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    ..... you dont hear Vancouver or Montreal complaining.

    If Nelsen wants to bitch, he can bitch about the refs being brutal towards the Canadian teams and the league for not giving TFC some slack for losing so many players, but at this point its only TFC bitching about being T-F-Cee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [NBF] View Post
    ..... you dont hear Vancouver or Montreal complaining.

    If Nelsen wants to bitch, he can bitch about the refs being brutal towards the Canadian teams and the league for not giving TFC some slack for losing so many players, but at this point its only TFC bitching about being T-F-Cee.
    Agree,Nelsen should shut up and keep working with the players he has to his disposal.If his team is depending on 2-4 young inexperienced players,then good luck to us for the rest of the season.
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


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    Quote Originally Posted by denime View Post
    Agree,Nelsen should shut up and keep working with the players he has to his disposal.If his team is depending on 2-4 young inexperienced players,then good luck to us for the rest of the season.
    Can we not say the same thing about CMNT? If our team is depending on 2-4 young inexperienced players missing 1 day of practice, the good luck to us in the Gold Cup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by denime View Post
    Agree,Nelsen should shut up and keep working with the players he has to his disposal.If his team is depending on 2-4 young inexperienced players,then good luck to us for the rest of the season.
    Really? Nelsen should shut up? Perhaps someone else should shut their yap instead? Nelsen is trying to do what is right for his club - our club. The CSA are a historic bunch of fumbleheads of the same ilk as Cochrane. If you think this crap is OK then you will have to agree with me when I say we should shut the CSA out of Toronto FC's training facility. Then maybe you can tell the CSA to shut up when they whine about having to use Varsity stadium instead. Shut up indeed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by [NBF] View Post
    ..... you dont hear Vancouver or Montreal complaining.

    If Nelsen wants to bitch, he can bitch about the refs being brutal towards the Canadian teams and the league for not giving TFC some slack for losing so many players, but at this point its only TFC bitching about being T-F-Cee.
    Montreal has ZERO player taken for Gold Cup. Vancouver really is only missing Teibert for starter.

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    Hell is always loose here. It can't break loose again
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    Well what can you say about the CSA? If you are going to take four players from a club I think you have to go a step further than simply making a robotic request. Really poor form on their part.

    Not saying Toronto is blameless, but jesus. You want a team to have Canadians, you come through and raid the roster of some really shakey and inexperienced options without any consideration for the people your impacting. That's a real incentive for your clubs to stock canadians /sarcasm

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    Not quite sure about the rules and please someone clarify for me, couldn't TFC just say fuck off to the CSA and withhold the player? They pay the wages and there is no contract between TFC/CSA/Players saying they must give players to the CSA for the CMNT. Sure it would piss people off, I remember a few years ago though when we had like 5-6 players missing from our starting lineup which is nuts. Imagine Barcelona loosing like half their players because of a Spain tourney(Hypothetical). Im sure the CSA desperately needs TFC more, not the other way around. TFC should have the leverage to do whatever they want.

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    No they can't as a FIFA sanctioned regional championship tournament clubs are required to release players. It's no different than say the Euros

    TFC is 100% to blame if they did not have a back up plan. Everyone who follows NA soccer knew this was going to be a young experimental squad for Canada but TFC didn't? It isn't as if the gold Cup was just thrown together its been on the calendar for a long time. It's poor planning on managements part, plain and simple.
    Last edited by Stouffville_RPB; 06-29-2013 at 06:33 PM.

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    Sat. June 30th ?? You had me worried there for a bit ... the 30th is tomorrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stouffville_RPB View Post
    No they can't as a FIFA sanctioned regional championship tournament clubs are required to release players. It's no different than say the Euros

    TFC is 100% to blame if they did not have a back up plan. Everyone who follows NA soccer knew this was going to be a young experimental squad for Canada but TFC didn't? It isn't as if the gold Cup was just thrown together its been on the calendar for a long time. It's poor planning on managements part, plain and simple.

    ??? Why are you dumping on TFC? You think a bunch of players like Osorio and Henry are going to materialized out of nowhere?? How does your "backup plan" work exactly? Give your head a shake. What "poor planning"? The poor planning was the league schedule + CSA ostrich approach to Toronto FC's request. What you are not saying is that CMNT could allow these guys to skip a practice to help out their team - That is what the CSA and CMNT ARE NOT DOING! Send CNMT to Varsity stadium where the CSA obviously prefers they go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiberius View Post
    ??? Why are you dumping on TFC? You think a bunch of players like Osorio and Henry are going to materialized out of nowhere?? How does your "backup plan" work exactly? Give your head a shake. What "poor planning"? The poor planning was the league schedule + CSA ostrich approach to Toronto FC's request. What you are not saying is that CMNT could allow these guys to skip a practice to help out their team - That is what the CSA and CMNT ARE NOT DOING! Send CNMT to Varsity stadium where the CSA obviously prefers they go.


    Haven't Osorio, Morgan, Henry and Bekker all been called into the previous national team camp last time when Colin Miller was focusing on younger players? If I could make that connection ahead of time so could ALL of TFC management.

    Instead, didn't they cut 2 players in the last week? Isn't there another sent away on "personal leave"?

    Your reaction is exactly what Payne and Nelsen wanted when they put on that show to cover up their personnel mistakes. Keep marching solider.
    Last edited by Stouffville_RPB; 06-29-2013 at 09:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stouffville_RPB View Post
    Glad to be of service!

    To be clear - their issue is not how many bench warmers they keep around - it is the quality of player they are coughing up. Perhaps you are more than happy to put Logan Emory into a game - I guess we disagree on the relative quality of various players... I think putting Emory into a game is a "personnel mistake".
    Last edited by tiberius; 06-29-2013 at 09:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiberius View Post
    Glad to be of service!

    To be clear - their issue is not how many bench warmers they keep around - it is the quality of player they are coughing up. Perhaps you are more than happy to put Logan Emory into a game - I guess we disagree on the relative quality of various players... I think putting Emory into a game is a "personnel mistake".
    Well Bekker and Morgan barely play for TFC. Morgan actually gets time with the CMNT. What if Morgan or any of the other three were given permission by the CSA to stay to play one more game with TFC and one of them got hurt? Then what?

    I'm sorry...but I don't want the already often bumbling CSA to have to deal with a whole other issue from TFC.

    Could the CSA have let them stay another day? Yeah.
    Am I upset that the CSA made their camp and tournament a priority and refused to make an exception for TFC? Not really. I don't see an issue with it.

    Nelsen and his 15 assistant coaches will manage. LOL

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    If Osorio isn't playing, is Bekker the next player that gets slotted in to midfield to give it some legs? And if Henry is pulled out, O'Dea might move to centre for Morgan to play LB. they essentially took the starter and the backup - that's why they wanted two of them to stay - or at least offer an option off the bench in case a starter gets hurt or a late sub.

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    The problem with the "TFC should have known" line of thinking is that if you're going to extrapolate that, it means its probably logical for them to have less Canadians.

    Is that what the CSA wants? Well that's the situation they are putting the club in. They'll take every player they can without considering how it will impact the team, so the team will have to consider how having Canadians will impact them when constructing their roster.

    And really... What is the CSA going to do with half these guys? They have no business playing at a national team level and haven't proven enough to be called. Call Bekker or Osorio, but don't call both. Take Henry, but what the hell is the point of a struggling Ashton Morgan? What is going to benefit him more: playing for a overwhelmed Canadian side or actually getting back into the squad of a short handed TFC? I think he needs to re-establish himself with the club before worrying about the nats.

    If the CSA were smart they'd realize there is probably more benefit to calling half the players rather than all of them. More Canadians would see the field this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiberius View Post
    Really? Nelsen should shut up? Perhaps someone else should shut their yap instead? Nelsen is trying to do what is right for his club - our club. The CSA are a historic bunch of fumbleheads of the same ilk as Cochrane. If you think this crap is OK then you will have to agree with me when I say we should shut the CSA out of Toronto FC's training facility. Then maybe you can tell the CSA to shut up when they whine about having to use Varsity stadium instead. Shut up indeed!
    Nelson can complain all he wants as most club teams do when national players go for duty. The number of players is higher than usual but that's a point of pride for me. Yes, he should know the possibility of this happening and needs to work with the CSA just as he'll have to with any other governing body.

    Your disdain for our nations governing body doesn't negate the equal responsibility on both parties to ensure players have the opportunity to rep their country with the least amount of turmoil to the club side their coming from.
    Nations League Canada vs USA Nov 15th!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Nelson can complain all he wants as most club teams do when national players go for duty. The number of players is higher than usual but that's a point of pride for me. Yes, he should know the possibility of this happening and needs to work with the CSA just as he'll have to with any other governing body.

    Your disdain for our nations governing body doesn't negate the equal responsibility on both parties to ensure players have the opportunity to rep their country with the least amount of turmoil to the club side their coming from.
    My disdain is for those who claim that Nelsen should "shut up". My disdain is for those who claim "TFC is 100% to blame if they did not have a back up plan". Anyone who claims that Nelsen and Payne did not know, or did not plan are just being negative, at best. Nelsen raised this issue for the good of club and to give the CSA a tweak for being wholely uncooperative. To spin it around and say Nelsen should shut up, or that he is covering some ineptitude, is just not on. I can live with whatever the CSA bumbles along and does - who is surprised by whatever jackass thing happens with them?? Payne and Nelsen will survive CSA ineptitude - the point is, people with values and backbone call jerks jerks once in a while. Nelsen has done this, and I for one, applaud and stand by him. Those that want to take the other side - knock yourselves out!

    I think Payne and Nelsen have been straight forward with the CSA and been supportive - up to now. Going forward... good luck to the CSA... As most know, there are ways... and there are ways... If the CSA thinks that they can win this type of thing, they are mistaken. Why not give and take a bit, instead of being assholes? Oh, I forgot - its the CSA.... Does the Ontario teachers Pension Plan own the CSA...
    Last edited by tiberius; 06-30-2013 at 08:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiberius View Post
    My disdain is for those who claim that Nelsen should "shut up". My disdain is for those who claim "TFC is 100% to blame if they did not have a back up plan". Anyone who claims that Nelsen and Payne did not know, or did not plan are just being negative, at best. Nelsen raised this issue for the good of club and to give the CSA a tweak for being wholely uncooperative. To spin it around and say Nelsen should shut up, or that he is covering some ineptitude, is just not on. I can live with whatever the CSA bumbles along and does - who is surprised by whatever jackass thing happens with them?? Payne and Nelsen will survive CSA ineptitude - the point is, people with values and backbone call jerks jerks once in a while. Nelsen has done this, and I for one, applaud and stand by him. Those that want to take the other side - knock yourselves out!

    I think Payne and Nelsen have been straight forward with the CSA and been supportive - up to now. Going forward... good luck to the CSA... As most know, there are ways... and there are ways... If the CSA thinks that they can win this type of thing, they are mistaken. Why not give and take a bit, instead of being assholes? Oh, I forgot - its the CSA.... Does the Ontario teachers Pension Plan own the CSA...
    Your bias is affecting the quality of your argument. I, too, believe that an agreement between the 2 bodies could be more flexible but the blame is not solely on the CSA. The ones I feel for are the players that are now put in the awkward spot of country vs club. Now this airing of dirty laundry has happened I'd suspect they have thoughts of "Uh oh, Mom and Dad are fighting.."
    Nations League Canada vs USA Nov 15th!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post

    ... The ones I feel for are the players that are now put in the awkward spot of country vs club. Now this airing of dirty laundry has happened I'd suspect they have thoughts of "Uh oh, Mom and Dad are fighting.."
    You may be right - perhaps their might be a bit of awkwardness for a player or two, but Ima kinda doubting it... I am pretty darn sure that if you ask the majority of men and women who have played on the national team, they will give you an earful - transparency and openness are required here in order to make meaningful change. To keep things hush, hush and claiming "dirty laundry" is all very polite Canadian - it is just what the CSA relies on. Who can stick up for the players? They are the ones stuck not being able to say much, except under extreme circumstances... Payne and Nelly are two outsiders that the CSA cannot hurt - more power to them - poke 'em and keep poking them! The tawdry state of our national teams has to be parked at the doorstep of the CSA. Who else? Success by our men and women teams are despite the presence of the CSA, not because of it.

    That being said:
    - Toronto FC is looking better these days - ball on the ground - better skill on the field - team slowly gelling - promising president and coach
    - CNMT is plugging along with 4 players from TFC
    - we have a great Women's National team

    A lot of good (soccer) things to celebrate on CANADA DAY!!

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    The frustrating part is when players get called to national matches but then don't get onto the pitch when they certainly would play with their club teams.

    Stuff like that must make team coaches/managers crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiberius View Post
    You may be right - perhaps their might be a bit of awkwardness for a player or two, but Ima kinda doubting it... I am pretty darn sure that if you ask the majority of men and women who have played on the national team, they will give you an earful - transparency and openness are required here in order to make meaningful change. To keep things hush, hush and claiming "dirty laundry" is all very polite Canadian - it is just what the CSA relies on. Who can stick up for the players? They are the ones stuck not being able to say much, except under extreme circumstances... Payne and Nelly are two outsiders that the CSA cannot hurt - more power to them - poke 'em and keep poking them! The tawdry state of our national teams has to be parked at the doorstep of the CSA. Who else? Success by our men and women teams are despite the presence of the CSA, not because of it.

    That being said:
    - Toronto FC is looking better these days - ball on the ground - better skill on the field - team slowly gelling - promising president and coach
    - CNMT is plugging along with 4 players from TFC
    - we have a great Women's National team

    A lot of good (soccer) things to celebrate on CANADA DAY!!
    While I thank you and acknowledge you ending on a positive note I can't agree with your perception of the situation. These Mens players especially are relatively new to the senior squad or have been seldom called up. As far as they see or hear the club can either let them go when the country asks or complain about it. Of course their sense of duty will be called into play but your assuming the players would NEED Payne and Nellie poking the CSA is separate from the issue. The players are caught in the middle and blameless. I agree that our club needed to be vocal concerning the non communication from the CSA but the point was made by the club and didn't need repeating. A lot of that was the media harping for drama but anyway you look at it the interview got repetitive. I understand that the club used the only avenue open to them for communication, though. Whether one agrees with the CSA or not they should make good with their stance on the training schedule now and going forward be more more forthright in their stating direction to all clubs and fans through media.

    I won't defend the CSA in everything but I would like to acknowledge the several parts of the whole as issues arise (and we know they will...) and not ignore the small changes that happen. It's not the "Same old CSA" and regardless if they struggle to improve now the fact that the possibility for change is more likely in the near future than it has in several cycles.
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 07-02-2013 at 06:56 AM.
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