SBI - Nelsen to be named new Head Coach of TFC

[Yohan]

So far the best part of Nelsen hiring is that it completely stole the thunder from Montreal unveiling their manager. Suck it Saputo

[ag futbol]

They might have stopped the stuff happening that Philadelphia Union revealed after they fired one of Payne's previous no-qualification hires:

Ex-MLS Coach Accused Of Hazing And Endangering Players Is Suing For Wrongful Termination

... demonstrating gross negligence, including putting the health and safety of Team players at risk by requiring injured players to participate in strenuous training activities, not allowing players to have water during such activities despite temperatures in excess of 80 degrees, ignoring the advice of the head athletic trainer regarding which players are healthy enough to play in games and participate in training sessions and creating an atmosphere where medical issues should be hid from medical staff and not treated ...

That all sounds like really basic stuff that you should have learned not to do before being made a big league head coach. Fortunately Nelsen seems to be a far more sensible person than Nowak, so perhaps a non-issue really. But there's reasons one has minimum qualifications, and it's not to ignore them at the first opportunity. I'm concerned about Payne's poor track-record on this issue previously.

Not sure if this is an attempt at trolling but I’m going in head-first after the bait.

First, if you’re going to describe Kevin Payne’s hiring practices as anything at least look at the whole track record rather than reaching for specious data points. Even the guy you’re going after for being under qualified was pretty successful during his time at DC. Start to finish at worst the track record is average, more realistically it’s admirable.

Second, in high performance cultures it is common to fire people. Unfortunately, it’s also not unheard of that employers trump up some pretty nasty reasons not to pay severance. The players didn’t get water when it was hot out? He asked some people to play through pain? He got after some people in training? Does this in any way sound like things that happen often in sports that have now been trumped up and exaggerated? I’ll bet you a small mint it settles out of court and they drop the counter suit. Meaning: they know they fired him because the team was losing / to save money and not because he was a crazy psychopath who was putting people in danger. Hope you never get involved in one of these, they are not fun. The stuff they are trying to pin on Nowak is light compared to other stories I’ve heard. All in the name of egos and saving a few bucks.

So please, don't make these arguments about this guy putting people in danger in because he didn't have a license. You were able to point out those *unproven* things in the lawsuit were bad, did you need a coaching license to do that?

[ensco]

So far the best part of Nelsen hiring is that it completely stole the thunder from Montreal unveiling their manager. Suck it Saputo

It's too bad. We would have had more fun with them hiring "The Swiss Volcano" from the second division, who has had 6 jobs, and not once lasted a year.

[Richard]

Im not sure if we should be worried but Nelsen is under contract until june. Would QPR let him retire then coach? Its not uncommon for there to be compensation for manager/coach moving to another club. QPR have every right to not let him move as a player untill June. If he retires, the quick hire by TFC could open up some leagal problems, QPR may demand compensation. He is playing very well in the EPL at the moment, thats something which cant be underestimated even at his age.

Sources:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...c-8442598.html

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=413067

[AdamAM]

Is anyone else really excited to see this guys influence on Henry and Gale? A CB of his pedigree has gotta have some knowledge to share, especially considering that they both have amazing potential and could use a true professionals help

[reggie]

i dont

Is anyone else really excited to see this guys influence on Henry and Gale? A CB of his pedigree has gotta have some knowledge to share, especially considering that they both have amazing potential and could use a true professionals help

i really dont like that idea...he doesnt have a coaching badge yet...

[bgnewf]

The most strident critics of this team wanted three things when last season ended:

1) A cut in prices of season seats to reward fans for loyalty and to at least partially apologize for shite product on the field - Check
2) A president who knew soccer and was not named Ton An$elmi - Check
3) A new coach - Check.... The only thing not fully completed is when Nelsen will start!

So 2.75 out of three.... not too bad if you ask me.

Is it ideal that Nelsen is heading back to London and not to his new office to start working? And for that matter that the cunt of cunts 'Arry fucking Redknapp (CUNT!!!) will partially have a say in the immediate future of our club? Of course not. But I think we soon forget that most if not all of what we all probably wanted to take place during this off season has or is about to take place.

A lot of the dead wood has been chopped. Some reinforcements have arrived and more are to follow. Nelsen by all accounts is a solid citizen who could very well turn into a spectacular coach... or not... who knows, but for many he is definitely one thing... he is not Paul Mariner.

The timing of this decision can be questioned and the relative lack of experience of the new staff is definitely something that can be questioned as well, as I am sure it will.

But this bleating about the "shit show" that is TFC I think is a bit overblown, at least in this case. I truly feel that Kevin Payne would not choose to open himself up to the criticism he is getting from many quarters today about the hiring of Nelsen and the ongoing QPR thing if he truly did not feel that he was the right guy for the job. I don't think he has gone insane for that matter or that the water pipes at BMO Field have lead in them or anything leading him to get nuttier by the day! I think he was fully prepared to take it on the chin today (as he certainly did) because this is the guy he wants.

But to get Nelsen we end up have to play into some of the stereotypes our team has acquired for itself during those dark dark "An$elmi years"

[Mr. Bigby]

Okay, so the guy doesn't have his coaching certificates. On the other hand, K.P. seems to indicate that he has qualities and knowledge that a lot of 'certified' coaches wish they had!
See http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...udy-leadership

On the whole, I'm willing to give K.P - with his past track record of success - the benefit of the doubt. (If we're voting on the flavour of Kool-Aid, by the way, I'm for Cherry...)

[nfitz]

First, if you’re going to describe Kevin Payne’s hiring practices as anything at least look at the whole track record rather than reaching for specious data points.

I believe I tackled that in another thread. I was merely raising the possibility that perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to ignore the lack of basic qualifications, given a previous example of this by the same person.

That said, if Nelson can get out of QPR sooner than later, and if he shows as much promise as those like Redknapp and Payne have shown in him, perhaps we have a chance of fielding a competitive MLS team, for the first time, in a year or so. However, the way this is going so far, does give me concern. Perhaps not as much concern as the start of the season under Winter and the end under Mariner, but it does raise a warning sign.

I'm also concerned that with such a green rookie, that people will be quick to start complaining only 10-15 games into the season, if it's another poor start, when really this is something we need to wait out until mid-2014 or early 2015 to watch. Though given that the ship has already sailed, I'm going to have to jump on board at some point and drink the kool aid. I find it ironic though that I of all people am the one hesitating to drink the kool aid yet again ...

[ensco]

I believe I tackled that in another thread. I was merely raising the possibility that perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to ignore the lack of basic qualifications, given a previous example of this by the same person.

That said, if Nelson can get out of QPR sooner than later, and if he shows as much promise as those like Redknapp and Payne have shown in him, perhaps we have a chance of fielding a competitive MLS team, for the first time, in a year or so. However, the way this is going so far, does give me concern. Perhaps not as much concern as the start of the season under Winter and the end under Mariner, but it does raise a warning sign.

I'm also concerned that with such a green rookie, that people will be quick to start complaining only 10-15 games into the season, if it's another poor start, when really this is something we need to wait out until mid-2014 or early 2015 to watch. Though given that the ship has already sailed, I'm going to have to jump on board at some point and drink the kool aid. I find it ironic though that I of all people am the one hesitating to drink the kool aid yet again ...

This is beyond absurd. Nowak's qualification for the Philly job was that he had coached an MLS champion! If Philly's allegations are true, and I can't find one player (or anybody at all) supporting the allegations, that story only proves that qualifications are worthless! It's just a cautionary tale about assuming anything about credentials and qualifications (as well as the virulence of severance lawsuits) and supports exactly the opposite of the point you think you are making!

Whatever point you think you are trying to make with the Nowak thing, it just feels to me like a low blow at both Nowak and Payne.

[Yagbod]

^ Watch out!!! If you don't drink the kool aid people only read one sentence out of five that you write.

Edit: this was for nfitz post prior to ensco's.

[ensco]

And why does anyone think supporters will be less reasonable towards someone with less experience? What is that based on? I can pretty much guarantee you that if TFC are 500 in June, people will be over the moon, and if they're 3-8, a significant faction will want Nelsen (and maybe Payne) fired.

[ag futbol]

I'm also concerned that with such a green rookie, that people will be quick to start complaining only 10-15 games into the season, if it's another poor start, when really this is something we need to wait out until mid-2014 or early 2015 to watch

Well personally I was already resigned to the poor start, regardless of who is in charge. I think everyone will reluctantly come to that conclusion given the characteristics of our roster. Peralta signing notwithstanding, we need to replace pretty much all of our midfield and actually hit the target doing it. Between that and hoping Hassli stays healthy early / Koevermans comes back late.. I think it's inevitable that it will be a long year.

[FluSH]

Good post by BGnewf there...

[ouderwien]

New crazy idea: Let Frings finish his contract out as a player/coach until Nelsen is back.

[CoachGT]

Just throwing my two cents in.

I'm okay with bringing in Nelsen. Not a bad move. And I presume something happened to force this to a head much quicker than TFC anticipated. But they still had a little time to get things straight before meeting the press, so the soap opera that is TFC continues, at least in that regard.

My issue is not with that, not necessarily with having a reverse coaching situation (normally the interim comes after a move is made, not as a placeholder until the new guy arrives). I can live with that if he's the right guy. And I have no issue about his credentials - they will come, and as long as there are a few half decent guys around him, he might turn out okay. Hell, experience in this league (and others) hasn't necessarily been the promised land it has been made out to be. And I'm okay that he's not Canadian - you have to deal with who you trust within your network, so I'll grant that to Payne as well.

But the one thing that makes me cringe is hearing the fans be told to "be patient". I'm here to support this team. Through thick and thin, better or worse, whatever - but saying "be patient" means more pain (no pun intended here) before we ever see anything better. Every year we are told by the latest powers that be to be patient as though we've never heard it before. Patience is one thing that the die hards around here have shown. In a city where patience with sports teams has become the norm.

Please don't patronize me by telling me to be patient. Just be accountable and live up to the promise you are undertaking. It may not come today, or tomorrow, but show positive movement. TFC is not there yet, despite the changes we've sen. We need a period of stability and consistent, competitive results. Not winning every game, but at least competing and winning a fair share of them. And stop the revolving door of players (which isn't likely to stop anytime soon).

I still come back to "MAKE US PROUD AGAIN".

[OgtheDim]

The nature of being a football supporter is to have times of glory, together with things that will make you tear your hair out.

Mariner is gone, and with him his "these bunch of idiots" 80's style attitude.

That is a good thing.


All in all, I think TFC took a step forward today.

Is it a perfect situation?

No, of course not.

But we are in a far better place then we were in October.


And, today, that's enough.

[FluSH]

^^^
Well said

[Toronto_Bhoy]

But this bleating about the "shit show" that is TFC I think is a bit overblown, at least in this case.

Here's why it looks like a "shit show".

Today's debacle was the last thing I expected from Kevin Payne. That's what makes it all the more bizarre. The whole thing "appears" cobbled together, like everything else TFC does.

TFC supporters are looking for stability and they get, "Oh, by the way, your new head coach might not be around for your opening game because he's playing for another team in another league." Really, KP? Your kidding right?

Am I expecting too much from these clowns? What do you think the previous SEVEN coaches are thinking tonight? I bet their having a right good laugh.

Your correct about MLSE "ticking all the boxes" but it's too late for me. They burned me. I will watch from a distance before I fork over another couple of grand. I blindly believed six years ago this was the real article and they showed me they weren't. They need to win my trust and confidence back. Today didn't help, I didn't see the quality. I saw what I've come to expect from this organization.

I like Ryan Nelsen. He's a decent footballer, comes with good references and Payne knows him personally…that's all great but of course none of these guarantee success as a manager. He has no track record, no experience, it's all new to him. We have a rookie, he will be "cutting his teeth" at our expense. Is this really what this franchise needs?

After six seasons of this "shit show", regression not progression, eight coaches, does any of today make sense?

I hope it works but too be honest I expected more. I was underwhelmed today.

[tfcleeds]

Just had an opportunity to watch the press conference for the first time. In regards to the question Payne is asked "how quickly did this come about", and he answers, "oh, we've been talking about it off and on for 10 years or so"....really, Kevin? Really? That's weak. I still have faith in the hiring, but come on.

[jloome]

…that's all great but of course none of these guarantee success as a manager.

Nothing guarantees success as a manager, unless your name is Alex Ferguson.

To me, as some others have suggested here, you hire first based on the person's characteristics and second on their resume. I hired guys for years and people in management used to wonder how we could pick these gems out of the middle of nowhere, sometimes with no professional experience. And it's because they shared common character traits combined with some intimate knowledge of the sphere of influence.

He might flame out, but I doubt it. I think a year from now people will be happy we finally have a management team on the same page.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This day could be remembered as the day the franchise died. And I will remember where I was when it happened.

Or literally hundreds of other moments chicken littles have said it.

If MLSE is your problem there is other live soccer around right at that Lamport you're talking about.

[Sullivan]

Care to share those good reasons?

Performance of teams & Recruiting.
Can't expect to stay with an Ivy program if your team can't compete. His teams rarely challenged,
pretty sure they never won conference or gained NCAA berth. Although Ivy's don't offer athletic
scholy's, they do offer financial aid and academic awards - Dartmouth at one time was a good
destination which lost it's lustre - although I wouldn't blame O'Leary for that, he's no Bobby Clark
and that's who he replaced.

He resigned from GMU, but the writing was on the wall, 3 losing seasons but more so the failure
to sign the quality in-state players, often losing out to other local programs (UVa, Maryland, ODU,
W&M, G'town, Va.Tech, JMU).

...I've never heard of Bowdoin College...

Better known for women's ice hockey.

... you'd think Payne's Rolodex would be slightly more extensive than
to grab some guy who's been toiling away in obscurity the last few years. ...

O'Leary is a Payne hire, they're football acquaintances from when both lived within the 495 beltway.
GMU was also an occasional training centre for DCU in the 90's.

I'm also led to beleive that they both resided in Reston, Va., that's info provided to me by a colleague
who is familiar with GMU, DCU and local youth football.

I get that Payne want's his own people, but O'Leary's involvement leaves me very underwhelmed.

That said, happy to see the back of Mariner.

[Red CB Toronto]

He was able to build a good program at Bowdoin Sullivan, could you give any insight into the differences a coach would face at a at the Ivy League/Division 1 vs. D3, is success not success? I am just curious.

[burlington Red]

Nothing guarantees success as a manager, unless your name is Alex Ferguson.

To me, as some others have suggested here, you hire first based on the person's characteristics and second on their resume. I hired guys for years and people in management used to wonder how we could pick these gems out of the middle of nowhere, sometimes with no professional experience. And it's because they shared common character traits combined with some intimate knowledge of the sphere of influence.

He might flame out, but I doubt it. I think a year from now people will be happy we finally have a management team on the same page.

well said...

Worth noting even Fergie was given time at Utd and also worth noting on the whole lack of managerial experience issue re Nelson, that the most sought after manager in the game at the minute, Pep Guardiola went straight into managing Barca with no prior managerial experience. He coached their 2nd string for a while but that was it. He did have a slightly better pool of players than Nelson will acquire lol but nonetheless he had no top level experience and he did okay. The type of player he was though, meant he was always going to be a good manager. I see similiar traits in Nelson albeit in a much lower level league. He is coming straight from the game so will be up to speed on all modern coaching techniques etc, not some ex pro such as Mariner or Mojo who although top players themselves in their days haven't really moved with the times and their methods and tactics were shown to be outdated.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Ferguson had 10 years coaching experience (and won a European trophy) before going to United. As you say, Pep had a "slightly better pool" of players and worked under Johan Cruyff, the man that brought total football to Spain.

[Flipityflu]

seriously, am i out of order for being so angry about this?

it seems the glee in firing Mariner has clouded the fact we just hired a ‘manager’ with no certificates, no managerial experience, and at least right now, no availability to actually manage the team. this is supposed to get me excited? this is supposed to get me to buy season tickets again? or any tickets for that matter.

haven't you had enough of the blind faith?

[Initial B]

I doubt that the way things have transpired is the way Payne intended to start the season. This is the only logical way I can see why things turned out the way they did:

Payne had been in contact with Nelson ever since coming here and planned to bring him in as an Assistant Coach as soon as his stint with QPR was done. The plan was to have him learn under Mariner for the rest of the season, then take over as Head Coach once Mariner's contract runs out. Mariner (who was thinking more along the lines of an Adrian Heath-type AC) gets wind of this plan (probably from Cochrane) some time late last week and confronts Payne. Payne confirms this plan at which point Mariner says "screw you" and quits on the spot, figuring it is the best way to damage Payne's long-term team building plan. Payne has to do damage control and reaches for his Rolodex of contacts to figure out which coach he could get on very short notice that would be willing to come here and work with Nelson. That man is O'Grady, thus the fast-tracking of his pro coaching license. Everything just comes together on Monday and thus we have Tuesday's performance, where Payne gives uncomfortable answers as to why he let Mariner go.

I had hoped that Payne would be honest, but I feel he is lying just as much as Anselmi did and that is what is making me angry. MLSE never trusts its fanbase with the truth.

How's my tin-foil hat holding up?

[Alonso]

I have no idea whether Nelsen will work out, but I think people really don't understand where managing TFC ranks in world football.

You want a guy to start tomorrow? You can have that by, say, bringing in someone who was just fired in the Swiss second division.

I am glad Nelsen is the type of guy who is honouring his contractual obligation to his team, and his moral obligation to QPR supporters.

If this is who Payne wants, fine, the cost is he starts late, we'll all remember that if Nelsen fails.

Nelsen is by any standard a reasonable candidate for coach of TFC, given that Payne is fully responsible for cap management, college and pro scouting.

I support Payne's judgment on this.

This is a huge point right here.

The guy leaving will back stab, leak information, create false press releases, bad mouth previous and current players and managers.

The new guy takes his responsibilities seriously enough to see them through on good terms.

I feel Payne and Nelsen have the same type of character which we have only seen glimpses of around here through guys like Dichio, Robinson, and Carver to name a few.

I am glad that these are the types of men running this club from the top down as this alone is a vast improvement from where we have been over the last 6 years.

[Sullivan]

.. any insight into the differences a coach would face at a at the Ivy League/Division 1 vs. D3

Money.

More money available to fund scholy's; More money available to recruit; More money available to fund quality non-conference games.
Div 1 scholarship count is 9.9 scholarships per team - typically split amongst the roster - 25+players.
Div 2 scholarship count is 9 scholarships per team - typically split amongst the roster - 25+players.
Div 3 offer no scholarships.

What's important to note is that although a program is allowed 9.9 or 9 scholarships, it's up to the school to decide how many scholy's they will fund. It varies.


Quality of player
Elite Div 1 programs attract the studs - provincial/state all star players, national team players.
Lesser D1 (like my son's program) attracts your OYSL/SuperY type players - his school funds 6.5 of the 9.9 scholarships.
D2's have less money so fewer scholarships are offered, they get the scraps.
D3's no athletic scholarships but offer financial aid, smaller schools, a lot of privates with some money (Rollins in Fla) do very well.
(Often hear this is where the rich families buy a scholarship for junior)
My other son is at a small D3 - just academic money for smart kids that can play.

Ivy's, no athletic scholarships but offer financial aid - don't be fooled, where there's a will there is a way. They get quality athletes.

... is success not success? ...

It is, and I agree.
Level of play is relative - good programs do well.
FWIW, I've yet to see an elite D3 that would match up favourably with, say top 35 D1 programs. There is a difference.
... however, on any given day, any given result could happen.....