as usual well written and taking a informed viewOriginally Posted by PopePouri
as usual well written and taking a informed view
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
well said....now if we give our canucks a decent chance , can't ask for much more.....a slow steady progression is fine , good character is great to stand behindI'm with you Alonso! I am baffled by the negativity today. Almost to a person, the posters to this board have agreed for a long time that the huge underlying problem has been culture and character. A culture built by Anselmi - a corrupt, incompetent, bureaucratic, political culture that spawned a six year, groundhog day circus. Most agreed - for things to turn around, the major contributors/architects to the culture had to go - Anselmi, Cochrane, Bierne. For many, after a time, Mariner was added to the list.
Today is a great day - a strong, harmful, negative influence is gone (Mariner), and we have added someone with strong character who will add to a positive winning culture for this team. You can dream of a single coach (or player) signing somehow miraculously turning this team around, but it ain't gonna happen until you have the right people in there culturally (and the wrong people out).
Face facts - We are the undisputed, worst team in the world. I don't recall ANYBODY disputing this claim - even among supporters on this board. This signing is as good as it gets (for now).
Without a doubt, the next challenge is moving Cochrane out. Keeping him as the coffee gopher or the guy who operates the sprinklers at half time may sound OK, but Payne has to move him out, in order to continue to improve the team. Cochrane has fouled the nest badly and will be a negative influence on the culture, by his very presence - he represents the old way of doing things - politics + incompetence. If Payne moves Cochrane out the door quickly, this will signal a real dawn of a new era. Stay tuned!
Perhaps a new poll should be started: "How many games will Cochrane last?" (For those politically correct among us, I would note that I have not suggested a "Deathwatch" thread!)
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
I disagree call me crazy but if somehow the mgr and coach can get us playing as a team.....I think we will be a very tough and surprising challenge....I'm very happy to have seasons..( at a reasonable rate of course)..lol......now just get rid of our ties with Hassili and Plata , goaltender Hall ...PS Eckersley had better become a 'team' player quickly (stop running around like a banshee)...or he is too costly also.....the great thing with our new coach is he'll quickly teach all our backs how to team-up....fantastic.
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
^I don't see it, but you might be right. Here's hoping.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Chicken Little? ya cause hiring a guy who won't show up until June and has never run a practice let alone a game aided by a guy who just got his pro license and has been coaching NCAA div 3 for the last 7 years isn't rock bottom, I don'y know what is.
This will the final decision that kills TFC. Mark my words. And in 3 years all we will have left is watching Toronto Serbia vs Toronto Croatia in North York.
The Cool aid drinkers seem to be getting their scarf hopes up again. man the fall this time will be brutal.
can't blame people for being a little concerned. once bitten....or i should say chewed to death for years will do that.
let's hope Nelsen comes in and does a great job. for now Payne and O'Leary will have to run the show. this is the hand we have been dealt.
Anyone know of any QPR boards equivalent to the RPB site? I would love to read their opinions on this subject.
Im fustrated knowing there is the posibility he wont come until June. This looks bad from an outsiders perspective, we already have one of the worst reps in the western hemisphere and this just cements it for people.
I really hope this works out.
QPR is a nice team with an old history (notice I didn't say great history, they haven't won much), but they are not getting out of the relegation zone. it just doesn't happen at this time of the year in the position they are in. Nelsen staying will not change that.
I have heard that some DC fans aren't happy about this. the way I heard it he has a Dichio kinda status.
have you taken the time to learn about the coach you are dissing?....yes we will have a huge learning curve ...that would happen anyway...but the new coach will earn huge respect from our guys and work with Payne to demand respect....thats all we need this year....BS is not in Nelson's resume and he knows our league ,..has won in our league...Harry REdknapp respects him....we are in the perfect spot with nowhere to go but up and quite frankly ..I didn`t think we could get as far as we have in this short space of time. He will at least shore up our defense AND that was our main problem and where to start. year 3 and 3 yes will be harder but we'll get it done. He'll be here before June. Sorry to disappoint you but we're going enjoy the slow ascent towards respectability...you on the other hand should eat more leafy greens to fight that constipation.
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
Yeah, they are screwed they'd have to have a magician like Harry running them to escape from this one. Oh ... wait, hang on a minute ...
You know it's not all that dire for QPR yet ... they are only 5 points from safety with 17 games to play. On the other hand, it is hard to see easy points in their schedule. Their next 4 home fixtures are Tottenham, Man City, Norwich and Man Utd. Though the last 5 are easier, other than Arsenal.
I'm torn ... I'm pretty neutral, but I've been cheering for QPR more than anything else this season. If Nelson is as critical to the QPR pysche as some make out, they'd be crazy to let him go. And he looks like the rare player who they'd force to stay, and he'd STILL perform.
Derek you are freaking awesome!
LOL, very true, if anyone can do it Snake Oil Arry can!
the fixtures for Reading and Wigan look slightly easier for the next 5.
at the end of the day as a TFC supporter I'd prefer he was here now. I'd also prefer to have a lot more money and be taller. unfortunately none of those things are happening.
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foot...r-8444054.html
Gallas linked to QPR.
I don't think 'Arry will hold Nelsen at QPR, unless he absolutely gets nobody in Jan transfer window (and considering how rich QPR is, 'Arry is going to sign somebody). I think Nelsen said something like, 'Gaffer, I'm manager of Toronto FC. I know we are in a relegation fight, so if you really need me, I'll stay. But I'd really appreciate it if you allow me to be released from my contract.'
It's a respect thing. Nelsen could have just retired to come to TFC (though drama of that would get messy. But 'Arry respects Nelsen as a professional, and as a fellow manager now, so both are just trying to come up with a solution to satisfy both parties ASAP.
We will know by end of Jan whether Nelsen is staying until May, or be available in Feb
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Of course that is where is at Yohan - hit the nail on the head! The Chicken Littles can fret about May/June/July, but good folk make good stuff happen - the likelihood of a really late transfer is next to remote. The Chicken Littles are looking at how MLSE has worked in the past - not how folk with character and integrity make things happen.
The little chickens of the world should suck it up, and be patient - there is a new sheriff in town....
I'm not too worried, I followed DC in MLS before TFC came along. Payne operates totally different from what people here are used to, and I have a tonne of respect for him. If he thinks Nelsen can do the job, he's probably right.
Like 4 MLS Cups and 4 supporters shields kind of right.
I personally think this situation is messy. I mean why hire someone who's thoughts are on QPR?I think they should have gotten someone else, and if this guy is the real deal, then wait for him to finish with QPR before coming here. I mean O'leary will be building a team, and could be radically different than Nelsen's team. if that's the case we will be doing what we do best.... rebuild.
I personally think they jumped the gun on this. fire Mariner sure, but have someone in place, not someone who will "Occasionally" be there for TFC while another guy is doing all the coaching . But like Yohan says, maybe they will find someone to replace him and release him early from his contract who knows.
Just my 2 cents.
I think Payne's being honest when he says he's been considering Nelsen for coaching for years; Nelsen was an assistant while in college and Redknapp has commented publicly on his leadership capabilities. Some people have those characteristics in spades; Ben Olson and Jason Kreis are both good examples.
As such, it's not hasty at all. It's something Payne's wanted to try for a while. Given his record at DC, I can't say he's wrong this early.
^^^ Ill give Payne the benefit of the doubt considering how fond DC United thinks of him. Im just still on the fence on this coaching way, maybe ill come around maybe i won't, wont know until the season is well under way.
Thank you
Except Payne will be the one building the team. That's the way it was always going to be, and if Payne feels that Nelsen can coach the team that he's going to build, than he's probably right.
Also with that setup, a rookie coach is probably a good thing because he wont come with a huge ego and need to have everything done his own way
Looking back at this….
I actually think there is a reasonable chance this guy will turn out to be a great coach, but that presser was wow… if I ever teach a university class on public relations, I will save that tape to show people what not to do. The whole press conference read something like: “Ryan is our new coach and a great leader, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know, thanks for coming out!”.
Nelsen’s performance was awful. He didn’t even shoot down the softball question of whether he was going to play for NZ in the next world cup for fear of offending his coach and FA. No need to dance around it: you’re not playing, it’s obvious. It was example of a larger problem that repeated itself as he went through questions. He’s presented as a leader, but everything after that had an aura of uncertainty behind it and conveyed a bunch of qualities that weren’t very leader-like at first glance to the press. It also didn’t make it sound like he was very committed to TFC.
Looks to me like they made the mistake of thinking the press would know Nelsen enough to understand why he would be a good hire. Maybe Payne took for granted that this isn’t DC and most simply aren’t familiar with his track record. Either way, they simply didn’t sell it right off the top, the bottom fell out when they handled the questions poorly, and everyone left rightfully wondering WTF was going on.
I think if you look past their awful PR performance you can get closer to the reasons why this is a good hire. They just didn't flesh it out for us which they rightfully deserve to be called on. That wasn’t run up to a professional standard you’d expect a club like TFC would be eager to covey after years of ineptitude. So I can see how this left more than a few people upset.
Last edited by ag futbol; 01-10-2013 at 01:23 AM.
you might want to check this out ... i recently came across some really old newsreel footage of the all blacks doing the haka.
http://www.britishpathe.com/search/q.../1890/end/1950
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/ma...cry/query/haka
Looks like Redknapp's looking at the Baggies' Olsson as well...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...f-west-1526725
this article suggests Nelsen may stay at QPR until the MLS season starts and then leave...
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foot...r-8444054.html
Luckily you won't have to witness it with you just showing up for Playoffs until the team folds...
And like I said, There's football at Lamport. That's closer to BMO than North York if your too frustrated with all things MLSE.
It's been presented pretty clearly that Payne has a better history at finding new coaching talent than anyone else previously in our organization. If you don't approve of trying new coaching talent I'd have to ask who is it with experience that we missed that would want to come here?
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 01-10-2013 at 08:26 AM.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I know what you are saying but I am sick of the pre packaged pablum we are fed every day of our lives, and the overwhelming importance of "PR" as though it matters. It's a reminder to me of what George Carlin said: "Think of how stupid the average person is. Now think about the fact that half of the people are stupider than that".
Not one of these reporters (some percentage of whom are probably consumed by jealousy because they want the job) took the time to point of the obvious - which is, the announcement was rushed, and made prematurely, for whatever reason. At least in part because Nelsen had to do a transatlantic round-trip, and it had to be Monday because he currently plays in the Premier League. Which meant:
- Redknapp had no ability to work his replacement yet, so they couldn't say anything about that with the degree of certainty they wanted
- Nelsen hadn't spoken to NZ, and maybe the greatest NZ footballer in history doesn't think it's appropriate to signal his retirement via another squad's press conference 8,000 miles away.
Payne handled it different than Anselmi would have, because he doesn't care. Wow. I love it. Leaf fans got their first look at how Anselmi does it yesterday, endlessly bobbing and weaving. I'll take Payne, thanks.
Nelsen wasn't given the respect he deserved at that press conference. de Vos saying "it's the most bizarre hiring in MLS history" ... what a low blow. As if Kreis and Olson don't exist. Just on de Vos' watch, Chris Cummins, coming in via the Reading Academy, was a stranger hire than Nelsen is. Some of this maybe is because player coaches, and battlefield promotions of player to coach, are rare in NA sports, but more common in football. de Vos would know that.
Riding this guy because he may/will start late, without commenting on the fact that Payne is responsible for player acquisition, the draft, and for signings, is also unfair. Nelsen wasn't hired in the Aron Winter role. But everybody in the media acted as though he was.
This whole thing says more about us than it does about the hire, and reflects incredibly badly on Toronto. I know we are bruised by the past here, but the outside world doesn't know that.
I'm embarassed by how our fans and our media treated Nelsen, and by the coverage our reaction got internationally. I hope Nelsen knows that at least a few people see that.
Last edited by ensco; 01-10-2013 at 08:41 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Agree with every single word ensco has said above. I don't have the ability to summarize it as elegantly as you did.
lol @ Carlin. Awesome! Thanks for reminding me. I'm going to rewatch some of his stuff.
I've got to agree with you on the point of media and "fans". People seem to want to applaud other respectable and storied clubs and supporters but don't want to put the time or effort it takes to give it a day before they write anything new off with the first setback.
Why give them a chance when we've disappointed? If one isn't going to give them a chance move on.
Reading comments from some of those "fans" I groan to think at the distance between us.
I know how sick most of us are of the fan comparisons in this town but there's your explanation, not reason, but explanation for the behavior to one bad press conference. Those "fans" (most not all) are about as invested in the team as they are in the other teams they shit on in certain social feeds. Or news articles. Or personal posts... A culture of cynical safety.
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 01-10-2013 at 08:56 AM.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I thought about Nelsen's hiring and I will reserve judgement until he actually coaches a game. The optics of the hiring look bad as he is still a QPR player at the moment. I will bet money on him being here by mid February at the latest.
On him not having his coaching license means nothing as I know coaches that have their license and they are useless. Jim Brennan has his license and that just goes to show you how it really doesn't matter.
At the end of the day his track record shows he is a leader of men. The FO is on the same page for the first time lets see how this plays out before we break out the pitch forks and try and lynch Nelsen, O'Leary and Payne.
Excellent. I felt the same way.
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