^ You say it's easy when you have picks 1 and 3. If so, then why haven't we ever seen this quality of decision making before? It only looks easy because KP does it so well.
Yes
No
Meh
^ You say it's easy when you have picks 1 and 3. If so, then why haven't we ever seen this quality of decision making before? It only looks easy because KP does it so well.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 01-18-2013 at 08:16 AM.
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Couldn't agree more. Payne acted like a proper President/GM during the draft and I really like the direction he went in by drafting two local boys and grabbing some easy cash. I think we did quite well.Originally Posted by West220Side
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
I wouldn't call it easy. Easy would be to take Farrell and Bekker and call it a day. It takes smarts to trade a pick 3 times and collect allocation while still getting your guy. But you're right that he was dealt a great hand by walking into the first pick. But don't forget he was also the one who traded for the 3rd. Another smart trade that also netted us allocation.
http://www.mlssoccer.com/superdraft/...rgets-and-more
Payne explains how his game worked out in the draft
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Haha, yeah I approve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An20eXvL6As
Don't wat to jinx Bekker, but I think he'll be the best long-term pick from the draft. I know him from Oakville (played pick up with him a few times) and maybe I'm a bit biased but, I think hes got the potential to be a real contributor for TFC and eventually the Canadian men national team. Really happy he is going to get to play close to home and develop his game even further.
Payne seemed to do his homework on the draft.
I'm shocked we came away with the top 2 Canadians AND roughly $400k-$500k of cap space.
The precision on that FK shows a player with really good potential. Spinning in at the post 2/3 up makes it virtual impossible to stop.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Great and interesting moves. Glad we have mr Payne on our side
Still a lot of holes to fill.
Lets spend some of that money now.
All I'm saying is, Toronto FC didn't do anything miraculous here: they took the two Canadian players and maneuvered around Vancouver and Montreal, took a risk going down to 16, and had it pay off for a player who, unfortunately, hasn't had the best college career.
And we haven't seen this kind of wheeling and dealing, sure, but no other team has turned a first pick into a 16th either. Most teams would just take the top pick and then trade that player for his value, but in any case, Toronto can say they did well only if Bekker and Welshman produce. Otherwise, this draft will be remembered as the one where Toronto FC gave up Farrell or Zimmerman or Zavaleta, etc.
Tell me one draft that we COULDN'T say we gave someone up? What miracle were you looking for?
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Why pick a CB when we already have two that are younger, more experienced, and "better"? And yes, Zavaleta appears to be lining up as a CB.
With no playing time, Armen, any of the three guys you mention's development would stall, and they would go nowhere fast. KP even said that they rated both Henry and Boss higher than Farrell, who was the undisputed top CB in the draft (Zimmerman might have been if he had made the combine, but then there's the question of why he slid so much).
If we picked up even 400k in allocation (two majors for 1 to 4, and 4 to 10, then a minor for 10 to 16), plus the two guys they claim to have wanted (KP said they would have taken Welshman at 4) then how can you not say the draft was successful?
You definitely have to look at it in retrospect in a few years, and see how things turned out, but if they were going to pick those two anyways (which was the claim, but might be bravado), then you got something for "nothing" essentially.
The drafting of Bekker and Welshman can be analyzed in a few years, and the use of the allocation as well. But, for the use of allocation at least, those are separate things to look at.
I think he's trying to temper expectations based on the fact that pretty much the same percentage of people were crowing when we got Cronin, OBW, and Frei a few years back.
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KP would be the first to say (and in fact he did) that the best you can say about the draft is that you got who you wanted. The question of how good your choices are will only be settled over the next couple of years. Having said that, he got who he wanted, gave his marketing department a leg up, and scored allocation money big time. All in all, I don't think you could have asked for better.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
I haven't seen anything to suggest Zavaleta and Farrell are anything but internet hype. We'll know 3 or 4 years down the line, but when we have a lot of immediate gaps it's hard to not like Payne's increasing our capacity to sign players now rather than hope these guys pan out a few years from now.
I just realized we don't have that first round supplemental pick (and Bennet) because of the Quincy Amerikwa trade......
I guess we have earned that leaf on our jersey. Move over Vancouver, we are the C.C.
I am excited about this year and the near future of our squad. What a turn around, feels great!!!!
If Payne can turn this team around while doing with Canadian players I think a lot of us will be impressed. As for the draft, I'm ok with it. Needed the allocation money for more players and we seem to have gotten at least one decent player who could start right away.
Even if Farrell, Zimmerman, or Zavaleta end up being the next Omar Gonzalez, they would never have developed into that with TFC, as they would have been sitting at least 5th on the depth chart in terms of CBs, due to the fact that TFC rate both Henry and Boss higher than any of those three, and O'Dea and Califf are going to be our starters likely.
It's sad that the only way you get game time in MLS is to play on the first team. I'm hopeful that this agreement with USL comes through and we either get a proper reserve league, or solid loan options.
Kevin Payne killed this draft!
Draft as always, is getting prospective players who in theory have potentials to become starters or at least depth players. Their value is often realized in 2-3 years horizon (outliers at both ends of course). Therefore we can't really quantify the immediate impact. Not only has Kevin acquired two local boys who, at the best case both turn to starters in 2-3 years, won't use up international spots, but also amassed immediate and quantifiable asset in allocation money. He has addressed the immediate financial turmoil legacy from past regimes and adding younger future prospects to the program.
How he uses the allocation is to be evaluated at a different time. How Bekkar and Welshman pan out, is to be evaluated at a different time.
How did Kevin perform in this draft, he owned it!
Anyone else notice when one of the MLS analysts said that Vancouver would certainly win the Canadian Championship? Pretty bold statement to make IMO
Last edited by Ajax TFC; 01-18-2013 at 11:30 AM.
Well we definitely wasted pick number one. Trading down for Welshman in exchange for allocation will only work if we get at least two high quality players. Otherwise, well, I think we will be looking back at this draft and wishing for more or better.
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Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
They should just hand it to us now. Save them the heart ache of playing through it.
Agreed, as far as I can see that valuation is pretty straight forward. We have two players who have both been tested at the pro level and show lots of promise. The comparisons are a couple of guys who stood out at a lower level who haven't proven anything outside of it.
It's worth noting that DC United basically leads the league in terms of getting loans for their young players. So hopefully that's a trend that can continue here because we probably have a few talents in the academy who aren't MLS ready but shouldn't waste their time in the NCAA.
Think of it this way, since Payne said they would've taken Bekker 1st if they had to. TFC traded Johnson and Kocic for Bendik, Welshman, and allocation from 4 different teams. Hard to argue that's not a good trade.
not sure what draft you were watching but PK was impressive to say the least. we came out with a lot more flexibility dollar-wise and got what we wanted player-wise. As Payne said he would have picked Bekker with the #1 pick anyway, and yes i do believe him.
I watched the same draft you did. I watched us give our first pick for the 16th. I also saw us pick up allocation money that may or may not work out. I will reserve judgement on this draft based on the production of Bekker on the field, and the quality of players we purchase with allocation money. Otherwise, Toronto FC wasted their first pick. If the players we sign with this allocation are gone by the end of the year, we wasted the pick, end of story.
In the end, draft picks work out more often than foreign signings, Toronto FC is taking a risk by focusing on the latter instead of the former. If it works, we look like geniuses. If it doesn't, we look foolish.
Yeah I find it kind of funny people are describing this draft as low-risk compared to the market but let's look back at the last three years of draft history. How many guys on those lists would you give up 3 allocations for?
If it's like 2010 the answer is zero
2011 or 2012 then maybe a handful
Throw in the adjustment problems of foreign kids Payne identified and HGP status sapping the talent from the draft, it's not as low-risk to bank on a draft pick as people are describing. FFS Portland dumped their draft pick to us and their coach probably understands the level of talent more than anybody else. What does that tell you?
We basically traded Farrell for ~$500k + Welshman. It'll come down to who has the better career and what we use the $500k for.
We got two Canadians, one of whom we tried to sign before but couldn't. I guess a good sign is that Winter was the one who was interested in the player, not Mariner. So the guy must be good, right?
We also got fake money. Really depends on who we get with that fake money.
So at the end of the draft, we have a bunch of question marks.
I wouldn't call it a success, but it's not a failure either. it is what it is.
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