Also, I don't care about optics. In pro sports, optics are for deceiving people. I want transparency and what is really happening.
Also, I don't care about optics. In pro sports, optics are for deceiving people. I want transparency and what is really happening.
And I never said that! Well, this is going well...Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff
Everything Hart has ever done is drawn into question by the fact that its be done for the CSA. You can't really get an objective valuation off that, because the organization is so dysfunctional it's hard to tell if someone is doing good work.
As of right now, Canaidans have very little to do with TFC's success or failure. That could change in the future, but at the current point and time, it's more likely that it will be based on our ability to draft scout americans and pick up internationals. The valid comparison (if we're talking scouting) is Payne vs. Hart btw, it's not Nelsen vs. Hart. Because we've split scouting / coaching duties.
When I see how many coaches from GB don't have license,no wonder English NT is in such a bad shape and without any decent results since'66,EPL is full with coaches from all over the world(with licenses of course).
not going to get this job until he proves he can get past the NT debacle.
http://nasn.tv/2013/the-big-question-episode-14/
An hr long discussion of TFC. Interesting that Stollar thinks Kevin Payne is a egotistical control freak. Apparently meddled in picking first teams and suchOn this edition of The Big Question, host Aaron Stollar is joined by Duane Rollins, Managing Editor of Canadian Soccer News and Richard Whittall, Editor of Score Media Inc’s Counter Attack blog. Today’s show focuses on the recent appointments of Kevin Payne as President and General Manager and Ryan Nelsen as head coach as well as Toronto FC’s current ownership structure.
A lot of interesting stuff worth listening to (esp if you're an Anti Payne guy lol)
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
He's a European style manager - he'll pick the team with input from the coaching staff.
He just won't stroll the sidelines making funny gesticulations.
Better then Saputo picking the team.
Yes. The following since "EPL" is all that matters the British types on the board. I doubt if the Kiwi was playing in Holland there'd be any joy in UK village.
- Jim Brennan – Norwich City F.C. – 2004–05
- Terry Dunfield – Manchester City F.C. – 2000–01
- David Edgar – Newcastle United F.C., Burnley F.C. – 2006–10
- Craig Forrest – Ipswich Town F.C., Chelsea F.C., West Ham United F.C. – 1992–95, 1996–01
- David Hoilett – Blackburn Rovers F.C., QPR – 2009–2012, 2012-
- Simeon Jackson – Norwich City F.C. – 2011–12
- Tomasz Radzinski – Everton F.C., Fulham F.C. – 2001–07
- Paul Stalteri – Tottenham Hotspur F.C., Fulham F.C. – 2005–08
- Frank Yallop – Ipswich Town F.C. – 1992–95
Hell are few are actually still playing. They're in BOLD and I think we could dig into the Ontario College system for assistants if the current bench mark for those is NCAA Div 3 squads in Maine. lol
Last edited by Toronto; 01-11-2013 at 07:32 PM.
I'm listening to the podcast now. Bit put off by Stollar's long monologue about Payne (about midway through).
Stollar really really really doesn't like Payne.
I finished listening to it but I get the sense that Duane R and Whittall weren't on there to talk about TFC but rather for Stollar to tell them about how terrible Payne is. Meh.
Last edited by Detroit_TFC; 01-11-2013 at 07:46 PM.
[QUOTE=Oldtimer;1551578]My concern for Nelsen actually isn't with the lack of badges. /QUOTE]
That's all I'll say about that.
It's interesting they attributed DC's loss of performance over the last couple of years to KP, however they forget last year when they were runners up in the East.
Last edited by PopePouri; 01-11-2013 at 09:01 PM.
Lol, I don’t know who you’re trying to paint into that corner but you won’t find me extoling the virtues of the way the English do things or the EPL. As for the players you’ve listed, which ones do you think have the personal characteristics of Ryan Nelsen? I’m going to go with none of them.
For the D3 coach, you’re missing the point. He’s not here because he’s a D3 coach; he’s here because he’s highly familiar with both Nelsen and Payne. On a team where people always had such an issue working with each other we are eliminating all the guess work. No more Winter says X Mariner does Y. No more Mo Johnston does A and coach does Z.
We are putting together a group of people who can work together for the first time and are highly-familiar with each other. I’m not guaranteeing it is going to work or going to deny in some ways it looks speculative, but it makes a lot more sense than finding mis-mashes of external candidates who we really don’t know if they will work together.
or actively trying to sabotage each other...
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Their view of KP doesn't match what DC Supporters say about the man.
In the end KP will be judged by if the team wins, not by whether his style is hands on. Hands on is only a problem if it's an engineer making the decisions.
People...can we please give Payne the benefit of the doubt and get behind the boys in red this season?
I've been as vocal as many in demanding Anselmi out, Mariner and Cochrane out and lower ST prices. We've got all but Cochrane out so I'd humbly suggest we cut Payne some slack, see how this all pans out over the season and make judgement then.
I get that the optics of hiring a coach who may or may not be here til June is a tad unusual and a massive gamble, but the guy built a friggin dynasty in DC so let's give him time to see what he can do here.
[QUOTE=Redpunkfiddle;1551632]hehe, i was waiting for that!
Ahhh, but we could have had Peter Wilt instead of Payne (fired from Chicago in 2005 and hasn't worked in MLS since). Yes, its gotten that ridiculous.
I'm with you, Cityboy. I'm giving them this season to prove their stuff. A significant improvement is all I need to see for this year.
this x1000
When we all wanted a soccer president, many would have been happy with anyone with a half decent record (as evidenced by the calls for Wilt). Instead we got the guy in charge of the most successful team in MLS. Now people are all over him for his first choice before even seeing how it works out
I'm really starting to get the feeling that a lot of our media types around here wouldn't have been happy with the selection of president unless it was their obviously superior choice. seems like the hockey media is rubbing some of their self righteousness off on them.........
Side before self, every time - The one and only Billy Bremner
Supporting TFC and Leeds United : Never a dull moment
yup, I'm looking forward to a man with vision, grit and class being in our organization...BUT most of all there is no way we do not have a rock solid back-4, after a few games Nelson will demand that and know how to get it done and that is the essential beginning, of quality. Maybe even Ecks will simply play his position for once...sorry but he's easily beaten if you realize he's always overaggressive. Anyway we may fair badly but , start with the back 4, then next year get aggressive for goals, and MID's. Thats all I ask.People...can we please give Payne the benefit of the doubt and get behind the boys in red this season?
I've been as vocal as many in demanding Anselmi out, Mariner and Cochrane out and lower ST prices. We've got all but Cochrane out so I'd humbly suggest we cut Payne some slack, see how this all pans out over the season and make judgement then.
I get that the optics of hiring a coach who may or may not be here til June is a tad unusual and a massive gamble, but the guy built a friggin dynasty in DC so let's give him time to see what he can do here.
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_deman...-Interview.mp3
did anyone listen to this Kevin Payne interview?
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
That was posted here several days ago. It's a good interview.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 01-13-2013 at 11:10 PM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
The New Zealander Ryan Nelsen is most often compared with - Wynton Rufer - believes the new Toronto manager has every chance of succeeding in his latest endeavour and predicts a managerial career for Nelsen that could go beyond the MLS.
Former World Cup All Whites coach John Adshead thinks that Nelsen's future could possibly include managing in the English Premier League or other big competitions.
Rufer, one of the few Kiwis with experience of football at the highest level, spending six successful seasons with Werder Bremen in the Bundesliga, has no doubts Nelsen has got what it takes.
"He has so much experience and knows what is coming," says Rufer. "And in his mind, he will believe he is ready. To make it as a footballer at the highest level, you have to have an unbelievable level of self-confidence - and Ryan won't lose that. It's a massive opportunity and an unbelievable position to get, really - to go straight into such a position from playing is very rare in football."
Rufer adds a note of caution, saying the scale of the challenge cannot be underestimated.
"There is obviously a lot to do [at Toronto]," says Rufer. "The owners are on his side and will be patient but he will need to deliver. He'll need to make good signings, build good structures and make good decisions."
The 35-year-old will be one of the youngest managers in a major professional league.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news...ectid=10858748Adshead adds that Nelsen's Premier League background at blue collar clubs (excepting his brief spell at Spurs) set him up well for the challenges ahead.
"The managers that he has worked with - Mark Hughes, Steve Kean, Sam Allardyce - never had millions of pounds to spend and couldn't just buy any players they wanted," says Adshead. "That is a great learning environment. I think he has got the ability - possibly - to eventually manage in the Premier League or one of the other big competitions, though at the moment, he is completely untried. The next 12-18 months could lay the platform for the rest of his life."
Last edited by Oldtimer; 01-14-2013 at 09:01 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
I watched the Tottenham-QPR game Saturday morning. Both commentators thought Nelsen would be a top coach (for what that's worth). I have yet to hear anyone who has any significant knowledge of Ryan Nelsen say anything other than he'll be a great coach.
The only negative comments have come from those with ulterior motives (Devos with getting jobs for Canadians & "Badges!!!") and the media guys that are bitter their valuable inside source and drama creator Paul Mariner is gone.
This is a new era for TFC. I think as supporters/fans/onlookers who come to a supporters message board 15 times a day... should give the "new" club a chance to prove itself. Let's not jump down the throats of the team until at least August/September.
The same should be done for Nelsen. Let's not entertain the idea that it's time to call for his head or constantly complain about his lack of experience until at least the end of the season. It's one thing to discuss it, it's another to thing to bicker like little old ladies.
August/Sept even seems a bit premature. Results aren't expected this year from the club, they haven't hidden that.
I just want to see progress....and if it's seen, then someone punching Anselmi when his ADD kicks in and his hand starts to hover the BIG RED ABORT button. Progress doesn't mean results either....this team has alot of work to do just to get going towards regular results. Until those steps are taken, it's just pissing in the wind and trying to stay dry. Do the work Nelsen and you got my support always.
Also remember - Nelsen isn't here to create TFC's on-field product, he is here to execute Payne's vision of the on-field product.
Payne himself said he is a meddler. Which means he wants to call the shots in terms of playing style, player selection, player management etc. He is the one leading the draft.
This is what people on the message board wanted and they bombarded Anselmi with this message. They wanted a president who would run the club and be accountable for what happens on the pitch. When a president is the person dictating the vision of the club, then everyone else is just an executor of that vision (i.e Brian Burke and the Leafs setup).
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