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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I know what you are saying but I am sick of the pre packaged pablum we are fed every day of our lives, and the overwhelming importance of "PR" as though it matters. It's a reminder to me of what George Carlin said: "Think of how stupid the average person is. Now think about the fact that half of the people are stupider than that".

    Not one of these reporters (some percentage of whom are probably consumed by jealousy because they want the job) took the time to point of the obvious - which is, the announcement was rushed, and made prematurely, for whatever reason. At least in part because Nelsen had to do a transatlantic round-trip, and it had to be Monday because he currently plays in the Premier League. Which meant:

    - Redknapp had no ability to work his replacement yet, so they couldn't say anything about that with the degree of certainty they wanted

    - Nelsen hadn't spoken to NZ, and maybe the greatest NZ footballer in history doesn't think it's appropriate to signal his retirement via another squad's press conference 8,000 miles away.

    Payne handled it different than Anselmi would have, because he doesn't care. Wow. I love it. Leaf fans got their first look at how Anselmi does it yesterday, endlessly bobbing and weaving. I'll take Payne, thanks.

    Nelsen wasn't given the respect he deserved at that press conference. de Vos saying "it's the most bizarre hiring in MLS history" ... what a low blow. As if Kreis and Olson don't exist. Just on de Vos' watch, Chris Cummins, coming in via the Reading Academy, was a stranger hire than Nelsen is. Some of this maybe is because player coaches, and battlefield promotions of player to coach, are rare in NA sports, but more common in football. de Vos would know that.

    Riding this guy because he may/will start late, without commenting on the fact that Payne is responsible for player acquisition, the draft, and for signings, is also unfair. Nelsen wasn't hired in the Aron Winter role. But everybody in the media acted as though he was.

    This whole thing says more about us than it does about the hire, and reflects incredibly badly on Toronto. I know we are bruised by the past here, but the outside world doesn't know that.

    I'm embarassed by how our fans and our media treated Nelsen, and by the coverage our reaction got internationally. I hope Nelsen knows that at least a few people see that.
    The PR does matter, and this was a perfect example. Instead of talking about the merits or lack thereof of Nelsen as a head coach, the story has been the "most bizarre coaching hiring ever in MLS." The fact is, they had no straight answer for anything. They didn't come out off the top and say that Nelsen is contractually obligated to QPR and would join the team when done. Instead it slowly came out as Payne was talking that he won't be available for a while. All that did was make for confusion. I would hope that they would have figured out before the press conference that someone would want to know something like, you know, when Nelsen will actually be there to start coaching. They never had a good answer to that most simple question the whole time. It was extremely bad communication and really shot their credibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    The PR does matter, and this was a perfect example. Instead of talking about the merits or lack thereof of Nelsen as a head coach, the story has been the "most bizarre coaching hiring ever in MLS." The fact is, they had no straight answer for anything. They didn't come out off the top and say that Nelsen is contractually obligated to QPR and would join the team when done. Instead it slowly came out as Payne was talking that he won't be available for a while. All that did was make for confusion. I would hope that they would have figured out before the press conference that someone would want to know something like, you know, when Nelsen will actually be there to start coaching. They never had a good answer to that most simple question the whole time. It was extremely bad communication and really shot their credibility.
    It was a bad press conference. Sure. But that's all it was.

    The idea that the conclusion is that Nelsen isn't a legitimate coaching choice, that it's idiotic to select a coach who may not be available for a couple of months, or that TFC found someone who fell off the turnip truck, is still incredibly stupid.

    Not saying that you have to think Nelsen is a good choice btw. But he is 100% on the spectrum of reasonable choices. That is not what the stories, or most of the initial posts here, said at all.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    It was a bad press conference. Sure. But that's all it was.

    The idea that the conclusion is that Nelsen isn't a legitimate coaching choice, that it's idiotic to select a coach who may not be available for a couple of months, or that TFC found someone who fell off the turnip truck, is still incredibly stupid.

    Not saying that you have to think Nelsen is a good choice btw. But he is 100% on the spectrum of reasonable choices. That is not what the stories, or most of the initial posts here, said at all.
    Totally agree on that. For what it's worth, I have a feeling he will work out well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Totally agree on that. For what it's worth, I have a feeling he will work out well.
    Yeah, it certainly has potential to work out well. Is this the first time TFC has hired a coach that wasn't unemployed at the time. This seems like a guy that other teams might have actually wanted to hire.

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    I'm just going to put this right here...

    www.rnwines.com

  6. #306
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    ^ Also, unlike our last guy, knows a bit about modern football tactics and training playing in the world's top league, and, unlike the guy before that, can play pragmatic football.

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    Need a defender-manager-entrepreneur? Get Ryan Nelsen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC View Post
    I'm just going to put this right here...

    www.rnwines.com
    he seems to be a well rounded man...that should keep all the winers(yes i know you dont spell it that way)on this site happy

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    Seems to me that some people just really, really want to believe in this guy contrary to a great deal of evidence. Perhaps it is the six years of failure and all the negativity it has brought just boiling up into this irresistable need to be positive no matter the evidence or circumstance. I don't know. All I know is I cannot understand the optimism about this choice at all and it seems very forced to me.

    I'll be first in line to support him and cheer on our team this year, but I do not understand this choice. Perhaps if it wasn't one of the worst PR presentations in history I would. But I don't.

    The points in his favour appear to be:

    - we heard he was a good leader
    - he plays at the highest level
    - he used to play in the MLS (7+ years ago)
    - he watched some great coaches do their jobs
    - he won't break his contract with QPR, ergo he is of great character and full of honour.
    - he has never damaged his coaching ability by getting his badges/licenses etc. (still wowing about this one)

    Have I missed any other points in his favour? Because that list still seems a little weak to me. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I am saying it does not look good on paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Totally agree on that. For what it's worth, I have a feeling he will work out well.

    same here Michael.

    I get what you are saying about the presser. should have been done better. that being said it was nice to have a TFC press conference without TA or the others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagbod View Post
    Seems to me that some people just really, really want to believe in this guy contrary to a great deal of evidence. Perhaps it is the six years of failure and all the negativity it has brought just boiling up into this irresistable need to be positive no matter the evidence or circumstance. I don't know. All I know is I cannot understand the optimism about this choice at all and it seems very forced to me.

    I'll be first in line to support him and cheer on our team this year, but I do not understand this choice. Perhaps if it wasn't one of the worst PR presentations in history I would. But I don't.

    The points in his favour appear to be:

    - we heard he was a good leader
    - he plays at the highest level
    - he used to play in the MLS (7+ years ago)
    - he watched some great coaches do their jobs
    - he won't break his contract with QPR, ergo he is of great character and full of honour.
    - he has never damaged his coaching ability by getting his badges/licenses etc. (still wowing about this one)

    Have I missed any other points in his favour? Because that list still seems a little weak to me. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I am saying it does not look good on paper.

    I think a lot of the optimism is fueled by Paynes rep., Mariner is out, Anselmi is further away from the team and Cockring's role seems less dangerous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit_TFC View Post
    I'm just going to put this right here...

    www.rnwines.com
    Yikes...minimum shipping charge to the US - $261 usd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagbod View Post

    Have I missed any other points in his favour? Because that list still seems a little weak to me. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I am saying it does not look good on paper.
    The T-dot media really fell down on this one (probably due to shock). The Kiwi press picked up that Nelsen has been obsessive about football strategy (reading books when he was a 22-year old player, etc.) over the years, so he has been studying informally in an unusual way over his career.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    I get it that some people are skeptical. Why wouldn't we be? But at this point, what have we really got to lose? It's not like we were going to get Sigi Schmidt, Bruce Arena, or Dominic Kinnear to come here. People weren't exactly banging down the doors to be the next manager of this club given the revolving door of managers we've had here. At this point, we just have to trust Payne - what else have we got? He's hired two previous coaches who had no prior experience - one of them ended up winning a MLS Cup with DC, and the other has made DC into a playoff team. If it wasn't for that, yeah, I'd be very, very wary of this hiring (and let's be honest, it's not an ideal one). But it's not like any of the other choices we've made have been a panacea either. At least now, we've got a management team that have all known each other for years and are on the same page. That has GOT to count for something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belfast_Boy View Post
    I think a lot of the optimism is fueled by Paynes rep., Mariner is out, Anselmi is further away from the team and Cockring's role seems less dangerous.
    Payne's rep is the main thing. Nobody knows Nelsen, but everyone knows that Payne is one of the best GMs in MLS.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagbod View Post
    Seems to me that some people just really, really want to believe in this guy contrary to a great deal of evidence. Perhaps it is the six years of failure and all the negativity it has brought just boiling up into this irresistable need to be positive no matter the evidence or circumstance. I don't know. All I know is I cannot understand the optimism about this choice at all and it seems very forced to me.

    I'll be first in line to support him and cheer on our team this year, but I do not understand this choice. Perhaps if it wasn't one of the worst PR presentations in history I would. But I don't.

    The points in his favour appear to be:

    - we heard he was a good leader
    - he plays at the highest level
    - he used to play in the MLS (7+ years ago)
    - he watched some great coaches do their jobs
    - he won't break his contract with QPR, ergo he is of great character and full of honour.
    - he has never damaged his coaching ability by getting his badges/licenses etc. (still wowing about this one)

    Have I missed any other points in his favour? Because that list still seems a little weak to me. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I am saying it does not look good on paper.
    The implication of your list is that players don't go straight to manager, but sometimes they do.

    You missed the big one. He has received the armband within 6 months of arriving on every team he has ever played for (only slight exaggeration, but we're talking big teams). That is extraordinary. That is a pretty powerful endorsement of his leadership skills (and maybe his technical skills too, not sure about that one).
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Payne's rep is the main thing. Nobody knows Nelsen, but everyone knows that Payne is one of the best GMs in MLS.
    Yes that, and also the way we have seen other MLS teams turnaround. This is a unique league for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belfast_Boy View Post
    I think a lot of the optimism is fueled by Paynes rep., Mariner is out, Anselmi is further away from the team and Cockring's role seems less dangerous.
    I'm giving Payne the benefit of the doubt. This isn't the same ol' TFC regime making this decision.

    Payne likes young, uncorrupted managers, guys who don't have a solid, no budge, preconceived notion on how things should be run . People that he can mold into a type of manager that he can work with. He saw the Nelsen opportunity and jumped on it.

    We normally see teams bring in a young player and invest time and money into their training because they see star qualities in that player, well this is an investment into a manager that Payne has identified as a future all star manager.

    It's pretty clear and obvious how this team will be run to start off the Payne era. We heard directly from his mouth that he likes to be involved and sticks his nose in wherever he can. So with that being said, I can see it working like this:

    - Payne will work with the coaching staff to instill a system/playing style. It'll be up to the coaches, who seem to have the same mindset as Nelsen, to get the team playing that style of football.
    - In a perfect world by the time Nelsen comes in, the team should have the foundations of that style in their heads, all Nelsen will do from there is to be briefed on teams progress by the coaching staff and will then start to put his stamp on the team.
    - Payne will be responsible, and therefore should be accountable, for bringing in players that fit this style of play/needs of the team. By the time the summer transfer window opens, Nelsen and the coaching staff should know who is working out, who needs to go and what holes need to be filled. Payne - doing what Mariner should've done - would go out and get the players that fit these needs. As we know he likes American players, so be sure that we will see an influx of stars and stripes as oppose to Euro star players during the transfer window.

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    the presser was comedy gold. Once I picked my jaw up off the floor and got over the initial shock, my reaction is that Nelsen has the character attributes to be a good coach. If Arry rates him as one the best Pros he's ever worked with, that's good enough for me.
    I get the sense from Sharman's posts on twitter that the situation will sort itself out and Ryan will be here by February. I admire him for showing loyalty to QPR. It speaks volumes to his character.
    I'd sooner Payne get the guy he wants even if it takes a couple of months than do the usual TFC hire - "does he have a pulse, is he available now?".
    Yes, if this had been an Alselmi hire, I'd have been at gate 4 with a pitchfork, but we demanded a new GM/Pres with the authority to rebuild this house of cards, and boy has he made a massive gamble early doors.

    We demanded a new boss who knows his onions, we got him. Let's give him and Ryan the time they need.

    Anselmi is out of the picture, Mariner is too and ST prices are 2007 level. I can't wait for the new season.
    Time we unified and got behind the boys in red.

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    I may be reading into it, but Yagbod mentioned that it was 7+ years ago that Ryan played in the MLS. To me, there is going to be an understanding of the distance from DC to LA and times zones, something other 'rookie' managers overlooked and didn't understand.

    Lets see how this goes, as others have said, we don't have much to loose by trying this out. He certainly seems like a stand up guy.
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

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  21. #321
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    The thing is, given the new schedule, TFC will probably lose it's first 4 matches.

    Will the press and the fans give Nelson a chance?
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

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    It is not an experienced manager like i had hoped but i am glad to see mariner moved out.

    For that reason alone I am willing to wait and see how this plays out

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    Payne should be dampening expectations between now and the start of the season. Realistically, we need a 30 point turnaround over last year to make the playoffs. No team in MLS had a 30 point turnaround last year. So playoffs are not going to happen. Maybe set sights a 38-40 points or something doable.
    Last edited by Canary10; 01-10-2013 at 12:20 PM.

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    The rollout of Anselmi to Leaf Nation has been the most amusing thing that's happened over the last 2 days. Just thought I'd lift something from one of the Leaf sites about Anselmi. This is from a guy "Leaf Army", with 8000 posts on hfboards .....

    http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1319521&page=4


    Absolutely he's [Anselmi's] a huge problem. Got that just from the press conference yesterday.


    1. He started the conference off by saying "the new ownership has new priorities." When will these clueless morons get it? When you're at a press conference, talking about hockey operations the priority is always the same. WINNING. That's it.


    It should have be the priority last year and it should still be the priority this year. It was a very telling remark that just shows this ownership still has no clue how to separate hockey operations from business.


    2. He goes on to assure us that their priority is winning. Yet then, for all the reasons he gave why Burke is no longer the GM, none of them had anything to do with wins or losses. Sounded more like personal issues and business reasons.


    You can't say your priority is "winning" and then fire a Stanley Cup winning GM because he wasn't the right "fit" for the ownership style. Ridiculous.
    Last edited by ensco; 01-10-2013 at 12:25 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Speaking of Anselmi, and seeing as how he's furthest away from a hands-on position with this club as he's ever been, it kind of made me chuckle seeing the Leafs presser yesterday. The way he constantly ducked away from pointed questions and providing the same milquetoast answers - I was thinking, boy, Leafs fans, there's gonna be a lot more where that came from. Get yourself buckled in, the ride's just begun, haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Payne's rep is the main thing. Nobody knows Nelsen, but everyone knows that Payne is one of the best GMs in MLS.
    Bryan Colangelo is considered one of the best GMs in the NBA.

    Brian Burke is considered one of the best GMs in the NHL.

    Perhaps Payne is a genius and one of the best GMs in MLS.

    But this is MLSE.

    This corporation has nothing but a history of turning the best of intentions into ash. Of raising expectations only to see see them dashed against the rocks of reality. Of draining the spirit of GMs, coaches, players, and fans alike with the soul-sucking curse of Harold Ballard.

    Honest, I *want* to believe that Payne made the right call and that Nelsen is the right man for the job (and, really, who would want to come here if they had a choice). But because TFC belongs to MLSE, I feel this is destined to end badly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I know what you are saying but I am sick of the pre packaged pablum we are fed every day of our lives, and the overwhelming importance of "PR" as though it matters. It's a reminder to me of what George Carlin said: "Think of how stupid the average person is. Now think about the fact that half of the people are stupider than that".
    I hear ya. Much of the PR gimmick makes me think of the un-washed peasant masses in a Monty Python movie who's attention moves haphazardly from one point to the next. It's also disappointing when you realize there are a fair amount of people on this board who I would objectively say are more enlightened than the media covering TFC. But that being said, we all recognize what the game is even if it's a load of crap. I'd still say handling that element properly has merit even if it's not going to determine whether someone is a good coach or not.

    BTW, don't get me started on some of these Canadian commentators and their high-and-mighty routine. If someone really wanted to turn the brights on them, they'd scurry back under the floorboards like typical CSA cockroaches.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 01-10-2013 at 12:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Payne should be dampening expectations between now and the start of the season. Realistically, we need a 30 point turnaround over last year to make the playoffs. No team in MLS had a 30 point turnaround last year. So playoffs are not going to happen. Maybe set sights a 38-40 points or something doable.
    He has.

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    West Brom rejected a bid from QPR for CB Olsson so the good news is QPR are actively looking for defenders to replace Nelsen asap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The rollout of Anselmi to Leaf Nation has been the most amusing thing that's happened over the last 2 days. Just thought I'd lift something from one of the Leaf sites about Anselmi. This is from a guy "Leaf Army", with 8000 posts on hfboards .....

    http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1319521&page=4


    Absolutely he's [Anselmi's] a huge problem. Got that just from the press conference yesterday.


    1. He started the conference off by saying "the new ownership has new priorities." When will these clueless morons get it? When you're at a press conference, talking about hockey operations the priority is always the same. WINNING. That's it.


    It should have be the priority last year and it should still be the priority this year. It was a very telling remark that just shows this ownership still has no clue how to separate hockey operations from business.


    2. He goes on to assure us that their priority is winning. Yet then, for all the reasons he gave why Burke is no longer the GM, none of them had anything to do with wins or losses. Sounded more like personal issues and business reasons.


    You can't say your priority is "winning" and then fire a Stanley Cup winning GM because he wasn't the right "fit" for the ownership style. Ridiculous.
    I love how that thread title was phrased in the form of a question. ie. Could Tom Anslemi be a problem? So naive.

 

 

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