If Payne stands behind Mariner, I wonder if I can stand behind him, but that's just my opinion.
If Payne stands behind Mariner, I wonder if I can stand behind him, but that's just my opinion.
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As it has been mentioned, when the subject of Mariner was brought up in Payne's press conference he didn't exactly give the guy glowing praise for his work with the club so far. Kevin Payne is no idiot and probably has better insight on PM than most of us already. I'm coinfident he'll do what he thinks is best for the club.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Agreed. If he is as sharp as everyone says then it doesn't take a genius to realize the circumstances surrounding Mariner's hiring are off-centre. PM will have a lot to prove if he is going to stay on beyond mid-season.Originally Posted by Cashcleaner
Every manager is hired to be eventually replaced, even the one you like if any. Unless you are Jimmy Davies at Waterloo Dock FC in the Liverpool County Premier League (tier 11), he is there permanently (since club was founded in 1963).
Wiki ninja
LOL^
@T-boy ; don't be so sensitive, man. There's nothing wrong with the thread title. The OP just missed the apparent mood-shift of the board in general.
Timing is everything.
a ha ha heh he hoo.. ha
I don't think Mariner will get turfed before pre season, just because Anselmi backed Mariner up publically. Would Payne make Anselmi look like a fool by firing Mariner now?
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
^But if Anselmi has given Payne carte-blanche, which is basically what he said in the press conference, what does it matter if Payne actually did decide to turf Mariner before the pre-season? I'm sure in that case Anselmi would just come up with one of his "well, it wasn't working, and we needed to go a different direction" soundbites.
Not sure how much Anselmi cares now. With the Payne hire, all the clubs have their presidents. He's no longer a club president, he's the overseer of the presidents.
If that's what Payne wants, then I tihnk Anselmi will be happy to support him. Mariner is tied to Anselmi, him going further distances him from being responsible for the results of the club.
I just figure if Anselmi was on the hunt for a new president and if he was going to give him a carte blanche, he wouldn't back Mariner publically without a good reason. Because I don't think Anselmi likes being looked like a fool to back Mariner, only to let a new president fire Mariner.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Payne would be way too late for that mission. Anselmi crossed that bridge all by himself.
Wow, that's an obscure reference. Tier 11 would be like Dixie Soccer Club over here!
[mod mode] I'm renaming the thread from Deathwatch to "Deathwatch," to help those who don't like the thread name. [/mod mode]
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
As the title originally was, I think it would be a little difficult to justify IF Mariner did happen to die! Especially if it was a mystery death somehow or of unnatural causes! Be careful what you wish for on the internet sometimes!
Would that make us accessories after the fact? I'm lawyering up!
Anselmi should just do the honorable and respectable thing, and say that he made decisions based on what he thought were in the best interests of the club, but due to his limited knowledge of the sport, mistakes were made and Payne is here to ensure that those mistakes aren't made again. I would honestly gain a great deal of respect for the man if he could swallow his pride and say that, and it would also be in the best interest of the club
Listen closely to his interview... he didn't say it so bluntly, but he actually hints that he had made a mistake with AW (although he also says it's one that others have made, as well). He has said in the past that he knows little of the sport. I'd class him as a classic big corporation climber and survivor, not an egomaniac.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
there's only a certian amount of time that any president/CEO/GM can stand in front of the media and go through everything over and over again. I think its at the point now that we just need the NEW GM to get on with the job behind closed doors of making this team/club a winner. I don't need constant interviews about it or apologies, I just want future actions to speak louder than any words about the past.
Paul Mariner deserved respect based upon his long and successful career as a player WHEN HE ARRIVED at our club. He pissed away all of this "goodwill" long ago and doesn't deserve one iota of respect vis-a-vis being the coach of TFC at this point, based on his playing career. He deserves respect now based on what he has done and accomplished in the past two years - nothing more, nothing less. With his looooong winless streak he would be carrying into next season, along with a truckload of past bleeps, foul-ups and blunders, PM has done little to earn any respect as a coach. Fortunately for us, Payne is unlikely to be awed by by PM's playing career...
Get the popcorn out folks, this is going to be an interesting off-season. Payne has several potential manager replacements already on his staff. On top of that, he can attract other managers to join our team - the stigma of Toronto FC is now gone. They also have deep pockets to go after any manager they choose - no salary cap or team finances to get in the way... If Payne already sees Mariner as an inept buffoon, why would he go into next season with short pants, monkey dance?? If Payne is half the man I think he is, he may well give us a well deserved Christmas present under the tree. Payne does the next manager a huge favour by getting him in place as soon as possible. Even putting Rongen or DeKlerk in as a caretaker until he can get the coach he wants will be a huge step forward - at least the team philosophy will be righted again...
If it takes Payne 6 months to see through Mariner, so be it - but I don't think it will take 10 minutes with both of them in the same room together before Payne figures out he has a coaching problem to solve. After he gets that far along in his thinking, why wait?
1. Agreed.
2. Agreed.
3. That's quite the positive spin to put on all the unbelievably idiotic things he's done.
4. Entirely irrelevant for a manager.
Despite the 2nd point being accurate, he showed me nothing that would have me believe he's fit for the job if our structural issues were fixed. Until he proves me otherwise, I'll continue to hold the opinion that he should be fired. I'll certainly support the team with him at the helm, but I can't honestly support Mariner himself until I feel like he is directly contributing to wins - or no longer directly contributing to losses.
I'll back off and give Kevin Payne the type of space and time he needs but I will never support someone who actively sabotaged our club to move up the ladder. That means both mariner and cochrane won't be seeing the banners and hearing the chants for a while but there's no possible scenario that will ever make me feel okay with them being part of this club, including an MLS cup win.
Success as a manager has nothing to do with how good a player he was in his day. I would almost say that certain traits of a successful footballer would make them bad managers.
Here's something else to add to Payne finding his way at TFC.
What do you think DeRo had to say about Mariner when Payne reached out to him?
DeRo didn't play for Mariner that I know of.
But wasn't mariner the one in charge of contracts at the time?
Without getting off this thread and down the into DeRo saga too much, my feeling is it may be time to just move on from that time in our short history. I loved DeRo in a TFC shirt and was not happy with the way things ended. However, with the reset in ticket prices and the hiring of a new president the club is looking for a fresh start. IMO it's better to leave as much of the past in the past and move on from where we are now.
Back on topic - I think Mariner & co know they are on a short leash. Every aspect of the club and its personnel need to be reviewed. Mariner has not won me over or convinced me he is the guy. Now that he has a full start to the season as the head coach we will see how well he does. I want to give Payne time to figure out how to move the club forward. If that means he needs time to evaluate the coaching staff then so be it.
I'm guessing Mariner gets the full season unless something drastically goes wrong like another brutal start to the season.
Both Mariner and Winter walked into the DeRo situation. In fact, DeRo gave his infamous "may hold out" post press conference interview at the time of their arrival.
I'm all for holding Mariner accountable but in this case, this situation was already spiraling to the place of no good for everyone.
Now, Cochrane was here through all of it and was singled out specifically by DeRo for the Celtic-permission fiasco.
It looks like that insight has resulted in a predictable decision... proving that Kevin Payne is no idiot.So thankful that Mariner is gone from coaching.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Yes Paul Mariner is definitely 'old school' (which is not necessarily a bad thing) but if you are comparing Paul Mariner to Sir Bobby Robson, hugely successful Ipswich manager in the 1980's, please give yerself a shake.....
^Wasn't comparing Mariner to Sir Bobby at all! In all fairness, I did say "mid-80s", by which time Robson was already with England national team. But yeah, my general point was, Mariner's tactics and approach to the game definitely belong in that era.
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