Payne leaving D.C. United to take over as Toronto FC president

[jloome]

I can't think of any team anywhere ever, that made two big target men up front work. I think they are damn near identical, personally.

Happy to be discussing this also.

They're not really target men, more what they'd call a complete striker. Koevermans plays the target role in that when we played him at the top of a 433 he held the ball up well, but he's a poacher with good feet; Hassli is actually more dangerous outside of the six-yard box than in, when he has space to create something, and he's definitley not a target forward; his principle role isn't receiving and holding up the ball, and banging in headers from corners.

It could work. I think one problem is that the pairing of a fast forward with a big guy creates space for the big guy. We could play a wide diamond, I suppose, with a small, fast hole player behind them and the other midfielder as a straight-up anchor man in front of the backline; it's not very flexible but if you have the right players it can work.

[Alonso]

It's possible you're misunderstanding what he meant by being "party" to them, considering how the league works. Further down the article:



Entirely possible he simply meant he was aware of impending moves, and if he said the same thing last year despite no management shakeup of any kind, I'd say it's likely.

- Scott

It's entirely possible, but being a "party" to something and being "aware" of something are two different things. Being a party to something means being involved, being aware means knowing of it.

It's entirely possible that Garber misspoke.

But the way he said it, to me, implies that he had his hands in some the 'bold' changes we are going to be seeing.

[Oldtimer]

There's dare I say it a note of optimism in this thread.

Let's face it: based on his record, no one expected Anselmi to get anyone remotely qualified. Seeing someone like Payne gives some cause for hope.

[Shakes McQueen]

But by that token, considering he apparently said pretty much the same thing last year, what was he a "party" to last winter? As far as I remember, we had no actual changes at the management level.

It's possible you're right, but he still could have simply meant he was "party" to them, in the way our single entity league is a "party" to pretty much everything. I don't want to parse his language too finely.

At any rate, whatever. It seems to be a pretty good choice, no matter how it went down. But the proof will be in the power he gets.

- Scott

[Alonso]

But by that token, considering he apparently said pretty much the same thing last year, what was he a "party" to last winter? As far as I remember, we had no actual changes at the management level.

It's possible you're right, but he still could have simply meant he was "party" to them, in the way our single entity league is a "party" to pretty much everything. I don't want to parse his language too finely.

At any rate, whatever. It seems to be a pretty good choice, no matter how it went down. But the proof will be in the power he gets.

- Scott

That's the thing, I don't think Garber said anything similar of the sort last year. The columnist/writer is simply mistaken and certainly didn't provide the quote from last year except to say that Garber believed in MLSE. That is the only similarity between what Garber said between last year and this year.

The part about being a party to the upcoming bold changes is entirely new from Don Garber.

And after Anselmi's track record thus far of getting qualified managers for this club, it would make all the sense in the world that the Don threw him and MLSE a bone on this one.

[Shakes McQueen]

And after Anselmi's track record thus far of getting qualified managers for this club, it would make all the sense in the world that the Don threw him and MLSE a bone on this one.

But remember it was the league who recommended he hire Mo Johnston. He didn't come up with that name on his own.

- Scott

[Oldtimer]

But remember it was the league who recommended he hire Mo Johnston. He didn't come up with that name on his own.

- Scott

Mo was actually quite a good choice for a first year coach.
Given that few US coaches wanted to come to an unproven Canadian market, and that a big part of the job was selling the team, it was a logical fit. How Tom ever thought he'd make a good GM, we'll never know.

[ensco]

Mo was totally different. The league can't really just "deliver" a sitting club president to another club.

Simplest explanation is usually the best. This feels to me like it's just all about the benjamins, Payne is cashing in, and Anselmi is sufficiently scarred by the SSH/renewal battle that he ponied up and pulled the trigger. (I say that last bit because I didn't renew, and my rep called this aft and was all over my wife about the "big news".)

All just speculation of course.

[Yohan]

Mo was actually quite a good choice for a first year coach.
Given that few US coaches wanted to come to an unproven Canadian market, and that a big part of the job was selling the team, it was a logical fit. How Tom ever thought he'd make a good GM, we'll never know.

And Bob Gansler. I wish it was Gansler as coach instead of Mo

[Shakes McQueen]

Mo was totally different. The league can't really just "deliver" a sitting club president to another club.

Simplest explanation is usually the best. This feels to me like it's just all about the benjamins, Payne is cashing in, and Anselmi is sufficiently scarred by the SSH/renewal battle that he ponied up and pulled the trigger. (I say that last bit because I didn't renew, and my rep called this aft and was all over my wife about the "big news".)

All just speculation of course.

I'm with you on this. I'm sure in a bout of panic, Anselmi just offered him the most greenbacks to do the job.

- Scott

[SoccMan]

Maybe Payne can lure his old coach at D.C. United Bruce Arena from LA, Bruce was the D.C. coach for D.C.'s two MLS Cup championships in 96 and 97.

[ag futbol]

Re Koevs, that is sort of true.

Re SJ, disagree. Lenhart can run. He has real wheels. His speed tends to not be noticed, because he is such a pest.

Well that and EVERYBODY playing up front is benefiting from good service. I don't see anybody on our roster right now who is going to get these guys the ball.

[Cashcleaner]

wasn't the problem with MoJo the fact that he meddled?

The problem was that he meddled and often had no fucking clue as to what he was doing. If the net results are positive, I'm okay with an executive putting his hands in the pie once in a while.

i KNOW NOTHING OF THIS GUY BUT NO DOUBTING HIS CREDENTIALS. tHE COMMENTS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE piece are telling. Most fans pissed off he's leaving.
Impressed.

Agreed. And as much as it makes me sound like an asshole, the more angry and frustrated those fans are, the more I feel good about this deal for TFC. I do feel bad for the fans at DC who lost a great club President - and a man who seemed to truly care about the supporters, but my excitement for the future outweighs any other feelings on this.

Just a matter of time for Rongen to become head coach of club. He's itchy to move on from academy for a while now
As for knowledge of Canadian soccer.......not a priority. Experience in this US league (made up of mostly American players and for US national team benefit) is whats needed to put a winner on the field- full stop. This move has the leagues hands all over it to stop the downward spiral of TFC.

I agree with that last part. TFC really set the bar in terms of revenue and interest in it's first two years and the league had to have said something to MLSE about their recent failures. We used to pack 21,000 into BMO Field, but during many games this year I would have been surprised if I saw more than 15,000 in the stands. I don't know what the liklihood is of any league involvement in this whole deal, but it's plausible suggestions were made.

Revert to Season 1 STH prices - Check

Hire a qualified president - Check

Replace Mariner - ?

Oh well, two out of three ain't bad.

I think nothing is off the table right now. Anselmi has already made a few hints about Mariner's position with the club. Obviously, nothing is set in stone right now, but if Mariner was sacked a week from now it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Thank you Belfast Boy for all your work last season.

Hear! Hear! This is the one point Belfast and many others have been repeating over and over again for quite a while now, but he's definitely the guy who deserves the most credit for his dogged efforts. The only downside is that it took so long for us to finally get to this point!

I want to share this Kevin Payne story from a DC United Supporter

***

19 May 2001
Crew Stadium
Cowlumbus, OH

Post Game

Me (Weaving ever so slightly): How the hell do we get back downtown from this place?
Buddy (Weaving even more slightly): Dunno, where are the cabs? The bus? What kind of backwater is this?
Me: Excuse me Mister can we catch a ride back downtown with you (repeat a dozen times)
Mister: No. (repeat a dozen times)
Buddy: Excuse me fellow United supporter can we catch a ride back downtown? (repeat half a dozen times)
Fellow United Supporter: Sorry car full (repeat half a dozen times).
Me (Listing slightly to port now. Parking lot almost empty. MeridianFC very sad.): Hey, isn't that the DCU team bus?
Buddy (listing slightly to starboard): Yes, I believe it is.
Me (approach bus door, knock on bus door): Excuse me kind bus driver, we're two lost and lonely DCU fans who have no way to get downtown, could we just, you know catch a ride to the city limits?
Bus Driver: No way, no how.

Buddy and I walking away, heads down, contemplating the long dark trek back on the side of I-71.

Kevin Payne: Hey, is it just you two?
Me: Er, yes.
Kevin Payne: Get on the bus.

Thank you for 17 years of service and looking out for the fans.

This is how you take care of your paying customers. Actually, fuck that. This is how you be a decent human being.

[Oldtimer]

This is how you take care of your paying customers. Actually, fuck that. This is how you be a decent human being.

That sums it up. That really sums up the problem with the FO culture that Mo established and has carried on to this day. They really didn't care about us, either as paying customers or as human beings. Everything I read about Payne says that culture is about to change. Wouldn't it be nice if Phil could just talk to the FO and immediately get our concerns met? Maybe the days of endless protests are finally over.

[tfcleeds]

Mo was totally different. The league can't really just "deliver" a sitting club president to another club.

Simplest explanation is usually the best. This feels to me like it's just all about the benjamins, Payne is cashing in, and Anselmi is sufficiently scarred by the SSH/renewal battle that he ponied up and pulled the trigger. (I say that last bit because I didn't renew, and my rep called this aft and was all over my wife about the "big news".)

All just speculation of course.

Of course, it's likely cash is a big part of the reason he's being lured here, but I think that after 17 years with DC, he probably is looking for a new challenge as well. At least, I hope that's a big motivation for his coming here. Bringing this club to respectability would be a big feather in his cap.

[Auzzy]

Officially confirmed now, with 1:30pm presser to announce Payne as a new soccer president for TFC. Looks like a very good pickup for TFC, I'm pleasantly surprised! RE the reasons for Payne to come -- there are many changes afoot at DC, Payne likely realized it's a good time to move on. Also there are hints he was better at the soccer side of things than the business side at DC, so with ownership changes there, they likely wanted to shake things up. God knows folks don't need to be worried about the business side of things at MLSE (espeically if on-field results can finally materialize).

[ensco]

So having slept on it ..... as somebody who has absolutely hammered MLSE, I have to say that, assuming that Payne gets Burke/Colangelo type control, (and, I don't care what anyone says, if Cochrane remains an important part of the soccer setup, that will be a sign that Payne doesn't have full control) this is about as good as the news could be. It is a truly professional, sincere effort to address the problem, which is appreciated and refreshing.

But I'm still not renewing. The cupboard is incredibly bare, this is a bad team, this will take time, and I have just not had enough fun at games to know that I want to go to 10 or more games, in all weather.

Bottom line: I will go to some games, but will resume my real financial commitment in response to success, not in anticipation of it.

[Beach_Red]

So having slept on it ..... as somebody who has absolutely hammered MLSE, I have to say that, assuming that Payne gets Burke/Colangelo type control, this is about as good as the news could be.

But I'm still not renewing. The cupboard is incredibly bare, this is a bad team, this will take time, and I have just not had enough fun at games to know that I want to go to 10 or more games, in all weather.

Bottom line: I will resume my financial commitment in response to success, not in anticipation of it.

Yeah, I agree with this. It's what MLSE should have done from the very beginning instead of starting with a guy with no experience they could "train" themselves, their way. So now, years later they realize that didn't work and this is the best news possible right now. But I'm not going to renew yet, either. After years of bad decisions one good one doesn't make up for it.

And we'll have to see if Tom (and his embedded people) can really let someone else run the organization.

[tfcleeds]

Yep, that is key. Hiring of Payne in and of itself doesn't solve anything. Much depends on how much control he actually gets. Of course, part of me is hopeful that he wouldn't have come here without that assurance, and that he'd have told MLSE to shove it if he didn't get full control a la Burke or Colangelo. So fingers are crossed...

[tfcmanu]

TFC will make a formal announcement on Wednesday afternoon at a press conference at BMO Field.
.....so it will be official http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/...c_kevin_payne/

Officially confirmed now, with 1:30pm presser to announce Payne as a new soccer president for TFC. Looks like a very good pickup for TFC, I'm pleasantly surprised! RE the reasons for Payne to come -- there are many changes afoot at DC, Payne likely realized it's a good time to move on. Also there are hints he was better at the soccer side of things than the business side at DC, so with ownership changes there, they likely wanted to shake things up. God knows folks don't need to be worried about the business side of things at MLSE (espeically if on-field results can finally materialize).

[Beach_Red]

Yep, that is key. Hiring of Payne in and of itself doesn't solve anything. Much depends on how much control he actually gets. Of course, part of me is hopeful that he wouldn't have come here without that assurance, and that he'd have told MLSE to shove it if he didn't get full control a la Burke or Colangelo. So fingers are crossed...

No doubt, the hiring looks good. Is this the first time TFC hired someone who wasn't unemployed at the time? That, and his track record, makes it likely that he was able to negotiate for a much better deal than previous hires. It seems likely that the position of president isn't just in name only. So yeah, fingers crossed...

[Ultra & Proud]

and, I don't care what anyone says, if Cochrane remains an important part of the soccer setup, that will be a sign that Payne doesn't have full control

Not true. From what I heard a few times in the past from Anselmi was that Cochrane's primary attribute was basically being a 'capologist'. Every team that plays in a salary capped league usually has one on hand to balance the budget. I will say this though; I think Cochrane is a poor GM and makes poor roster decisions but, since he took over the team we've never had so much room under the cap as we do now. We have a ton of room to make moves and the league hasn't even stated what our magical wooden spoon allocation amount will be or how much the cap threshold will raise. In this capacity a used car salesman type like Cochrane can be valuable.

[brad]

So having slept on it ..... as somebody who has absolutely hammered MLSE, I have to say that, assuming that Payne gets Burke/Colangelo type control, (and, I don't care what anyone says, if Cochrane remains an important part of the soccer setup, that will be a sign that Payne doesn't have full control) this is about as good as the news could be. It is a truly professional, sincere effort to address the problem, which is appreciated and refreshing.

But I'm still not renewing. The cupboard is incredibly bare, this is a bad team, this will take time, and I have just not had enough fun at games to know that I want to go to 10 or more games, in all weather.

Bottom line: I will go to some games, but will resume my real financial commitment in response to success, not in anticipation of it.

Same here - and I told my rep as much. It's a good start, but they need to stand behind it, and not make even more jerk knee decisions if things aren't rosey at first and they need a sell for renewals.

[brad]

Not true. From what I heard a few times in the past from Anselmi was that Cochrane's primary attribute was basically being a 'capologist'. Every team that plays in a salary capped league usually has one on hand to balance the budget. I will say this though; I think Cochrane is a poor GM and makes poor roster decisions but, since he took over the team we've never had so much room under the cap as we do now. We have a ton of room to make moves and the league hasn't even stated what our magical wooden spoon allocation amount will be or how much the cap threshold will raise. In this capacity a used car salesman type like Cochrane can be valuable.

I'll also add, Cochrane worked for Payne in the past. So if he keeps him, it could simply be an indication that he has a use for him.

[ryan]

Not true. From what I heard a few times in the past from Anselmi was that Cochrane's primary attribute was basically being a 'capologist'. Every team that plays in a salary capped league usually has one on hand to balance the budget. I will say this though; I think Cochrane is a poor GM and makes poor roster decisions but, since he took over the team we've never had so much room under the cap as we do now. We have a ton of room to make moves and the league hasn't even stated what our magical wooden spoon allocation amount will be or how much the cap threshold will raise. In this capacity a used car salesman type like Cochrane can be valuable.

I'm not so sure I'm gonna applaud a guy for letting contracts expire to space is freed.

[DangerRed]

So having slept on it ..... as somebody who has absolutely hammered MLSE, I have to say that, assuming that Payne gets Burke/Colangelo type control, (and, I don't care what anyone says, if Cochrane remains an important part of the soccer setup, that will be a sign that Payne doesn't have full control) this is about as good as the news could be. It is a truly professional, sincere effort to address the problem, which is appreciated and refreshing.

But I'm still not renewing. The cupboard is incredibly bare, this is a bad team, this will take time, and I have just not had enough fun at games to know that I want to go to 10 or more games, in all weather.

Bottom line: I will go to some games, but will resume my real financial commitment in response to success, not in anticipation of it.

Samesies. I'll help fuel the "aftermarket" this upcoming season, with a wait-and-see attitude. Plus a couple of years from now, my boy will be old enough to bring to games.. Ah, a new dad can dream.

Back on topic, it'd be fantastic if The Earl Himself also announced he was leaving TFC immediately to pursue other opportunities. And to whoever called him a "capologist," how has done at that job? Our cap situation is beyond fucked and all he's done is not re-signed guys to free up room. Big fucking deal. A well-placed rooster could do that job, given the proper equipment.

[ensco]

For those who think Cochrane staying would be OK, I think there is a basic confusion about the nature of the jobs in an FO.

Yes, the job is a "capologist" job, and a lot else besides. It's critical. The person we need is not someone who has primary responsibility for the mess we are in.

They are long-term jobs, it's not like the on-field manager, the people there are expected to last as long as, and be candidates to be the successor to, the GM/President. The GM/President must have 100% sole discretion to pick those people. It is a deeply personal and idiosyncratic choice, and traditional credentials are not necessarily important. (Remember, AA got this job from Ricciardi when he was maybe 28 years old!)

I would expect that Payne would be considering candidates from the DCU FO (unless his termination provisions forbid it) as well as from all over the league, and maybe the world.

I don't know Payne from Adam, but imho, given who he is, there is simply no way that Cochrane could be Payne's first choice. None. Payne is not going to look at what has happened here and come to any other conclusion.

Cochrane was a loyal soldier for Anselmi. I suspect some of the episodes we hold him responsible for (Dero/Celtic, Sturgis trade, Plata loan) were not what they seem, ie he was taking bullets for the FO as a whole. I don't hate the guy.

But this is how it is when this level of suckitude happens on your watch. Until today, Anselmi was the soccer president, and Cochrane had that supporting role for Anselmi, but it has to be over.

[Oldtimer]

from the Sportsnet article:

The 59-year-old executive helped put together the original investment group for D.C. United, and was the team's first general manager. He also hired Bruce Arena, a successful coach at the University of Virginia, giving him his first head coaching job in MLS.

Just pointing this out... bringing Bruce Arena to MLS was just the sort of stroke of genius that this team needs.

Also note in this article that Thomas Rongen won an MLS Cup under Payne in 1999. Payne had 4 MLS Cups (count them), and many other honours.

[TOBOR !]

$20 says TFC thinks they've signed him, but he ends up somewhere else. lulz.

There's still time for this to happen, folks !

[spark]

I'm not so sure I'm gonna applaud a guy for letting contracts expire to space is freed.

Yeah seriously wtf is anyone actually applauding anything from him? Sorry but all our moves once Aron was gone were completely short-sighted with no long term vision attached- especially when it comes to salaries. If Toronto weren't desperately trying to save a season that was already gone we wouldn't have signed Hassli or brought on a CB for triple or quadruple the cost of this year's defender of the year.