TFC 2013 general player moves/speculation/etc.

[Super]

Or we could have kept the status quo and kept our awesome run of form going.


Not sure why it's so hard to realize that we had to clear cap room before submitting transfer requests into our league offices. The league isn't going to take our word for it that as soon as the new guys can play then we'll trade Silva and transfer O' Dea. Doesn't work like that. You have to be cap compliant before submitting contract requests. Also remember, that when we want a player we don't just sign him up. We work the preliminary deal then the league itself negotiates with the player and draws up the final contract. No matter what Payne offers it's still up to the league to accept that or try to negotiate as they see fit. Many times in this league deals take a while due to league negotiations and paperwork. You'd rather Payne come out and say "Hey, we signed Forlan!" and then have the league say that the deal is no good for MLS and then Payne ends up looking like a sucker, you know, like when the unprofessional crew last year did the same thing with Mellberg.

I'm on board - I think KP and RN are right for this club, and I do believe that we're in for much better things to come. However, most people who frequent the TFC games do not take the time to understand why things are happening the way that they are. To them it's just more defeats, more players in and out. So you and I will continue to go to the games, but we'll still hear people around town talk negatively around town, saying that KP promised this and that. RN isn't helping matters by talking about the play-offs a week before the complete collapse (did he honestly believe that, or was he just feeding us BS?). Credibility lost with the casuals, and they make up for the majority of the stadium. So that's why I'm saying to expect empty stands in the remaining games of the season.

[ag futbol]

This is really the key thing on this move. They save salary, yeah, but getting a transfer fee for him is way more important. Even a $1 million transfer fee, fairly small potatoes in European football, would be huge in MLS terms. There's no way they could pass up on that, planned or not.

If we get any sort of fee they should erect a statue of kevin payne in front of BMO field. We are basically getting a 150-200k performance out of a 450k player. It probably is for salary cap purposes the worst contract in the entire league.

Simply having him off the books is a huge win. A transfer fee would just be incredibly lucky.

[Canary10]

I'm sure I'll get roundly roasted for this but... the season is shot. It's pretty much what we expected going in, and sure enough it has happened. I expected us to pick up a few extra points along the road to the bottom of the table, but we are here in the same place none the less.

I'm not going to concern myself much with how we do in these next few games. I expect us sign a few people before this window is over and hit *something* that looks like a less futile run of form before the end of the season. Next year, I expect us to be 100% ready to go, no excuses, no bullshit, no cute quotes about "being in every game". Pretty much just like it was with Aron Winter, season two will be put up or shut up time. And I have no problem with that whosoever.

Is there no way that we can better sequence these things so we're not dropping players without replacements in the midst of 3 games in a week? I know some things, like O'Dea, come up as a surprise, but fuck. We get caught out on these things all the time.

[ag futbol]

Is there no way that we can better sequence these things so we're not dropping players without replacements in the midst of 3 games in a week? I know some things, like O'Dea, come up as a surprise, but fuck. We get caught out on these things all the time.

Timing has not been great in some cases and they've certainly shot themselves in the foot a few times. Take the Silva transfer for example. I don't know who would be responsible for getting that message out there but somebody should have egg on their face. It's Tuesday, they know the media is at practice and they know that something is imminent. They hung their own players out to dry, which is a morale killer.

Now that being said, I really see a lot of this as the team simply needing to make moves when they come up. The second O'dea has something on paper I would not put him on the field and jeopardize that move. Nor would I with Silva or anyone else.

Really, if they had just stuck to their original message about this being a tough year, they'd be fine right now. I don't understand why anybody is mentioning playoffs for any reason. I guess the message from above is that enough seasons have been thrown away already and ticket sales are hurting, so don't tell anyone you're writing off the year.

[Ultra & Proud]

Is there no way that we can better sequence these things so we're not dropping players without replacements in the midst of 3 games in a week? I know some things, like O'Dea, come up as a surprise, but fuck. We get caught out on these things all the time.

Thing is you delay these moves until this week is done to potentially win or draw 3 matches, two of which are against teams that we'd be in tough with even with everyone still here and then what if whomever we may have already submitted papers for or at least made offers to and the players go elsewhere due to what they will see as an unprofessional delay?

Let's say we did that and we did about as well as can be expected and lost to KC, won at Chivas, and drew against NYRB. That gives us 4 extra points that mean dick all when we aren't making the playoffs and then much like in the past, we fucked the future for a few points now and would end up settling for the usual scrubs we get here and then we'd have to dump and replace them next year. And the cycle continues. For all the patience talk earlier in the season, it sure went out the window after Silva got moved and nothing happened within the first few days of the window being open.

[Initial B]

I'm honestly wondering if there is a back-room power struggle between Lieweke and Payne. It seems that the vision for TFC was clearer before TW was appointed by the MLSE bigwigs. I would think that the board has confidence in KP since they asked for him from MLS, but who knows what kind of egos are involved here.

Perhaps we're looking at the beginning of the end for this cycle?

[Phil]

I'm honestly wondering if there is a back-room power struggle between Lieweke and Payne. It seems that the vision for TFC was clearer before TW was appointed by the MLSE bigwigs. I would think that the board has confidence in KP since they asked for him from MLS, but who knows what kind of egos are involved here.

Perhaps we're looking at the beginning of the end for this cycle?

I didn't get the impression that there was a struggle at all from the way they all talked and interacted together. Tim is different though, that much is clear. Kevin seemed very comfortable interacting with him, moreso than most of the others I saw him with.

That being siad you never really know. If things get really bad, I would expect leaks. They seemed very unified on their targets and persuit and had all the clearance given by those they need it from.

[OgtheDim]

Lieweke has said numerous times that he likes Payne, admires what he has done in the league, and considers him somebody he can work with.
The same was not said of Colangelo.
One example of how Lieweke knows Payne would be that I'm pretty sure before Arena was hired that Lieweke would have had a talk with Payne.

Payne knows who is the big boss. But Lieweke also knows who has to do what job to get it all done. Although Lieweke is all for the big splash, KP has never been completely against that.

[tfcleeds]

^Only thing is, Leiweke seems hell-bent on a major DP on a similar level to Beckham/Henry at all costs. I don't think that was ever necessarily a part of Payne's thinking when he first came in.

[Phil]

^Only thing is, Leiweke seems hell-bent on a major DP on a similar level to Beckham/Henry at all costs. I don't think that was ever necessarily a part of Payne's thinking when he first came in.

The model still supports a big name, and this is where the compromise comes in. Big name DP or little name, the hit is the same (depending on age). It means you still have to be careful of overspending on other positions and that there needs to be a heavy emphisis on academy talent advancing to fill the holes. What name you put in at DP is semantecs, its the philosophy in play and how those roles are supported that is key.

[barticusz]

I'm likely missing some extra detail in this but based on the salaries that were provided earlier this year.. here is the situation.. Note that Caldwell's salary is not known and is excluded, and Bloom's contract isn't included either but he'd likely be around the Richter dollar amount. In general there is roughly 1M in cap space available for the team.. + allocation? If that is how it works.

						Base Salary		Guarunteed Salary
1	TOR	Koevermans	Danny	F	$	335,000.00	$	1,663,323.33		1,250,000.00
2	TOR	O'Dea	Darren	D	$	350,000.00	$	456,250.00
3	TOR	Eckersley	Richard	D	$	210,000.00	$	310,000.00
4	TOR	Laba	Matias	M	$	200,000.00	$	200,000.00
5	TOR	Califf	Danny	D	$	165,000.00	$	165,000.00
6	TOR	Frei	Stefan	GK	$	145,000.00	$	200,000.00
7	TOR	Earnshaw	Robert	F	$	138,000.00	$	155,150.00
8	TOR	Braun	Justin	F	$	112,200.00	$	114,700.00
9	TOR	Russell	Darel	M	$	99,999.96	$	109,874.96
10	TOR	Hall	Jeremy	D	$	80,000.00	$	90,000.00
11	TOR	Silva	Luis	M	$	70,400.00	$	105,400.00
12	TOR	Lambe	Reggie	M	$	67,500.00	$	70,000.00
13	TOR	Morgan	Ashtone	D	$	60,000.00	$	72,000.00
14	TOR	Wiedeman	Andrew	F	$	55,000.00	$	65,000.00
15	TOR	Henry	Doneil	D	$	50,000.00	$	62,083.33
16	TOR	Emory	Logan	D	$	48,400.00	$	48,400.00
17	TOR	Agbossoumonde	Gale	D	$	46,500.00	$	53,166.67
18	TOR	Bekker	Kyle	M	$	46,500.00	$	67,750.00
19	TOR	Bendik	Joe	GK	$	46,500.00	$	46,500.00
20	TOR	Osorio	Jonathan	M	$	46,500.00	$	46,500.00
21	TOR	Roberts	Quillan	GK	$	46,500.00	$	46,500.00
22	TOR	Welshman	Emery	F	$	46,500.00	$	46,500.00
23	TOR	Richter	Ryan	F	$	35,125.00	$	35,125.00
		Before Summer Moves				2,372,499.96			< Salary Cap on First 20 players
		After Summer Moves				1,915,224.96

[KGH]

I'm likely missing some extra detail in this but based on the salaries that were provided earlier this year.. here is the situation.. Note that Caldwell's salary is not known and is excluded, and Bloom's contract isn't included either but he'd likely be around the Richter dollar amount. In general there is roughly 1M in cap space available for the team.. + allocation? If that is how it works.

						Base Salary		Guarunteed Salary
1	TOR	Koevermans	Danny	F	$	335,000.00	$	1,663,323.33		1,250,000.00
2	TOR	O'Dea	Darren	D	$	350,000.00	$	456,250.00
3	TOR	Eckersley	Richard	D	$	210,000.00	$	310,000.00
4	TOR	Laba	Matias	M	$	200,000.00	$	200,000.00
5	TOR	Califf	Danny	D	$	165,000.00	$	165,000.00
6	TOR	Frei	Stefan	GK	$	145,000.00	$	200,000.00
7	TOR	Earnshaw	Robert	F	$	138,000.00	$	155,150.00
8	TOR	Braun	Justin	F	$	112,200.00	$	114,700.00
9	TOR	Russell	Darel	M	$	99,999.96	$	109,874.96
10	TOR	Hall	Jeremy	D	$	80,000.00	$	90,000.00
11	TOR	Silva	Luis	M	$	70,400.00	$	105,400.00
12	TOR	Lambe	Reggie	M	$	67,500.00	$	70,000.00
13	TOR	Morgan	Ashtone	D	$	60,000.00	$	72,000.00
14	TOR	Wiedeman	Andrew	F	$	55,000.00	$	65,000.00
15	TOR	Henry	Doneil	D	$	50,000.00	$	62,083.33
16	TOR	Emory	Logan	D	$	48,400.00	$	48,400.00
17	TOR	Agbossoumonde	Gale	D	$	46,500.00	$	53,166.67
18	TOR	Bekker	Kyle	M	$	46,500.00	$	67,750.00
19	TOR	Bendik	Joe	GK	$	46,500.00	$	46,500.00
20	TOR	Osorio	Jonathan	M	$	46,500.00	$	46,500.00
21	TOR	Roberts	Quillan	GK	$	46,500.00	$	46,500.00
22	TOR	Welshman	Emery	F	$	46,500.00	$	46,500.00
23	TOR	Richter	Ryan	F	$	35,125.00	$	35,125.00
		Before Summer Moves				2,372,499.96			< Salary Cap on First 20 players
		After Summer Moves				1,915,224.96

Don't forget our 2 KC players

Convey Bobby M $ 200,000.00 $ 215,000.00
Thomas Michael M $ 57,750.00 $ 60,713.21

[barticusz]

I knew I was missing something very evident!

[TFC07]

Convery makes $200K? WOW!

[19Barrett19]

Wtf where are the new players I'm getting impatient

[Marc"2L"]

We can probably all leave this thread for the day now....

[Ivy]

I doubt TFC is paying 200k for Convey...

[69Chevy396]

Wtf where are the new players I'm getting impatient

The other guys are getting them, you know, good MLS teams which have good management. I just find it both predictable and amusing that whomever mlse hires each season or two to run TFC the same shit happens. Only in Toronto are pro sports fans mocked if they dont embrace these new guys and humble themselves in complete acquiescence. MLSE is the problem, it makes no difference who they hire cause that manager will be a yes man in the same mold as a cabinet minister in Harpers govt. Dale Lastman probably has more decision making authority than Payne or Lewicke, and he is a dimwit.

[NolbertoS]

All these constant delays and no press conferences. Is Forlan and Urutti trying to squeeze as much from MLSE?? If there are no announcements this week, I'm thinking the Forlan deal fell apart, due to financial and accomodation constraints. As much as the season is a wash, don't want the players thinking they got nothing left to play for other then pride

[khso11]

Unfortunately, it's this type of thinking/pressure that has led to some impulsive and often lopsided contracts that we have all come to regret. Let's ask management to stop commenting on their pursuits. Period. And we'll pretend that we're mature and wise enough to accept that there are no guarantees until a contract is signed, with papers in order and approved by MLS.














Yeah, right......

k, maybe all these false hope have got up to my head. Ok, so everyone lets be patient!!!!

[Phil]

I doubt TFC is paying 200k for Convey...

Good point, sometimes on player dumps the original club shoulders part of the contract just to get the player the opportunity to play.

[Ivy]

Good point, sometimes on player dumps the original club shoulders part of the contract just to get the player the opportunity to play.

If Convey was rotting on the bench is KC, surely that draft pick is more valuable to them the he. It makes more sense for them to eat a portion of the salary and get a draft pick, than pay his entire salary and get jack.

[tfcleeds]

Just funny how last week there was so much scuttlebutt about new player signings being 'imminent', and yet, we saw the outgoing of two key players in the starting XI out of the blue, with nary a clue that either was about to happen.

[barticusz]

billyfly, I'm just wondering what your connection is to TFC? You had mentioned these imminent signings and press conferences but sadly nothing has come of them. I don't doubt you, just curious is all. I'd rather have some slimmer of hope than nothing at all.

[ManUtd4ever]

Just funny how last week there was so much scuttlebutt about new player signings being 'imminent', and yet, we saw the outgoing of two key players in the starting XI out of the blue, with nary a clue that either was about to happen.

I agree. I'm inclined to give Payne the benefit of the doubt based on his track record, but the silence is somewhat disconcerting following the dpartures of two key players.

[Ivy]

I agree. I'm inclined to give Payne the benefit of the doubt based on his track record, but the silence is somewhat disconcerting following the dpartures of two key players.

Departures that you heard nothing about... So the silence is not unusual.

[Ivy]

There's no pleasing most people here eh? Lol when TFC talks and deals fall through, everybody is telling them to stfu. Now that they're not saying anything, everyone is begging for them to talk... Sheesh...

[Haddy]

There's no pleasing most people here eh? Lol when TFC talks and deals fall through, everybody is telling them to stfu. Now that they're not saying anything, everyone is begging for them to talk... Sheesh...

Nailed it.

[Super]

Talking TFC on TSN: http://www.tsn.ca/Toronto/listen/

[Red I]

I doubt TFC is paying 200k for Convey...

Probably a pro-rated cap-hit for this year, but that is his estimated salary for a whole year.