No one is arguing that the team should be turned around in 5-10 games, what I have said that I would like to see better play and/or some results in the next 5-10 games, so that we can confidently keep Nelsen as a coach going into 2014. If things fo not start improving by the end of the seasons, then there is great reasons to doubt in Nelsen holding on to the job for next year.Originally Posted by Hitcho
The problem in the last 6 years has not been that we have fired coaches, but that we have not had a coach who was up to the task. Again there is no logic to give a coach time no matter how poorly he is doing in.
Philly recruited an experienced manager and they are demonstrably better than us.
Philly doesn't have a record of firing their coach every year for 7 years. People actually want to go there.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
The problem is we had several coaches who might have worked out if we had given them enough time. I especially would have like Chris Cummins to have had a couple of seasons, and who knows really why JC left? Maybe even Preki could have turned his team around given time.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-30-2013 at 08:12 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
^ I'd agree.
Cummings and Carver would have made good coaches with a few more years getting there players and figuring out the leauge better. We have to stop not only the player carousel but the manager carousel as well.
No patience from fans makes no patience from management. It will be luck and not good planning that will turn this team around. Luck in a good aquisition that yields immediately to make several others that do the same. It's all that people have patience for.
I'm not saying it's impossible with the bankroll we have but it means we'll be buying most of our success instead of a more stable, slow build.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
One win in the last 26 league games. Patience? Ownership can go fuck themselves. It's a testament to the patience of our fanbase that BMO Field hasn't been burned down to the ground yet.
He has you there Pete
WE DID IT!
The point was being made that if mgmt had more patience we may have kept Carver, Cummings and Winter for longer and seen something. They responded and now it compounds the issue. I know better than to ask fans for patience today.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
But it's pointless bringing Carver and Cummins into the discussion. Neither of them were fired. Carver up and left because he was frustrated with MLS (although who knows what was really going on behind the scenes with Mo) and Cummins left for family reasons.
No worries, I wasn't taking a shot at you. It's just that the term 'patience' with regards to this franchise has taken on a new meaning for those of us that still bother to support this club.
Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 05-30-2013 at 02:08 PM.
Right. I forget what the official lines are sometimes. My bad. No sarcasm.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
In the absence of tangible results, I would accept reasonable cause for optimism. Unfortunately, after the team started the season fairly well, the team has progressively worsened.
Wasn't singling you out either Pete, just the idea that's been mentioned by a number of posters that we should have given Carver or Cummins more time. Well, they didn't really give us that chance! Believe me, who knows where we might be today had either of them still been around.
Worsened, and so far Payne hasn't managed to land anyone except Laba. Everyone else has either flamed out or they've already announced the loans won't be continued (except Earnie, who's a good striker, but patchy).
Again, it might just be a massive underestimation of how little they would have to work with when they got to Toronto, but it seems this whole season has been treated like an experiment in dissecting problems with the goal of addressing them by next year. One more good reason for Payne to shut the fuck up about the playoffs being possible.
^ As much as I thought we should have tried to make the playoffs this year, at this point, we would need a miracle to do it. I am all for setting goals, but not unrealistic ones.
I would have agree that it was realistic at the start of the season, as I believe a well organized team WITH a couple of key attacking players COULD always make the playoffs in this league, but now it is silly, unless we get 3 major, major signing, AND we start getting some points soon, neither of which seems likely to happen.
Exactly, Cummins to me is the only coach that acctualy showed promise. Carver lost it, for many reasons. I love defensive football and I supported Preki at first, but he did lose the plot, and his football was not well organized tactically smart defend first then counter football, it was 10 men behind the ball and then hope for the best when you get the ball.
I admit we looked good in the CL with him, but by mid season he had lost it.
As the weather gets warmer, the team always gets better; historically we are a slow team at the beginning of the season. With that said, according to Payne during this morning's interview with the Morning Show, he does not expect us to reach the playoffs until next year.
Furthermore, I am unconvinced by Nelsen and his game tactics and formations, but maybe he smartens up and picks up a few a lessons along the way. He has to trust his players, motivate them properly and prepare them physically and tactically for every team individually. God speed
Playoffs are laughable for this year. Vancouver snuck in with 43 points last year. We'd need 1.5 points per game to get to 43 points this year. If the number is 53 (every team other than Vancouver had 53 or more) then we'd need almost 2 PPG. So that ain't likely going to happen but I'd definitely be back in the stands more if it did.
Realistically I think the next 24 games are going to be a chance for the club to prove themselves to us so they can ask for a higher season ticket price next year. Hell they probably have to prove themselves to the fans just to get people to pay year 1 pricing again next year.
I've got to admit that the comments from Nelsen and Payne drive me nuts more than anything. I'm not expecting much anymore, hell, if they show up and play 60 minutes that's a plus. But enough comments about playoffs. Or being almost there. Stop trying to create any kind of hype, because frankly, it will get blown back in your face.
Is this really true? TFC has won one game in 26 MLS games???
TFC only won 6 games in the last 2 seasons... but its not fair to give this management team shit for something that they had no control over. I have trust in these guys more than I've had for any of the previous, simply because EVERYBODY says they have a plan, they have good characters, but they only need time. They're talking about TFC being a different team after the summer window, and that will be the time to judge them. With half a transfer window, no cap space, outrageous contracts, and defenders playing strikers, what do you expect them to do?
I don't think you can fire any more coaches. To many coaches have been fired that makes you wonder, can any coach help this team improve?? doe's firing coaches mid season get us anywhere?? There is other reasons a team can be a constant failure other then just blaming coaches for the bad performance. It is time to look at other ways to improve this team by either letting the team grow and improve over a long period of time or look at who is working for this team in different areas from behind the scenes, maybe that is the where the real problem is.
Prices did drop this year, aren't some sections currently at the same price of year 1? anyways I don't think they can raise prices for quite some time, they are having trouble selling tickets currently, on average it seems like the stadium is 3/4 full, sometimes even less. It can even be hard to give tickets away sometimes.
Yes. I meant to say 'higher price than the current price'. I think the club needs to show a continuing trend of improvement over the remaining games to increase over current (year 1) pricing. I can't see any realistic scenario where people would buy back in at last years prices.
Could be worse.
The Blue Jays
Imagine having to go through 4.5 months of playing every day, talking to the press every day, knowing you were supposed to win and instead your goal is to get to above .500 so the increased ticket season base won't go through the floor.
^Yep!
I know it's a message board and the nuanced details of TFC's past failures sometimes need to be distilled down to something that's less than 10,000 words, but when you are as bad as TFC has been it's a lot more complicated than simply giving a coach time.
Briefly: Mo Johnston tains the view of everything prior to Aron Winter. He's still the primary reason why this organization is as bad as it is today. If you want to go higher-level than that, you can talk about Anselmi / Bernier etc.. being a bunch of clueless idiots who are woefully incapable of providing oversight to people on the technical side.
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