Toronto FC Council

[Oldtimer]

Email from ML$E:

As a valued Season Seat Holder, we'd like to invite you to join Toronto FC Council, our new online customer panel.

Toronto FC Council is an online customer forum dedicated to improving the experience of every one of the thousands of fans who visit BMO Field every year. Through regular surveys and polls you can help shape our policies and practices.

Join Toronto FC Council

Every time you share your thoughts you'll be eligible to win prizes from Toronto FC.

As an early membership bonus, join by Monday April 15th, 2013 and you will be entered for a chance to win tickets, kits and merchandise from Toronto FC. Please click here for the complete contest rules and prize list.

Please note that Toronto FC Council members could receive up to one survey per month on a variety of topics. As a Season Seat Holder, you will continue to receive annual surveys pertaining to your account, including the Season Seat Holder Service Survey.

We're looking forward to hearing from you!

Toronto FC
//ALL FOR ONE

Interesting initiative... getting fan input is a valuable thing. The CAA and GO Transit have done similar things recently with their customers.

[Fort York Redcoat]

HAhahaa

input in survey form of course. I'm pretty sure a comment section would be even worse than the fb responses they get.


Anyway, They are trying and that's something.

[Oldtimer]

The questions they asked in the pre-qualifying survey:

What Province do you live in? (Click on province or outside of Canada)
Are you currently an employee of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment?
Are you currently employed by a media or press outlet?
Are you male or female?
In What Year and Month were you born? [January 1912 is the earliest date, so if you're over 99 years old they don't expect to hear from you]
Please enter your 6 digit postal code
Household income
Current Employment Status
Marital Status
How many children under 18 do you have living at home?
Highest level of formal education
Interest in the following teams (avid, casual, not a fan): Toronto Blue Jays, Toronto Argonauts, Toronto Marlies, Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors, Toronto FC
In the 12 past months have you attended a Toronto FC game at BMO Field [screens out scalpers?]
How many Toronto FC games at BMO Field have you attended?

[Then there was a question about which Toronto Teams you've watched online or on TV]

Do You belong to any of the following Toronto FC Supporters Groups (Red Patch Boys, Original 109, U-Sector, Tribal Rythm Nation, None of the Above)?

[CommradePolski]

I signed up for it.

[phonzo]

I can't ever slag on their efforts to try to engage their "fanbase"....alas in the end if all it amounts to is lip service - then what's the point.

[ensco]

I think people should think carefully about participating in this. "Engaging the fan base" is not likely what's driving this.

It's not necessarily in your interest for corporations to understand you as well as they'd like.

[billyfly]

^ As I filled out the form I thought "What will Ensco say about this?"

Lol.

I signed up just to b*tch about BMO Field. (Where's my gate!?)

[glaze]

I signed up, but I think its pretty irrelevant. The significant changes that are needed to enhance the gameday experience at BMO will not be accomplished based on a survey they send out.
But as SSH's, they already have all of our data, so really there is no harm in filling out the form, and providing some feedback.
I really would like to see that reports that stem from them. As someone who used to compile those reports for the CBC, the comments can be rather entertaining.

[BFin]

The questions they asked in the pre-qualifying survey:

What Province do you live in? (Click on province or outside of Canada)
Are you currently an employee of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment?
Are you currently employed by a media or press outlet?
Are you male or female?
In What Year and Month were you born? [January 1912 is the earliest date, so if you're over 99 years old they don't expect to hear from you]
Please enter your 6 digit postal code
Household income
Current Employment Status
Marital Status
How many children under 18 do you have living at home?
Highest level of formal education
Interest in the following teams (avid, casual, not a fan): Toronto Blue Jays, Toronto Argonauts, Toronto Marlies, Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors, Toronto FC
In the 12 past months have you attended a Toronto FC game at BMO Field [screens out scalpers?]
How many Toronto FC games at BMO Field have you attended?

[Then there was a question about which Toronto Teams you've watched online or on TV]

Do You belong to any of the following Toronto FC Supporters Groups (Red Patch Boys, Original 109, U-Sector, Tribal Rythm Nation, None of the Above)?

Disguising market research as an engaging fan council...brilliant marketing actually.

[FluSH]

^^^^
yup

[Stress]

I signed up so I can vote on the starting 11 when they fire Nelson.

[Joe Kool]

The first time I saw this was for Rogers so not real surprised to see it with MLSE now. I became a panel member for Rogers products/services years ago. It was actually interesting to see some of the things they were coming up with as possible products/services. Some stuff I thought was a good idea and some stuff I said it sucked on the survey. Some of the things from the surveys ended up coming out but most stuff didn't. I figure the responses played a role in some way. It was good to weigh in on stuff that could affect me and I hope in this case that if the majority likes or dislikes something they will actually use that as a decision making tool. Like some have said I don't put them down at all for trying to engage us. I don't mind being part of a marketing thing as long as they use the information they get and are not wasting my time.

[dupont]

I don't mind them doing market research on what food to serve and things like that, I just hope they are done listening to the fans on player signings etc

[Abou Sky]

I think people should think carefully about participating in this. "Engaging the fan base" is not likely what's driving this.

It's not necessarily in your interest for corporations to understand you as well as they'd like.

Never quite understood this mentality.

I LIKE targeted advertising, I want ads about stuff that I care about. I don't want ads for hemorrhoid creme, I do want ads about new tech.

[Yagbod]

I lied on almost all of their questions. I would love to help them improve the fan experience or whatever, but they do not need to know my income, education or number of children for that. They can go fuck themselves on their data mining.

[jloome]

I think people should think carefully about participating in this. "Engaging the fan base" is not likely what's driving this.

It's not necessarily in your interest for corporations to understand you as well as they'd like.

Unless you enjoy their engagement of removing more money from your pocket while tailoring the services and products you enjoy in life to make you consume as much as possible.

But then you'd be Jabba The Hutt.

[jloome]

I lied on almost all of their questions. I would love to help them improve the fan experience or whatever, but they do not need to know my income, education or number of children for that. They can go fuck themselves on their data mining.

QFFT. What a shitty cynical move; "hey, while we're making headway with rebuilding the team, let's cynically use it to try and data mine the suckers who are buying in! Yay!"

I have to say, I've spent the last year building the first half (or third, really) of a home-based income from fiction writing and the web, after twenty years of working for these sorts of people. (I write kindle novels as LH Thomson, for what it's worth.)

It's an inevitable part of the human tribal construct -- whether you call it community, ideology, tribalism or whatever -- that the people who aspire to lead it aren't there for the same communal reasons as the supporters; if they were, usually they'd just be supporters, and not leaders. They're there for more selfish reasons, and every time we give them an inch, they will try to take a mile back the second way.

The sole reason the Seattle experience is so different is that two-thirds of the ownership were fans first, owners second. That's why they're willing to give their fans a say in the GM.

We're the polar opposite. No matter how well Nelson and Payne do, a company like MLSE will always defer to the base manipulation of the bottom line, and that requires the base manipulation of its customer base.

The best the vast majority who want a balance between financial success for the club and success on the field can do is cast a weary eye around for bullshit like this survey, and then treat it with the contempt it deserves. Hell, email Payne en masse; I'm sure someone can figure out his MLSE address. Tell him we're not fans of abuse; we don't particularly like being hugged with one hand and slapped with the other.

[Oldtimer]

The first time I saw this was for Rogers so not real surprised to see it with MLSE now. I became a panel member for Rogers products/services years ago. It was actually interesting to see some of the things they were coming up with as possible products/services. Some stuff I thought was a good idea and some stuff I said it sucked on the survey. Some of the things from the surveys ended up coming out but most stuff didn't. I figure the responses played a role in some way. It was good to weigh in on stuff that could affect me and I hope in this case that if the majority likes or dislikes something they will actually use that as a decision making tool. Like some have said I don't put them down at all for trying to engage us. I don't mind being part of a marketing thing as long as they use the information they get and are not wasting my time.

My feelings exactly. I refused to give my income, but everything else I answered. I am part of the GO Transit panel, and I've seen significant improvements in service coming from the ideas on the panel. It's been quite worthwhile. As a corporation like ML$E, you don't do this primarily to mine a database (you can, but there are cheaper ways to do that than spending the time to run panels). You do it to get constructive feedback on a discrete set of issues, rather than the unfocused complaints that you'd get on a Facebook page.

[Abou Sky]

QFFT. What a shitty cynical move; "hey, while we're making headway with rebuilding the team, let's cynically use it to try and data mine the suckers who are buying in! Yay!"

I have to say, I've spent the last year building the first half (or third, really) of a home-based income from fiction writing and the web, after twenty years of working for these sorts of people. (I write kindle novels as LH Thomson, for what it's worth.)

It's an inevitable part of the human tribal construct -- whether you call it community, ideology, tribalism or whatever -- that the people who aspire to lead it aren't there for the same communal reasons as the supporters; if they were, usually they'd just be supporters, and not leaders. They're there for more selfish reasons, and every time we give them an inch, they will try to take a mile back the second way.

The sole reason the Seattle experience is so different is that two-thirds of the ownership were fans first, owners second. That's why they're willing to give their fans a say in the GM.

We're the polar opposite. No matter how well Nelson and Payne do, a company like MLSE will always defer to the base manipulation of the bottom line, and that requires the base manipulation of its customer base.

The best the vast majority who want a balance between financial success for the club and success on the field can do is cast a weary eye around for bullshit like this survey, and then treat it with the contempt it deserves. Hell, email Payne en masse; I'm sure someone can figure out his MLSE address. Tell him we're not fans of abuse; we don't particularly like being hugged with one hand and slapped with the other.

See, I don't really buy this whole 'MLSE is evil' thing.

I have owned my own business since I was 20, I DO care about my customers and what they think because I want to serve them.

MLSE does want to pick your pocket of more money, they want to know HOW to best pick your pocket and make you happy while they do it.

Example, I promised my son a new long sleeved O'Dea jersey if they have one in youth size if they have it at the next BMO home game. By filling out the questionnaire they know that I have kids and I have money and I want there to be youth sized gear in the team shop.

Market research is there to benefit the consumers as well as the vendors.

[ensco]

^ As I filled out the form I thought "What will Ensco say about this?"

Lol.

I signed up just to b*tch about BMO Field. (Where's my gate!?)

Funny. I always wonder what billyfly will say in the hockey threads.

[ensco]

See, I don't really buy this whole 'MLSE is evil' thing.

I have owned my own business since I was 20, I DO care about my customers and what they think because I want to serve them.

MLSE does want to pick your pocket of more money, they want to know HOW to best pick your pocket and make you happy while they do it.

Example, I promised my son a new long sleeved O'Dea jersey if they have one in youth size if they have it at the next BMO home game. By filling out the questionnaire they know that I have kids and I have money and I want there to be youth sized gear in the team shop.

Market research is there to benefit the consumers as well as the vendors.

Ahh, but you are a small business owner. You I tip my hat to. But you are unable to put customer information to work the way the behemoths can.

The modern fetish for data mining by big corporations is out of control. I mean that literally. Even well intentioned things are going wrong all over the place, no one really knows or understands how and where this information is being used, or where this is going.

This is way bigger than MLSE. We need to stop the cyborgs.
http://stopthecyborgs.org/about/

[fergiejr]

I didn't read this email as anything BUT market research, and I have signed up for it based on that. I would like to have my say in what I see at BMO in the future - even if they don't use my opinion. It's one thing to complain about it when you're there on game day, and another to actually say somethign about it to someone who could be listening.


When you sign up, you can go into the portal and there is an area you can click in to put comments in for your last experience at a TFC game. It's essay format, not survey format for the first part, so you can put in whatever you want. Then they ask when it was, and where it was and how you would categorize your comments.

Hey maybe, just maybe, if they had this thing before the switch to Budweiser we may have avoided that by all collectively saying "No".

[Oldtimer]

Ahh, but you are a small business owner. You I tip my hat to. But you are unable to put customer information to work the way the behemoths can.

The modern fetish for data mining by big corporations is out of control. I mean that literally. Even well intentioned things are going wrong all over the place, no one really knows or understands how and where this information is being used, or where this is going.

This is way bigger than MLSE. We need to stop the cyborgs.
http://stopthecyborgs.org/about/

I hope you don't use a credit card then. That's a big reason why they offer you points... if you do all of your purchases through them they can build a complete profile of your spending habits. That is actually worth a lot more than one would think, and much more of a violation of your privacy than some questions you voluntarily answer to ML$E. Some of them actually offer some of their data mining to you as a "value-added" feature for budgeting: like how much you spend on books, how much on gas, etc. Believe me they know much more about you than that!

A former president of MasterCard once wrote a book where he stated that no-one concerned about privacy should use credit cards at all. Just cut them up.

[Suds]

Many of the household name companies most people know are not the ones I would worry too much about. (note - I'm a huge proponent of control and security of one's own information)

I'm betting most have never heard of Acxiom Corp. It's the worlds largest data mining company and could make Google look like a baby in the filed. Tens of thousands of servers that collect, mine, and map everything consumers do. It's who the MasterCards, major banks, and retailers of the world go to for information on consumers.

If you're concerned about companies collecting info on you, MLSE's little survey is probably the least of your worries.

Anyway, MLSE's survey completely voluntary so no one has to opt in.

[Globetrotter]

I lied on almost all of their questions. I would love to help them improve the fan experience or whatever, but they do not need to know my income, education or number of children for that. They can go fuck themselves on their data mining.

This is selfish nonsense. Love to help by giving you incorrect data.

Help by staying away from the survey if you don't want to fill it out. Why would anyone waste their time filling out incorrect information?

It takes effort to hate, and little to no effort to be indifferent.

Those actions are just flat out immature.

[ensco]

I hope you don't use a credit card then. That's a big reason why they offer you points... if you do all of your purchases through them they can build a complete profile of your spending habits. That is actually worth a lot more than one would think, and much more of a violation of your privacy than some questions you voluntarily answer to ML$E. Some of them actually offer some of their data mining to you as a "value-added" feature for budgeting: like how much you spend on books, how much on gas, etc. Believe me they know much more about you than that!

A former president of MasterCard once wrote a book where he stated that no-one concerned about privacy should use credit cards at all. Just cut them up.

The fact that much of your personal info is available/misused elsewhere is a separate point.

Listen, obviously, the real problem is not about this little survey (although I do think people should think hard about ever giving this info away voluntarily).

It's the dis-ingeniousness of it that is the real problem. Like it's all about you being heard. Like they are doing you a favour.

[Beach_Red]

See, I don't really buy this whole 'MLSE is evil' thing.

I have owned my own business since I was 20, I DO care about my customers and what they think because I want to serve them.

MLSE does want to pick your pocket of more money, they want to know HOW to best pick your pocket and make you happy while they do it.

Example, I promised my son a new long sleeved O'Dea jersey if they have one in youth size if they have it at the next BMO home game. By filling out the questionnaire they know that I have kids and I have money and I want there to be youth sized gear in the team shop.

Market research is there to benefit the consumers as well as the vendors.

Do you also have shareholders you have to serve? Anyway, in many ways I agree with you, but it's frustrating that MLSE need to be told that there might be a demand for kids' stuff.

[TFC07]

I join Toronto FC council and wrote a complaint how Frings tribute was very amateur and how having someone sing our national anthem instead of crowd singing it was lame.

[Suds]

I lost interest in this "council" once I found out you don't get to wear Medieval garb, carry swords, and sit around a big round table.

[Globetrotter]

Listen, obviously, the real problem is not about this little survey

It's the dis-ingeniousness of it that is the real problem. Like it's all about you being heard. Like they are doing you a favour.

Can you, or anyone that doesn't like the survey, prove without a doubt what their true intentions are?

This survey was part one of many to come.


When they have their event to determine if some fans like this food or that food, and help decide what's on the menu at BMO for the next season, are we to assume they are doing this to know if we prefer to wash the car in our driveways or at a drive-through wash center? Are they asking us if we like what they are making and if it should be on the menu to secretly find out our opinions of the Cuban missile crisis?

I have a feeling they're interested in knowing what we like to eat so they can sell us food at the stadium that we want to eat. Yes that has benefit to them, but it has benefit to us.

I don't ask people what they would like for their birthday strictly to make shopping easier for me, I ask so I can get something they might want or like.