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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Pablo Vitti says you're an optimist
    I always contend that if Pablo Vitti was given another year, he'd have really taken off; he had never been a turf player and we got grass in 2010; some of his best games were on grass when he was with TFC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I read some pretty mixed comments, Armen. What's your source there?
    Generally I don't listen to supporters evaluations of players that are leaving. We've had lots of players leave TFC who we would all say were poor players, but then have gone on to be great for their next club. I can of an equal amount of players who were fantastic for one club, then went onto be poor at the next one (NZogbia, Downing, two easy examples without even thinking about it!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmenJBX View Post
    I took to Twitter and asked Argentinos Juniors fans about Laba. I had some mixed messages so I only added the repeated themes amongst their fans; good passer, really fast/runner and not a creative midfielder but a defensive midfielder. The word "recuperador" came up more than once.

    That, plus the video, and that gives us a general sense of who he is as a player. He may have qualities we don't know about and maybe Nelsen has plans to use him in a different role if he does sign but for now, this is a first look at the kind of player he is.
    I was reading comments on this article, which seemed quite mixed. Some think he's great, others think he's inconsistent and doesn't have much to offer. I guess time will tell.
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

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    Quote Originally Posted by prizby View Post
    I always contend that if Pablo Vitti was given another year, he'd have really taken off; he had never been a turf player and we got grass in 2010; some of his best games were on grass when he was with TFC.
    Agreed. He was very unlucky hitting four or five goal posts. The interplay between he and Amado was wonderful. He was offered a contract for 2010 but, assuming I was given the correct information, he turned it down as it was a major pay cut. It’s a shame really. He had skill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard View Post
    Agreed. He was very unlucky hitting four or five goal posts. The interplay between he and Amado was wonderful. He was offered a contract for 2010 but, assuming I was given the correct information, he turned it down as it was a major pay cut. It’s a shame really. He had skill.
    Truth be told management wanted him back at a lower price but couldn't come to terms, that was the rumor at least. We spent our Mo Edu money like it was going out of style and them we were in a bad place cap wise. Prior to JDG arriving we had a payroll that was something like 800-900k more than any other MLS team without a DP. Dero, Robinson, Guevara, Vitti, all on 300k +... Should have done so much more!

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    Is anyone else a bit worried about this signing, and the amount of money being talked about in particular?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Truth be told management wanted him back at a lower price but couldn't come to terms, that was the rumor at least. We spent our Mo Edu money like it was going out of style and them we were in a bad place cap wise. Prior to JDG arriving we had a payroll that was something like 800-900k more than any other MLS team without a DP. Dero, Robinson, Guevara, Vitti, all on 300k +... Should have done so much more!
    For sure. Mo's notorious "plan" had nothing to do with long-term building; it was to stockpile allocation money then make a push in year 3. If coaching had turned out better it might have even worked for that one year. Of course after year 3 it had to be torn down due to the cap and running out of the cash. If Tom Anselmi had known anything about managing teams in any sport he would have realized this and fired Mo.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Is anyone else a bit worried about this signing, and the amount of money being talked about in particular?
    nope. don't care how much transfer fee is being paid since Laba will be a young DP with 200k cap hit only.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Is anyone else a bit worried about this signing, and the amount of money being talked about in particular?
    Not at all, you have to pay for quality. My only nervousness is whether Onstad is a good scout.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    ^ Then you have some worry about whether he's worth that kind of fee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    ^ Then you have some worry about whether he's worth that kind of fee.
    not that I have too much faith in KP's ability to sign good SA players, but you have to hope that he will do due dilligence in scouting. at least we will be guaranteed that KP and staff had good luck at this kid instead of picking a name out of the hat of MoJo era
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Obviously I really hope you're right, but it's hard not to be a bit pessimistic. By MLS standards, $1.5 million is a pretty hefty fee. I don't know too much about this guy, but fans of his current club say he's not creative and not a goalscorer. Guys that can win balls in the midfield and have the smarts to hold it and start moving forward are valuable, but they don't make the visible impact people will expect of a DP with that kind of money being thrown around. I'm also a bit wary of an Argentinian player in that role in MLS, which is full of poor/flailing type tackling. Can he stand up to it? It feels a risky signing to me, but until we see him play....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Obviously I really hope you're right, but it's hard not to be a bit pessimistic. By MLS standards, $1.5 million is a pretty hefty fee. I don't know too much about this guy, but fans of his current club say he's not creative and not a goalscorer. Guys that can win balls in the midfield and have the smarts to hold it and start moving forward are valuable, but they don't make the visible impact people will expect of a DP with that kind of money being thrown around. I'm also a bit wary of an Argentinian player in that role in MLS, which is full of poor/flailing type tackling. Can he stand up to it? It feels a risky signing to me, but until we see him play....
    Young DPs get a bit more slack than bigger name DPs. Diego Chara and Fabian Castillo for example.

    Then again, it's Toronto so if Laba doesn't score goal a game, he is a bust
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Is anyone else a bit worried about this signing, and the amount of money being talked about in particular?
    Does the purchase price or signing fee go against the cap or allocation in any way...?

    If not - I don't care if MLSE shells out a a few hundred million dollars on someone - they have plenty more where that came from....

    Against the cap or allocation - obviously another story...
    "...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."


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    As I undestand it, the fee is ammortized across the length of the contract. The cap hit is the $200,000 for a young DP.

    You could say who cares about JDG's contract (or Frings' for that matter) because the cap hit is small in relation to the total contract. But how many people felt those 3 year albtrosses? If Laba's a bust, it'll feel the same way.
    Last edited by Canary10; 04-10-2013 at 10:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    As I undestand it, the fee is ammortized across the length of the contract. The cap hit is the $200,000 for a young DP.

    You could say who cares about JDG's contract (or Frings' for that matter) because the cap hit is small in relation to the total contract. But how many people felt those 3 year albtrosses around our necks? If Laba's a bust, it'll feel the same way.
    If his salary is massively out of whack with his performance - ya that'll cause problems agreed with you there. Best example as you say JDG making boatloads of money & our best player making far less...

    If it's just his purchase fee that's mega-high & some Argentine club gets rich, then who cares... LOL
    "...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."


  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post

    Then again, it's Toronto so if Laba doesn't score goal a game, he is a bust
    so true. The hate thread will start after game 2, probably just entitled "Laba," with someone saying he's no good and a waste of cap space, overpaid, and Dunfield is much better plus a Canadian! It will run to 30 pages within 1 week.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Obviously I really hope you're right, but it's hard not to be a bit pessimistic. By MLS standards, $1.5 million is a pretty hefty fee. I don't know too much about this guy, but fans of his current club say he's not creative and not a goalscorer. Guys that can win balls in the midfield and have the smarts to hold it and start moving forward are valuable, but they don't make the visible impact people will expect of a DP with that kind of money being thrown around. I'm also a bit wary of an Argentinian player in that role in MLS, which is full of poor/flailing type tackling. Can he stand up to it? It feels a risky signing to me, but until we see him play....
    I hope people don't have blinders on about him scoring goals. To me the most important / impactful players in this league are the Kyle Bekkerman's, Ozzie Alonso's, Roger Espinoza's, LAG Juninho ... If your guy can control the middle of the park, it does so much for the rest of your team. It allows your attackers to defend less, get the ball quicker, etc...

    It's a damn good investment if it works out. Sounds like he's an all-action battering ram type, which is exactly what we need to stop being flooded in the midfield every game. Seems to get a fair amount of cards also, but that could work to our advantage in MLS. Argentina they'll call the game pretty tight, so he probably takes a fair amount of professional fouls that will simply be swept under the carpet here, because the officiating is still below par.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    so true. The hate thread will start after game 2, probably just entitled "Laba," with someone saying he's no good and a waste of cap space, overpaid, and Dunfield is much better plus a Canadian! It will run to 30 pages within 1 week.
    And then after scoring his first goal he'll do a shake and bake followed by a show me the money gesture
    Last edited by ag futbol; 04-10-2013 at 11:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I hope people don't have blinders on about him scoring goals. To me the most important / impactful players in this league are the Kyle Bekkerman's, Ozzie Alonso's, Roger Espinoza's, LAG Juninho ... If your guy can control the middle of the park, it does so much for the rest of your team. It allows your attackers to defend less, get the ball quicker, etc...

    It's a damn good investment if it works out. Sounds like he's an all-action battering ram type, which is exactly what we need to stop being flooded in the midfield every game. Seems to get a fair amount of cards also, but that could work to our advantage in MLS. Argentina they'll call the game pretty tight, so he probably takes a fair amount of professional fouls that will simply be swept under the carpet here, because the officiating is still below par.


    And then after scoring his first goal he'll do a shake and bake followed by a show me the money gesture
    Yeah I agree with this. Having played that position, I have a lot of respect for it. But it also tends to get the least recognition. Then you get what Oldtimer is saying above. Anyway, I do worry about this signing, but I'm looking forward to seeing him play. A little worry isn't a bad think I don't think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Is anyone else a bit worried about this signing, and the amount of money being talked about in particular?
    No, I would hope they put him on a 1 year contract so that it all goes to the year 1 cap hit of $200k and they can dump him if they don't like him.

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    To add to this - all we've heard from Nelsen et al (ok not all but quite frequently) is the matra of how this team needs to stop conceding goals and become hard to beat. IMO this signing, should it go through, fits into that philosophy to a 'T', and we can debate whether or not he will be any good in MLS, his fees, etc ... but we should at least be somewhat positive that the club has finally put forth a vision for the type of team it wants to be (outside of glossy booklet) and is seeking players whose style actually is an active piece of the puzzle.

    Again, Nelsen wants the team better defensively and hard to beat and they are looking at a guy, from what is out there, that appears to be a pitbull in winning back balls and getting it upfield to his teammates. This is a good start at achieving that IMO and given his age and pedigree looks to be in the ascent of his career, unlike Vitti who had fallen off badly and was hardly playing when he came here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abou Sky View Post
    No, I would hope they put him on a 1 year contract so that it all goes to the year 1 cap hit of $200k and they can dump him if they don't like him.
    I would be shocked if he is making this move for a one year contract. Little chance.

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    KP said to me (paraphrasing):
    toronto is a mature market. dont need to bring in big name but depreciating assets on contracts that need buy outs near the end. This is about getting an appreciating asset that could play now, could grow a bit and if one is lucky grows way up netting a sell on sale. The entire young DP contract idea is designed to help MLS place talent into the big 4 leagues in UEFA.

    Selling players (any players) up helps MLS reputation and helps in signing locals to home grown deals. And that is where the best big money potential sits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeachTory View Post
    KP said to me (paraphrasing):
    toronto is a mature market. dont need to bring in big name but depreciating assets on contracts that need buy outs near the end. This is about getting an appreciating asset that could play now, could grow a bit and if one is lucky grows way up netting a sell on sale. The entire young DP contract idea is designed to help MLS place talent into the big 4 leagues in UEFA.

    Selling players (any players) up helps MLS reputation and helps in signing locals to home grown deals. And that is where the best big money potential sits.
    That's music to my ears. Hopefully this is what we begin to see going forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spark View Post
    To add to this - all we've heard from Nelsen et al (ok not all but quite frequently) is the matra of how this team needs to stop conceding goals and become hard to beat. IMO this signing, should it go through, fits into that philosophy to a 'T', and we can debate whether or not he will be any good in MLS, his fees, etc ... but we should at least be somewhat positive that the club has finally put forth a vision for the type of team it wants to be (outside of glossy booklet) and is seeking players whose style actually is an active piece of the puzzle.

    Again, Nelsen wants the team better defensively and hard to beat and they are looking at a guy, from what is out there, that appears to be a pitbull in winning back balls and getting it upfield to his teammates. This is a good start at achieving that IMO and given his age and pedigree looks to be in the ascent of his career, unlike Vitti who had fallen off badly and was hardly playing when he came here.
    Exactly. Who's to say if it will actually work or not, but at least the idea behind it is fundamentally sound.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Exactly. Who's to say if it will actually work or not, but at least the idea behind it is fundamentally sound.
    If he turns out anywhere near as good as Ozzie Alonso at intercepting and breaking up plays, it'll be worth it. That shit is gold in this league and guys who have great anticipation but will play defensively in the midfield are hard to find. I honestly thought, big money notwithstanding, that DeGuzman would be much better at it than he was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    And then after scoring his first goal he'll do a shake and bake followed by a show me the money gesture
    let's hope that sort of thing is in the past...
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I honestly thought, big money notwithstanding, that DeGuzman would be much better at it than he was.
    The la liga De Guzman would have been. What happened to that guy and how his not so good doppleganger showed up in Toronto is a mystery.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    The la liga De Guzman would have been. What happened to that guy and how his not so good doppleganger showed up in Toronto is a mystery.
    Seriously. I'm sure injuries and coaching turnover played a part but De Guzman was probably the biggest disappointment in TFC history. I can't help but compare it to Montreal and Bernier. Similar story there, hometown kid returning after career abroad. Except Bernier actually delivered and is a crucial part of the team. Oh and his salary is less than 1/10th of De Guzman's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    The la liga De Guzman would have been. What happened to that guy and how his not so good doppleganger showed up in Toronto is a mystery.
    Yep I watched a fair amount of la Liga de Guzman and while he was very defensive he was a hell of a player. I think Mo got conned into that contract. In the span of half a year JDG went from being linked to the biggest non-el Classico clubs in Spain to coming to TFC. I think he was probably crocked physically and the teams over there knew it.

    Mo rushed in and took the bate. Sure enough he falls apart shortly after and to make things worse our mentally challenged management think he's an AM after watching a handful of gold cup games.

    He was literally known in Spain for shooting the ball over the net!! But he was near telepathic at reading passes. Watched him masterfully shield the backline when depor beat Real Madrid on two occasions.

    That being said you could argue he didn't help himself either, although he kept his mouth shut while being consistently railed until he left town, which shows a certain amount of tack.

    Bad signing on all levels unfortunately.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 04-10-2013 at 06:04 PM.

 

 

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