TFC 2013 general player moves/speculation/etc.

[ag futbol]

So any news on who that other DP, Payne is looking at in 2 weeks?? I doubt its the marquee name they're looking for. I'd say wait after the World Cup. I'm sure there will bargains and players to interview and sign. In the meantime, can't wait to see Urruti in an Official TFC game. I saw a couple of Copa Libertadores matched of NOB and saw that Urutti played pretty good. If he can handle the hacks of Brasilian teams, he'll do fine in MLS. Keep in mind that most South American leagues are physical, but not hockeyesque like MLS. If Camilo of the Whitecaps could adjust to the physical play now, instead of diving in the past, I'm sure Urruti will do the same

Agreed.

It's worth keeping in mind too that a lot of MLS players get away with being overly physical because the attackers aren't all that skillful. Starting to see more guys in this league who can make undisciplined physical defenders look stupid, which changes how much physicality can actually come into play.

[Marc"2L"]

Really curious to see what the pay situation is going to be like.
Young DP?

[trane]

Thought I heard that he liked to float behind the striker. If so, he would be fine and would essentially be filling the spot Silva would have been in had he still been here.

In that case, he should be ok.

[ensco]

i don't think so at all.

Payne's done a great 2013 reality check/job righting the salary cap ship and is now adding pieces - i agree that there was probably a part 2 to the silva deal that didn't happen but that's football, it happens in the biggest leagues around the world.

we'll see who is added in the next week and through the January window going into next season - that will tell a much clearer tale me thinks.

OK give us an example of a team moving one of its significant young assets in anticipation of a move that didn't happen

btw the argument about Osorio vs Silva is irrelevant. If you move Silva for another young domestic asset, fine. But that's not what allocation is used to acquire.

[Greatest Ripoff]

OK give us an example of a team moving one of its significant young assets in anticipation of a move that didn't happen

btw the argument about Osorio vs Silva is irrelevant. If you move Silva for another young domestic asset, fine. But that's not what allocation is used to acquire.

Silva is almost 25, he is not young.

[Ultra & Proud]

OK give us an example of a team moving one of its significant young assets in anticipation of a move that didn't happen

btw the argument about Osorio vs Silva is irrelevant. If you move Silva for another young domestic asset, fine. But that's not what allocation is used to acquire.

What move that didn't happen? Osorio usurped Silva from the AM role. No way Silva would be an AM here so he'd have to be a forward. His best forward position is to float behind the striker. Urruti will be doing that and he has more upside and already a better strike rate per minutes played in a better league.

So yeah, I say the move to replace Silva happened. His extra allocation may bring someone else later or may have already helped with Elmer and Rey.

[Ivy]

Silva is almost 25, he is not young.

And was quickly drifting away from the asset category.

[Couchy81]

I don't think anyone think Silva isn't worth having on your team, but it's clear that he would have been bumped down the ladder with Osorio shining bright and Urruti's potential on the horizon. We might have made the move in order for something else that didn't pan out, but he would have been a 25 y/o on the bench behind two younger players.

[Macksam]

That is exactly what I was thinking. He looks like he would loss his footing the moment a cb leans a shoulder into him, not a great feature for a Center Forward. Hopefully his game is speed.

Looks can be deceiving. Angel Di Maria looks like a tooth pick but he's got the best upper body strength in the game next to Yaya Toure.

[notthesun]

What move that didn't happen? Osorio usurped Silva from the AM role. No way Silva would be an AM here so he'd have to be a forward. His best forward position is to float behind the striker. Urruti will be doing that and he has more upside and already a better strike rate per minutes played in a better league.

So yeah, I say the move to replace Silva happened. His extra allocation may bring someone else later or may have already helped with Elmer and Rey.

My thinking exactly. Although I wish we had gotten Urruti far sooner after the Silva trade.

Can't even begin to understand how Osorio taking Silva's spot in the lineup is irrelevant... Silva would still be with us if that didn't happen.

[69Chevy396]

Silva is almost 25, he is not young.

I said I wouldn't wade in re Silva, but it is simply too early to give Osario the torch, and there remains a distinct possibility that under a new manager, playing forward regularly, and with renewed confidence, Silva could be better than Osario and Urruti within a year.

[Ultra & Proud]

I said I wouldn't wade in re Silva, but it is simply too early to give Osario the torch, and there remains a distinct possibility that under a new manager, playing forward regularly, and with renewed confidence, Silva could be better than Osario and Urruti within a year.

Could is the key. Right now Silva is not.

[69Chevy396]

Could is the key. Right now Silva is not.

That may be true. Both Osorio and Silva are playing on mediocre teams and neither will be facing the pressure to win that playoff teams experience. The test will come next season. I remember when Dunivant, Cronin, etc were dumped for similar reasons and look how that turned out for us.

[OgtheDim]

Silva is all coulda woulda shoulda.....


I'm more wondering who the heck KP is going to get for January.

[69Chevy396]

Silva is all coulda woulda shoulda.....


I'm more wondering who the heck KP is going to get for January.

I doubt he will announce anything prior to ticket renewal. He still has to deal with the crumbling fan base and find ways at rebuilding this inthe remainder of this horrible season.

[Blizzard]

Osario was one of those too no?

I do believe so!

[jloome]

Could is the key. Right now Silva is not.

I think you missed my initial point; whether Silva was good enough to work here or not (long run, I'm not convinced), Payne said he HAD to move him to make way. Then that deal obviously fell through, since we haven't signed a midfielder or AM. No one thinks they were comparing Silva to strikers, do they? So obviously they jumped the gun.

Whether it turns out to be the right decision isn't my point; my point is that Payne doesn't look particularly competent right now.

[jloome]

OK give us an example of a team moving one of its significant young assets in anticipation of a move that didn't happen

btw the argument about Osorio vs Silva is irrelevant. If you move Silva for another young domestic asset, fine. But that's not what allocation is used to acquire.

Exactly. This was "we need the money now to sign someone now" and, most importantly, both Nelsen and Payne said Silva wouldn't be seeing much playing time because of people they were bringing in.

[notthesun]

No one thinks they were comparing Silva to strikers, do they? So obviously they jumped the gun.

Why, is that not possible? Silva played CF a number of times when Nelsen was using the 4-4-1-1. With Osorio usurping Silva at CM/CAM, Silva being ineffective at wide mid, and him having success in a more advanced role under Mariner last year, I don't see why he couldn't also be compared with our attacking options.

I see what you mean re: the way Payne presented the Silva trade and how the reaction was supposedly going to be swift. But no harm no foul in the end, because with Urruti on this team Silva would be on the bench every game even without that extra signing. Payne could've had multiple signings in mind when he was talking about that trade; because whether we signed Urruti, or whoever we could've signed during the window, or whoever we're supposed to sign next week, or a combination of any of those, Silva wouldn't be playing in any case.

[ag futbol]

Exactly. This was "we need the money now to sign someone now" and, most importantly, both Nelsen and Payne said Silva wouldn't be seeing much playing time because of people they were bringing in.

Public comments from management meant for public consumption. Remember: they praised Dunfield all the way up until the point that they cut him, towed the line on Califf even though it was clear they didn't like something about him. These guys aren't in the business of telling us what they really think.

As far as I could see, it didn't look like Silva was striving here or fit into the system. He never put in the work defensively to justify playing in the mid and was never consistent enough going forward to merit building around. Today, or sometime down the road he was inevitably going to be replaced by someone better. Selling wasn't a bad call in the slightest; better than letting him stay here and lose trade value.

Nice little run at DC aside, let's see him sustain a decent level of performance / motivation over the long run.

[WestStandGeoff]

I doubt he will announce anything prior to ticket renewal. He still has to deal with the crumbling fan base and find ways at rebuilding this inthe remainder of this horrible season.

Well, my ticket rep emailed me this week to confirm my contact details in preparation for the renewal drive, so it seems that's not so far off...

[Couchy81]

well based on nelsen's latest interview here: http://www.torontofc.ca/video/2013/0...august-14-2013

he just used the pairing young with old strategy,

compared Henry playing with Caldwell
compared Urruti playing with Koevermans and Earnshaw
compared Osorio and Laba playing with ______

Which looks to me Silva was moved to make room for a DP midfielder no question. We will see next week I guess.

[cochrdoc]

A lot of the talk has been about bringing in attacking players and with the transfer window over ,I wonder if Rey and Urruti will improve this area.Also with O`Dea gone ,I wonder if our defence is going to be a problem again after the mistakes that were made last game.We seem to improve in some areas and get exposed in others

[wzhxvy]

I would not be shocked if we end up with Landon Donovan. MLS will want to pay him and who better to fund their generosity than MLSE and TFC. It will allow LA to bring in new names that garner more attention/exposure.

[TFC07]

I would not be shocked if we end up with Landon Donovan. MLS will want to pay him and who better to fund their generosity than MLSE and TFC. It will allow LA to bring in new names that garner more attention/exposure.

No way that will happen. Donovan will play for American MLS team if MLS is trying to keep him in the league since he's more marketable in American city than Toronto (Toronto and Montreal are last places you will see a big name American player playing for). TFC is going international for their DP! I believe Forlan is the guy TFC will try to sign next year after world cup.

[denime]

Laba seems to intimate in his interviews that the Argentinian league is actually a physical league as well. if Urruti can perform there, like Laba, he hopefully should handle the style of play here, and the type of defence you see here

MLS is not physical league,it is RECKLESS League and that is a huge difference between MLS and any other league across the world.
In no other league players are so reckless as in MLS and referees are not helping at all.

[ensco]

I can't believe some of the "arguments" people are making. There are pages of nonsense here.

There are two separate points to be argued.

First, it doesn't matter whether Silva will turn out to be good in the long run, or is worse than Osorio. Silva had value in the marketplace. Payne chose to trade that value not like-for-like, but for something different (better ability to sign an international), and while nobody can evaluate the move in total yet, it reeks of TFC 1.0 so far - undervaluing domestic assets, making trades for the short term (the point isn't that Silva isn't young, it's that he may be a serviceable MLS domestic for many years, something that is hard to find), and gambling on internationals with big question marks.

Second, the inability to sign the player(s) that the TFC FO identified is a separate matter, and also not good, so far.

The flip side is that it's too early to say. Building is a lot harder than burning. But that's a thin reed. This has been a bad start.

[DaBandit]

No way that will happen. Donovan will play for American MLS team if MLS is trying to keep him in the league since he's more marketable in American city than Toronto (Toronto and Montreal are last places you will see a big name American player playing for). TFC is going international for their DP! I believe Forlan is the guy TFC will try to sign next year after world cup.

I agree with your Donovan thought, no way he ends up here for the exact same reason as Dempsey is in Seattle, he's better for the league in a US market. Any chance he goes to NY? Not sure if they have 3 DP's or not..

[Ultra & Proud]

making trades for the short term (the point isn't that Silva isn't young, it's that he may be a serviceable MLS domestic for many years

But some may say, international status aside, that getting Rey, Elmer, and Urruti is long term planning as they are all young and in the case of Urruti, who will be playing in the position best suited to Silva, is that he is younger, with a bigger upside, and who has already been involved in more meaningful play in better competitions. To me that is like for like minus the domestic status. Now if we got Forlan or Kaka or another older player like Drogba then that would be short term movement but Payne chose young players to build around who have some upside and that is TFC version never.

[backbeat]

I can't believe some of the "arguments" people are making. There are pages of nonsense here.

There are two separate points to be argued.

First, it doesn't matter whether Silva will turn out to be good in the long run, or is worse than Osorio. Silva had value in the marketplace. Payne chose to trade that value not like-for-like, but for something different (better ability to sign an international), and while nobody can evaluate the move in total yet, it reeks of TFC 1.0 so far - undervaluing domestic assets, making trades for the short term (the point isn't that Silva isn't young, it's that he may be a serviceable MLS domestic for many years, something that is hard to find), and gambling on internationals with big question marks.

Second, the inability to sign the player(s) that the TFC FO identified is a separate matter, and also not good, so far.

The flip side is that it's too early to say. But that's a thin reed. This has been a bad start.

and again i guess i say - big deal - maybe (and i don't know for sure) Payne made a mistake in that he was close to a major signing that coincided with this deal and it didn't happen - shit does happen in football - never-the-less it doesn't detract from his on-going strategy of aligning TFC's payroll/cap for a solid team foundation - competitive at all positions - and the ability to add future potential.

i wish it would happen sooner - but i do believe, for the first time in a long, long time - that we are headed in the right direction.

Again we'll see in the next week or so, as well in the January window, how we start the preseason in 2014 and subsequently the stat of the league in 2014....

the thing is i have enjoyed what i've been seeing the last many games and i do think with a few additions we would be an interesting team to watch and to watch win...

and i also saw for the first time in a long time last Saturday, an atmosphere at BMO that suggested the 2007/2008 feeling could return, and it was f'ing marvelous....

so i'll hold on a bit longer....