establish some sort relationship with south american clubs .

[prizby]

i love everyone here playing fantasy manager...the fact of the matter is, its not what you would do...its what would PM do...so all those who are saying get rid of Aaron Maund; he's staying...PM see's him as a Jeff Larentowicz project

[Initial B]

Agree with prizby: The only thing that matters to whether on not a player stays if is he was in Mariner's camp or not, regardless of talent level. The only reason a player who wasn't in that camp would stay is if he was a DP and couldn't be gotten rid of easily.

[narduch]

I'm in agreement as well.

I can see all of the following being gone: Avila, Cann, Williams, Stinson, Makabuya, Cordon, Harden, Plata, Kocic.

Based on the season ending press conference I do think Silva, Hassli and Johnson might not be back.

Everyone else I expect to return.

[ag futbol]

I don't think MDS -Mtl connection factors in at all. It's in his interest to open doors for players as a coach.

Judging from the recent TFC podcast though, it sounds like TFC is still beholden to its usual cast of shady agents who provide terrible players.

[DichioTFC]

Didn't take long for the thread to get derailed, as predicted

This thread isn't really supposed to be about who you *want* gone, but more about what's going to happen considering Mariner's suggestions / preferences. Obviously the team will not be blown up and there will be a core of players who will be back next year. The question is who stays, who starts, who's on the bench and how much money do we have left over. Also, is there potential for some of those players to be in the league (signing Hainault or Jakovic?)

[DichioTFC]

Wow, no love here for Dicoy Williams? 26 year old who will likely feature for his country in the 2014 World Cup AND who is on $50k a year? He's a keeper in my books, with the only downside being his recent injury.

Personally, I agree with you 100%. Dicoy is a very good defender and has grown up playing CONCACAF teams. His pace is questionable, but if he recovers well from his knee injury and is paired with a quicker CB (like Doneil Henry), there's a lot of potential for him to get 15-20 games. I see him as cover for O'Dea, but having a rotation role, especially if we drop to a 5 man defensive line to secure important games late. IMO, give him 2013 to prove himself and rebound from the injury. For the price we're paying, its more of an investment than a waste.

[Ultra & Proud]

Also, is there potential for some of those players to be in the league (signing Hainault or Jakovic?)

I think so but I highly doubt either of these two players. I don't think Mariner is at all concerned with having any Canadian talent minus what we have already. Smartest thing I heard thus far was that he was scouting Scandinavia. That's a prime spot as there is talent there and the salaries are within a reasonable realm.

On to topic; I highly doubt Avila, Johnson, Cordon, Makubuya, Harden, Cann, or Kocic will return. I don't see them in Mariner's plans or in a reasonable price range for the bench spot they'd take up.

[DichioTFC]

i love everyone here playing fantasy manager...the fact of the matter is, its not what you would do...its what would PM do...so all those who are saying get rid of Aaron Maund; he's staying...PM see's him as a Jeff Larentowicz project

Prizby's right, he probably is a long-term development project and I don't think PM gets rid of him. I edited the original post to include Maund and his $44K salary to the second group.

Moving forward, I assumed we need 6 new players to come in, and with only 5 spots remaining, that means the glut at forward needs to be reduced. There are three options IMO - Hassli ($350K), Ryan Johnson ($138K) and Wiedeman ($80K). Of the three, the only one that Mariner didn't bring in was Ryan Johnson and judging from his hesitancy at the season-end interview, I get the feeling there's more to this situation than we know on the surface.

As much as I love RJ, he's probably the one leaving if we keep Maund, which Prizby is right in thinking we probably will. PM seems like the type to take hard working players (Dunfield) over more talented ones (Avila). This also unfortunately means that he'll probably be keeping hardworking Wiedeman over more talented, but less driven Johnson.

If it all goes this way (RJ going out, Maund staying), we'll have $708K in allocation for 6 players. If we get a high-priced non-DP overseas player for ~$300K, we'll still have around $400K for the remaining 5 players - $80K / spot. To me, this is remarkable - I don't think in TFC's history have we ever had such good fiscal management.

[DichioTFC]

I think so but I highly doubt either of these two players. I don't think Mariner is at all concerned with having any Canadian talent minus what we have already. Smartest thing I heard thus far was that he was scouting Scandinavia. That's a prime spot as there is talent there and the salaries are within a reasonable realm.

On to topic; I highly doubt Avila, Johnson, Cordon, Makubuya, Harden, Cann, or Kocic will return. I don't see them in Mariner's plans or in a reasonable price range for the bench spot they'd take up.

I get the feeling that PM supports having Canadian players. The first two players he signed to contract extensions were Ashtone and Doneil, although that could also have to do with the Academy more than anything else. If we can trade an outgoing player (Ryan Johnson) and a lower round draft pick to Houston or DCU for either Hainault ($150K) or Jakovic ($208K), it's a trade I would absolutely make. We can even argue to the league (which seems to influence these decisions) that having another Canadian on the team would be good for attendance and help soothe fan anger after the departure of DeRo.

I disagree with Avila. Letting him go would be as bad of a decision as trading Sam Cronin. You'll never get equal value since young, talented players are at such a premium in this league.

[Ultra & Proud]

I get the feeling that PM supports having Canadian players. The first two players he signed to contract extensions were Ashtone and Doneil, although that could also have to do with the Academy more than anything else. If we can trade an outgoing player (Ryan Johnson) and a lower round draft pick to Houston or DCU for either Hainault ($150K) or Jakovic ($208K), it's a trade I would absolutely make. We can even argue to the league (which seems to influence these decisions) that having another Canadian on the team would be good for attendance and help soothe fan anger after the departure of DeRo.

I disagree with Avila. Letting him go would be as bad of a decision as trading Sam Cronin. You'll never get equal value since young, talented players are at such a premium in this league.

Hey you said a few posts ago that it wasn't about what we want but what we think Mariner will do . I say Avila is done here.

Not sure the fan anger would subside over Hainault or Jakovic. I bet minus the people on the supporters forums and the followers of the CMNT, most of the people in the stands, who make up the majority of the paying fan base, have no clue who these players are.

[DichioTFC]

Hey you said a few posts ago that it wasn't about what we want but what we think Mariner will do . I say Avila is done here.

Not sure the fan anger would subside over Hainault or Jakovic. I bet minus the people on the supporters forums and the followers of the CMNT, most of the people in the stands, who make up the majority of the paying fan base, have no clue who these players are.

Lol fair enough. Personally, I don't think PM will get rid of Avila but I can definitely understand your argument.

I didn't mean to say that fan anger *would* subside in reality, just to say that they can use that as a rationale in encouraging the league to approve the trade. Mariner can spin it pretty easily to the league - trading a high caliber Canadian player to Toronto would increase attendance.