The individual players might not always do that much better. That's very subjective anyway in a team sport like footy.Originally Posted by Abou Sky
Yes I think it's heart. Extremely important is stability, and finding the right roles for your less-than-perfect MLS players (and the right players for your roles). Stability is also related to really building a team. Feeling like you belong & that everyone has each others back is also extremely important in a league like the MLS.
Last edited by Auzzy; 05-13-2013 at 09:54 PM.
OK, finally watched the Payne Inteview on TFCTV. A lot of stuff, and it doesn't all fit into a nice neat category. I suggest people watch ALL of those - worth the time.
- Spent most of the time saying defenders need to make the right decisions so we could get points. Would be a top 4 east team if we didn't take points off the table by not making decisions.
- Echoed the real annoyance Nelsen had at the goal off a throw in against San Jose.
- "Only 1 or 2 players that want to play out a game." And after that he pointedly stated that younger players could "learn the hard way." (I'd say that's Califf and Russel gone, even though he later point blank denied Califf was not still a part of the team)
- He indicated trades and player movements to happen this week to address the back line. "People talking all the time. But there are some serious things going on out there."
- Midfield DP Creative types targetted for the summer signings.
- He is targeting MLS to fix the issue of referee experience imbalance. (TFC thinks they have pull with Garber.) Not an excuse, just saying.
- Ben Haim...wants a long term deal somewhere, has big money offers, and ain't gonna jeapordise it for a few months of on loan - rushed signing not finalised. (I'd say that ship has sailed)
- Caldwell expected to be a starting CD and hoping he is a 1 1/2 year dude, if he works out. He and Brockie to available on Saturday.
- Brockie likely not sticking around after the loan period.
- Current Players - "Some of them may not be good enough, or good enough now."
- Full time USL relationship for next year, a farm team not in Toronto. TFC would commit money to make that happen. No commitment to where really. Needs to be a team willing to play TFC players even if that jeopardizes a win. Asked point blank about Ottawa and no flinch or smile or blink, just a flat "Could be."
- Not going to panic for a short term fix that would jeopardize the long term.
- Looking at a 2 year DP and a 5-6 year to grow with DP.
- Laba needs support, better players around him, to succeed. "Guys not reacting to get open and not wanting the ball." I'd say that's a Lambe, Bostock and Ephraim being an issue, and maybe Hall.
- Given an opportunity to talk about Califf trade and whether it was working, Payne didn't talk about it.
- Koev is a proven goal scorer and will be used once he's healthy either with Robbie or sparing off each other, depending on what the coaching staff suggests. (I'd say that's him not being let go).
Not sure I agree with all that, but there ya go.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 05-13-2013 at 10:50 PM.
^ Very good summary, thanks!
I also just watched the rest of the interview clips which were all put on the TFC website. As mentioned, good idea for everyone to watch all of them!
Again, hearing more context from Payne makes me calm down a bit, compared with first hearing about the TBH non-deal & a few other zingers via individual quotes. But I still worry that he's not analyzing the problems fully, especially the late goals. Too much one-sided emphasis on the defense for example. Sorry KP, there have been significant portions of the games where Toronto has not been competitive at all. Even the one MLS win we've had, vs. KC, there was lots of luck involved, some periods where TFC really benefited more from luck and poor KC finishing than anything TFC did themselves.
A final note, I don't always agree with John Molinaro, but here's a very good point:
John Molinaro @JohnMolinaro5h
Other thing the struck me is Payne made no mention of mistakes he's made or his accountability, only that players aren't good enough. #TFC
I agree! For example, just a simple "yeah we really screwed up that Ben Haim announcement last Thursday, we will learn from that" would have done lots to soften reaction to an obviously embarrassing situation. Anyway, that's enough for my 2222 cents worth, I should just drop this all for a while.
Fantastic summary indeed!
You hit on most of the crucial points.
Make sure to watch the inverview(s), fantastic transparency provided by Payne, he really does know how to speak diplomatically. I think he is honest on most things he says and that's key.
Some insight.
Summer signing Attacking central mid:: Alex Lopez..... that would be a nice piece. Hes strong in a 4-2-3-1. Laba in the 2 with hall or someone else. Looks good.
Rumours about where Califf would end up: Whitecaps looking for answers with a plethora of attacking options and an apparently lack of MLS savvyness on the backline.
I want Koffie. Manneh perhaps.
I dont think Califf is good enough for either but one can hope. I think it was a joke to take Bekker before Manneh (I called manneh being taken 3rd overall by TFC pre-draft). Bekker is lazy and will not play d.
I would unload Silva to Chivas for some bucks
never! he's a critical piece for the team's future.
I think 'heart' comes in there.
I don't feel like he is giving his all here. In Chivas he would.
Not sure why we would do that as we don't really need the money. I do think we will need a decent injury replacement/sub for whatever creative midfielder we get; Silva fits that perfectly. If we trade him, we'll be just having to get somebody else.
And, like Laba, I don't think he has the pieces around him to do what he can do. The pass to Osorio reminds me of what he can do.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 05-14-2013 at 06:14 AM.
Silvamis the best young playernwe have, barring laba. He's someone we should be thinking of building around and keeping long term, not dealing away. We have sent too many prospects away, i want to see at least one develop.
Assets can be traded for assets though. Garbage will be shipped for likewise.
If Chivas wants to overpay, ring the register. He's good, but not untouchable.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...Vancouver.html
Jermaine Pennant to TFC?
Is Pennant the 1.5-2 year player Payne spoke of?
We need a good winger.
I just wish players saw TFC as a place to work their ass off to make a statement.
Bostock and Ephraim should be KILLING it on the pitch, Bostock at least is sitting there fucking the dog.
Last edited by Abou Sky; 05-14-2013 at 08:25 AM.
I like Silva, but I think he's one of the players that won't go to the well for you do everything to win. It's funny that so many people talk about our defensive problems late in games being in part about inability to hold possession in the midfield. When he's playing in the central midfield, he's a big part of that. Possession in the attacking half comes from him. We're really not getting that from him. There's a reason he's being tried out in so many places on the pitch and why we are floating the idea of a DP attacking midfielder. And at 24 or 25, his development is pretty much done. I know he's only a second year player, but he at his age you should have high expectations - he's not a build for the future piece, he is a should be delivering now piece. Again I like him, but I think he's one who needs to take Payne's comments yesterday as a wake-up call.
I think we need to become a comparative team before the first starts to happen. I don't mean champions, but not perenial bottom feeders. Lack of competition for spots hurts here as well.
In regards to the latter - this is always a risk with a player like Bostock for a couple of reasons. One, there is a risk that the past hype has gone to his head and he feels he is above TFC/MLS (a la Stevanovic. No clue if Bostock suffers here - I'm talking generally). Two, he has bags of ability but has not been able to stick at a higher level. Attitude plays as much a part as ability (more some say) to being successful at a high level, and maybe we are now seeing the reason he hasn't stuck at that level.
Jackson is on the outs with Norwich and probably destined for Championship at best. Not sure if there would be mutual interest but considering TFC is perpetually trawling the English football league for whatever we can find, weirder things have happened.
I think we already had this discussion about Pennant when that article came out. There is reason to believe he wouldn't get entry into the US. That looked like an article fed to a paper by an agent.
I'm going to make a brash prediction: Silva will be traded.
My predictions; Califf traded for an international roster spot. At least one of our loanees having their deals terminated.
I get the feeling from Payne's interview that we might try to trade Koev. This makes me sad because I would hate to see him wear another MLS team's jersey. For one, he didn't really have a lot to say about him other than that he can find the net. I also got the impression that they were looking to bring in two DPs this summer, which won't be possible with Koevermans already taking a spot.
Koev is a hard sell in MLS, no matter how good his record is.
35 yr old striker coming off a major injury and not match fit? And a DP plus int spot? Not many teams will take a chance.
He'd be better shopped around after this season when he has proven himself that he can still do the job, but then, his contract would be expired anyways
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
"My predictions; Califf traded for an international roster spot. At least one of our loanees having their deals terminated."
^ I can see that. Safer than my prediction though
Silva doesn't play well as an attack minded midfielder in a 4-4-2. He's been tried as a holding mid in the system, as the number 10 and now as a wide midfielder. I just don't think he fits the system. He's a very good player, and valuable, but he needs a 4-2-3-1 or something where he can play offensively and not have the same level of defensive responsibility. I think he'll be traded while he still has value. Osorio in my mind has the potential to be a better player and is younger. And with Payne discussing the possibility of a DP attacking mid, I think Silva will end up going. The fact that he's been tried in so many places tells me a lot.
And I want Avila back. He would be a good domestic winger/AM and he's better than any winger we have right now, and better AM than Silva. I say we dump Ephraim or Bostock and trade the international spot to Chivas for Avila. Then Chivas can use that spot to bring in a Mexican from the big Chivas on loan to take his place. They get an other mexican, we get a good, cheap winger: that's a win - win trade right there
Huge mistake, imo. Great salary against the cap, has been a sort of super sub (like Osorio) when he comes on late - i could see his role being diminished, but considering he's not a salary hit like some other underperforming players, why move him - any asset Toronto gets will not be better than the intangibles Silva brings, i guarantee you - not many can play in the middle well, he is one of those that can. Plus, i really think the guy is solid if he had the right players around him - no one on the wings attacks, or works as hard as this guy, and that is the problem - if this team was better going forward, we would not be looking to move this kid at all - so why get rid of one of the few players that actually attacks?
I still think Silva can work in a 4-4-2, but you're right. Silva is a pure AM/SS and doesn't do well when he has to do a lot of defending. He may still work out in a 4-3-1-2 or 4-4-2 diamond, but it looks like Nelsen wants wingers. Personally thought he did well in second striker role, especially last year paired with Hassli and to lesser extent Earnshaw, but ya. He doesn't quite fit the the 2 way CM Nelsen wants.
Which is too bad since he's been good for TFC, whenever he doesn't have to play a big defensive role. And may still work out if Laba turns out to be a stud DM who can cover a lot of ground a la Alonso to shield the back 4 and Silva doesn't have to track back so often. The thing is, Silva is like the only really creative playmaker for TFC right now that's somewhat proven. Maybe Osorio will pan out, and Bekker too. But that's looking a year or two down the road, and if Silva is not part of the future with TFC, I'd rather trade him now than later. I'd be very sad if Silva does get traded though. You don't get too many pure playmakers like him from MLS, at his salary.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Avila is not a better AM than Silva. I'd put my left nut on the line with this statement.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
I don't want to see him go either, I'm just putting myself in the minds of the coaches and that's what I see happening. Just a wild guess.
I second that... Hell, I'll double-down!! #2nutsonthetable
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2013/05...bennett-morgan
Bennett and T. Morgan waived. Unsurprising, really.
Reds waive Bennett and Morgan
Expected, they were signed just to fill out the bare bones roster at the beginning of the year. Frees up two roster spots and one international spot.
He's a proven goal scorer in the last year of his contract. If he makes his return at the end of this month, and becomes a regular in june/july and proves he's over his injury, he could become a very attractive option to any team looking to make a push for the cup. If we're just looking to offload him to get his DP spot, he would be a cheap, low risk high reward striker for any team with ambitions this year.
And if someone hires PM between now and then, we could get a first round pick for him
I think Silva played really well at the top of the midfield diamond. But he doesn't really fit any other role than that whether in a 4-4-2, or another formation. He didn't look great in a 4-2-3-1 either when we played it last year. He's one of those players who's good but doesn't really have a position.
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