SBI - Nelsen to be named new Head Coach of TFC

**Toronto_Bhoy** · 01-08-2013, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by jloome

Nothing guarantees success as a manager, unless your name is Alex Ferguson.

To me, as some others have suggested here, you hire first based on the person's characteristics and second on their resume. I hired guys for years and people in management used to wonder how we could pick these gems out of the middle of nowhere, sometimes with no professional experience. And it's because they shared common character traits combined with some intimate knowledge of the sphere of influence.

He might flame out, but I doubt it. I think a year from now people will be happy we finally have a management team on the same page.

Could agree more jloome. Coaching experience does not translate into immediate success.

I too have hired my share of people who weren't even in the same industry, with great success, because there skills were transferrable, they brought fresh ideas and their core values aligned with those of the position and corporation. Many have been game breakers for us.

However, in a position where there was an immediate need to "right the ship" and "hit the ground running", I usually play the percentages. IMO, TFC are in this position, the margin for error is limited, the tolerance for failure is low, there is a degree of risk management that needs to waged. Your only summer sports competitor has gone for glory, perhaps MLSE should look down the street at how the Blue Jays have structured their management team. Time will tell.

TFC have created a slippery slope for themselves. When your business is hemorrhaging you need to stop the bleeding…STH and attendance are down, the Season One ticket prices is not sustainable and the competition down the street is looking to win it all.

I like the appointment of Kevin Payne. I read your posts, you've forgotten more about this league than I'll ever know but I do understand his hiring is as good as it gets…dare I say a masterstroke of fools. However, I believe a rookie coach is a massively unnecessary hiring risk with virtually zero wiggle room.

I hope I'm wrong but sense this was Plan C or D.

**Yohan** · 01-08-2013, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by ensco

And why does anyone think supporters will be less reasonable towards someone with less experience? What is that based on? I can pretty much guarantee you that if TFC are 500 in June, people will be over the moon, and if they're 3-8, a significant faction will want Nelsen (and maybe Payne) fired.

Kevin Payne has to engage in major PR campaign to temper supporter expectations.

I think in KP's mind, 2013 is a rebuilding season and playoff is not likely. In a lot of supporters mind, 2013 is year TFC makes playoffs, and if there is no tangible improvement from the start, people are going to be restless.

It's hard asking for more patience from TFC supporters after 6 years of shite, but I drank some kool aid. I'm willing to let a proven MLS guy like KP have some time to implement his vision of what TFC should be like.

**Yohan** · 01-08-2013, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Toronto_Bhoy

I like the appointment of Kevin Payne. I read your posts, you've forgotten more about this league than I'll ever know but I do understand his hiring is as good as it gets…dare I say a masterstroke of fools. However, I believe a rookie coach is a massively unnecessary hiring risk with virtually zero wiggle room.

I hope I'm wrong but sense this was Plan C or D.

KP is running Ben Olsen experiment Mark 2... He thinks Ryan Nelsen is similar character as Ben Olsen, and is willing to give Nelsen some time to develop into quality calibre of coach. Now I don't know if Nelsen will end up working out or not... and I think a lot of negative talk would be gone if this complication with QPR didn't come up...

Speculation, but I think even if Nelsen would retire right now, QPR would demand some sort of compensation from TFC. And by the sounds of it, Nelsen doesn't want to leave QPR when they need him. What a drama though.

**ag futbol** · 01-08-2013, 11:32 PM

You can find videos of Bowdoiin Soccer games on youtube to get an idea of what O'Leary's about. But if you're already highly pessimistic, I wouldn't recommend it.

Really not much there to judge.

**Yohan** · 01-09-2013, 01:00 AM

Reaction from New Zealand national team POV
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/8157300/

Nelsen and O'Leary in some sort of sports psychology partnership
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/footbal...r-young-talent

**Yohan** · 01-09-2013, 01:01 AM

Also, do we get to learn the haka now? lol
Honestly, how can you not feel pumped up after a haka?

The All Black Haka

By Te Rauparaha
Ka mate! Ka mate! Ka ora! Ka ora!
Ka mate! Ka mate! Ka ora! Ka ora!
Tenei te tangata puhuru huru
Nana nei i tiki mai
Whakawhiti te ra
A upa ... ne! ka upa ... ne!
A upane kaupane whiti te ra!
Hi!

The English translation:

I die! I die! I live! I live!
I die! I die! I live! I live!
This is the hairy man
Who fetched the Sun
And caused it to shine again
One upward step! Another upward step!
An upward step, another ... the Sun shines!!
Hi!

**Red CB Toronto** · 01-09-2013, 01:01 AM

After thinking about it further I have a lot of respect for how this is currently playing out. It is obvious that Kevin Payne has decided that Ryan Nelsen is the right guy for the long term future of the Reds. In many ways while I know it is not ideal, seeing QPR through until the end of the Premier League season makes me respect him a lot more as it shows the type of character he has, one that does not turn his back on anything. I am sure that if and/or when it becomes apparent that QPR is unable to rise above relegation Harry will allow Ryan to depart.

**tiberius** · 01-09-2013, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Alonso

...

I feel Payne and Nelsen have the same type of character which we have only seen glimpses of around here through guys like Dichio, Robinson, and Carver to name a few.

I am glad that these are the types of men running this club from the top down as this alone is a vast improvement from where we have been over the last 6 years.

I'm with you Alonso! I am baffled by the negativity today. Almost to a person, the posters to this board have agreed for a long time that the huge underlying problem has been culture and character. A culture built by Anselmi - a corrupt, incompetent, bureaucratic, political culture that spawned a six year, groundhog day circus. Most agreed - for things to turn around, the major contributors/architects to the culture had to go - Anselmi, Cochrane, Bierne. For many, after a time, Mariner was added to the list.

Today is a great day - a strong, harmful, negative influence is gone (Mariner), and we have added someone with strong character who will add to a positive winning culture for this team. You can dream of a single coach (or player) signing somehow miraculously turning this team around, but it ain't gonna happen until you have the right people in there culturally (and the wrong people out).

Face facts - We are the undisputed, worst team in the world. I don't recall ANYBODY disputing this claim - even among supporters on this board. This signing is as good as it gets (for now).

Without a doubt, the next challenge is moving Cochrane out. Keeping him as the coffee gopher or the guy who operates the sprinklers at half time may sound OK, but Payne has to move him out, in order to continue to improve the team. Cochrane has fouled the nest badly and will be a negative influence on the culture, by his very presence - he represents the old way of doing things - politics + incompetence. If Payne moves Cochrane out the door quickly, this will signal a real dawn of a new era. Stay tuned!

Perhaps a new poll should be started: "How many games will Cochrane last?" (For those politically correct among us, I would note that I have not suggested a "Deathwatch" thread!

)

**ensco** · 01-09-2013, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Yohan

Kevin Payne has to engage in major PR campaign to temper supporter expectations.

I think in KP's mind, 2013 is a rebuilding season and playoff is not likely. In a lot of supporters mind, 2013 is year TFC makes playoffs, and if there is no tangible improvement from the start, people are going to be restless.

It's hard asking for more patience from TFC supporters after 6 years of shite, but I drank some kool aid. I'm willing to let a proven MLS guy like KP have some time to implement his vision of what TFC should be like.

It doesn't matter who the coach is in 2013. We are worse than an expansion team. Seriously. If we could release all our players and go back through an expansion draft, I would do that in a flash.

Re expectations, Payne said he expects to contend for the playoffs but that making it is unrealistic. I think the "contend" bit was similar to his endorsement of Mariner, ie it's what he had to say.

A lot has to do with whether you renewed or not.

**denime** · 01-09-2013, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by jloome

Nothing guarantees success as a manager, unless your name is Alex Ferguson.

To me, as some others have suggested here, you hire first based on the person's characteristics and second on their resume. I hired guys for years and people in management used to wonder how we could pick these gems out of the middle of nowhere, sometimes with no professional experience. And it's because they shared common character traits combined with some intimate knowledge of the sphere of influence.

He might flame out, but I doubt it. I think a year from now people will be happy we finally have a management team on the same page.

Well said,Highlighted part is what I think is very important in this whole new coach hiring.

**Pendrith** · 01-09-2013, 07:16 AM

On the bright side, Nelsen can recruit and scout players for TFC while he is still playing for QPR and New Zealand. Oceania soccer market for players haven't been scouted by MLS teams. We could start a trend of Ocenia players coming to MLS.

**tfcleeds** · 01-09-2013, 08:35 AM

Just another thought here too. Too often with our hirings in the past, people came in with preconceived notions about what would work and what wouldn't. And there are some (think Winter especially) who perhaps underestimated this league, and who perhaps thought that by implementing their tactics from abroad they could 'rip this league a new one'. At least with Nelsen - he's a blank slate. He won't have any previous experience that acts as a hindrance when it comes to devising a playing style and tactics that work for this club, in this league. It won't be an issue of failing to adapt, he can see how things work here, and go with the flow. And maybe for once, that's a good thing.

**Oldtimer** · 01-09-2013, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by tiberius

I'm with you Alonso! I am baffled by the negativity today. Almost to a person, the posters to this board have agreed for a long time that the huge underlying problem has been culture and character. A culture built by Anselmi - a corrupt, incompetent, bureaucratic, political culture that spawned a six year, groundhog day circus. Most agreed - for things to turn around, the major contributors/architects to the culture had to go - Anselmi, Cochrane, Bierne. For many, after a time, Mariner was added to the list.

Today is a great day - a strong, harmful, negative influence is gone (Mariner), and we have added someone with strong character who will add to a positive winning culture for this team. You can dream of a single coach (or player) signing somehow miraculously turning this team around, but it ain't gonna happen until you have the right people in there culturally (and the wrong people out).

Face facts - We are the undisputed, worst team in the world. I don't recall ANYBODY disputing this claim - even among supporters on this board. This signing is as good as it gets (for now).

I think we are one of the worst teams in the world, but we are improving quickly. The culture is changing, and I agree with you that the culture is the key issue. MoJo was never on the same page as his coaches, Anselmi wasn't on the same page as anyone else, the locker room was divided...we have had a disfunctional culture since day 1... that is the actual root of our problems. We had a terrible perception of being both incompetent and unethical... despite all of the huge financial resources of ML$E most people wanted to steer a path around TFC.

Originally Posted by Initial B

I had hoped that Payne would be honest, but I feel he is lying just as much as Anselmi did and that is what is making me angry. MLSE never trusts its fanbase with the truth.

How's my tin-foil hat holding up?

I don't think Payne is lying.... I think your theory is partly right, though. I agree that what happened isn't how things were planned. I think that Mariner refused to go along with Payne's plan so Payne fired him. Cue hasty press conference, etc.

People are naturally very cynical, but Payne really represents a radical change of management, as drastic as RSL experienced when Kreis was hired and the old GM and coach let go. RSL had been the laughing-stock of the league, with a fanbase every bit as cynical as ours. I hope that Payne will succeed, but he's taking the type of approach that I believe is necessary to remake the culture of TFC into a properly functioning organization.

Don't worry about Nelsen's lack of experience, he's not being hired for his technical and squad-selection genius, he's being hired to work with Payne. Payne will make all of the decisions when it comes to building the roster, the new assistant will run all of the training, Nelsen will be there to encourage the lads to play their best, something that we're reading that he's very good at.

**ManUtd4ever** · 01-09-2013, 09:04 AM

The major difference with the new regime compared to previous management teams is that Payne, Nelsen, and O'Leary have extensive familiarity with one another. As others have mentioned, the mere fact that they will all be on the same page moving forward is a refreshing change from the past. This group will work in unison in all key levels of management, which will hopefully reflect the product on the pitch, and create an environment that is conducive to sustainable success.

Furthermore, it seems apparent that Nelsen and O'Leary will be charged with implementing Payne's vision at field level. Payne is still the primary individual responsible for assembling a roster that can execute his vision effectively. If Payne can assemble the talent necessary to compete, it will make the transition period for the new coaching staff that much easier. With the #1 and #3 picks coming up in the draft and cap space available, Payne still has a few moves up his sleeve prior to opening day.

**Canary10** · 01-09-2013, 09:33 AM

If you take the pro-Mariner people at the word that it wasn't Mariner so much as stability, then they should be very happy this morning. It unfolded badly yesterday, but given the longstanding relationship between Ryan Nelsen and Kevin Payne, Nelsen will bring stability. This is the first time I actually somewhat believe that we have a coach who will be here for 3 years.

**ag futbol** · 01-09-2013, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by tfcleeds

Just another thought here too. Too often with our hirings in the past, people came in with preconceived notions about what would work and what wouldn't. And there are some (think Winter especially) who perhaps underestimated this league, and who perhaps thought that by implementing their tactics from abroad they could 'rip this league a new one'. At least with Nelsen - he's a blank slate. He won't have any previous experience that acts as a hindrance when it comes to devising a playing style and tactics that work for this club, in this league. It won't be an issue of failing to adapt, he can see how things work here, and go with the flow. And maybe for once, that's a good thing.

The thing you have to like about Nelsen based on his profile is that he's had enough exposure to MLS to understand how things work here, yet at the same time he's moved on to other parts of the world where the game is more sophisticated.

So the hope would be that this guy can adapt / innovate here based on what he's learned. He's not going to be stuck in the past like a MLS 1.0 coach or trying to reinvent the wheel like a european coach with no understanding of the league. He can actually propose new ways to do things and have good judgement as to whether they will work or not because he understands the system and the environment he's trying to place it in.

**reggie** · 01-09-2013, 11:04 AM

he was on the fan this morning....and from the sounds of it,i wouldnt be surprized that he will here sooner then later.

**backbeat** · 01-09-2013, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by reggie

he was on the fan this morning....and from the sounds of it,i wouldnt be surprized that he will here sooner then later.

is there a link?

**ensco** · 01-09-2013, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by ag futbol

The thing you have to like about Nelsen based on his profile is that he's had enough exposure to MLS to understand how things work here, yet at the same time he's moved on to other parts of the world where the game is more sophisticated.

So the hope would be that this guy can adapt / innovate here based on what he's learned. He's not going to be stuck in the past like a MLS 1.0 coach or trying to reinvent the wheel like a european coach with no understanding of the league. He can actually propose new ways to do things and have good judgement as to whether they will work or not because he understands the system and the environment he's trying to place it in.

This is it. That, and the fact that he gets the armband at every team he joins within 6 months.

Hope it works. It makes one hell of a lot more sense than WinterMariner ever did.

**yellowfellow** · 01-09-2013, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by reggie

he was on the fan this morning....and from the sounds of it,i wouldnt be surprized that he will here sooner then later.

I heard it too. He said it's PR issue for QPR and just said read between the lines.

**reggie** · 01-09-2013, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Yohan

Reaction from New Zealand national team POV
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/8157300/

Nelsen and O'Leary in some sort of sports psychology partnership
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/footbal...r-young-talent

good find....i dont think our ex 70s/80s coach would be using any sports psychology...

**Yohan** · 01-09-2013, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by backbeat

is there a link?

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_deman...-Interview.mp3

**andyc** · 01-09-2013, 11:32 AM

It looks like Harry has a plan to replace Nelsen sooner rather than later...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...Tottenham.html

**ensco** · 01-09-2013, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by andyc

It looks like Harry has a plan to replace Nelsen sooner rather than later...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...Tottenham.html

It would be amusing if it were Mellberg coming in to QPR.

**Lucky Strike** · 01-09-2013, 11:38 AM

I found a few "fresh" articles about Ryan Nelsen (at least, I haven't seen them discussed here and in the local media). Specifically, here are in my view, the more interesting bits:

After Payne dangled the offer, Nelsen called him back a couple of days later and "proceeded to run down the entire roster of Toronto FC, what everybody made, all of the stats, how many games they had won, how many goals they had surrendered. "He had watched games on video and was telling me how many times one pass beat the back four. That's the kind of guy he is." Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/8160431/

But Nelsen, who has signed a three-year contract with his Canadian club, would not speculate on that last night when he spoke to The Press from Toronto. Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/8160413/

**Canary10** · 01-09-2013, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by ag futbol

The thing you have to like about Nelsen based on his profile is that he's had enough exposure to MLS to understand how things work here, yet at the same time he's moved on to other parts of the world where the game is more sophisticated.

So the hope would be that this guy can adapt / innovate here based on what he's learned. He's not going to be stuck in the past like a MLS 1.0 coach or trying to reinvent the wheel like a european coach with no understanding of the league. He can actually propose new ways to do things and have good judgement as to whether they will work or not because he understands the system and the environment he's trying to place it in.

Well said.

**Oldtimer** · 01-09-2013, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky Strike

Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/8160431/

That is a very reassuring article. He may not have his formal certificates, but basically he is self-taught to a higher level than most coaches:

Rookie manager Ryan Nelsen doesn't believe his lack of coaching qualifications will prevent him hitting the ground running in his new job in a Major League Soccer dugout.

The All Whites captain's appointment as head coach at Toronto FC drew mixed reactions on fan websites yesterday.
But Toronto general manager/president Kevin Payne said he first realised Nelsen was different when he saw him with an advanced book on football tactics as a 23-year-old at their former club DC United.

"You just don't see players reading stuff like that," Payne said.

"You rarely see coaches reading stuff like that, unfortunately. Ryan is a guy who has made a study of leadership. He pays attention to what great leaders do, and that is very unusual, too.

**QBall** · 01-09-2013, 03:17 PM

Aw hell we're a last place team, it's not like Nelsen can make things worse. Sure it's kind of a ridiculous situation to present to the fans that the new coach is currently playing for another team in another league, but it's so Toronto FC! Never a dull moment! The only thing I worry about is will the new coach have any real time to learn study what the MLS game is all about. I believe Aaron Winter thought he could adopt a European system and find success in Toronto only to realize the exact opposite. The coaching change is something that really should have been done back in October, however I remain optimistic about Nelsen.

**tfcmanu** · 01-09-2013, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by andyc

It looks like Harry has a plan to replace Nelsen sooner rather than later...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...Tottenham.html

I think this will happen, Nelsen will be with the Reds soon.

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2013/01...k-ryan-nelsen/

**PopePouri** · 01-09-2013, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by QBall

The only thing I worry about is will the new coach have any real time to learn study what the MLS game is all about.

I'm sure he has an understanding. He played it for 4 years.

Thread: SBI - Nelsen to be named new Head Coach of TFC

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