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    Default Paul Mariner on Soccer Central

    Cost cutting moves:

    Adrian Cann- 110K
    Ty Harden- 90K
    Dicoy Williams- 54K

    On youngsters released and signed from the academy:

    -We try to help the guys find a place to go after they are no longer useful to TFC. We dont just let them go without a direction. LOL

    On DP's:

    - We got Hassli, Koevermans, and Frings taking up 1.2 million and then after that you gotta divide the rest between the other players.
    - Koevermans is unknown as far as his injury.

    Scouting:

    He's been away from the team since Oct.31st, in Scandinavia and Cyprus, tenders have been made but they're waiting on signitures.

    Last edited by [NBF]; 11-17-2012 at 03:02 PM.

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    "We are gonna play creative football don't you worry about that" lol okay just as creative as this years hoofball. Only bright spot for me was scouting in Scandinavia. Tons of untapped potential talent there. Maybe he does know something about football?

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    Perhaps he is scouting the Canadians - Nakajima-Farran and Klukowski - in Cypress.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issey_Nakajima-Farran
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Klukowski

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    After the 8-1 match, Kluks is dead to me.

    Farran is no fit for MLS either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [NBF] View Post

    Scouting:

    He's been away from the team since Oct.31st, in Scandinavia and Cyprus, tenders have been made but they're waiting on signitures.
    beer drinking trip

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    Quote Originally Posted by tovan View Post
    Perhaps he is scouting the Canadians - Nakajima-Farran and Klukowski - in Cypress.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issey_Nakajima-Farran
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Klukowski
    Issey is on a 2-year with AEK. Klukowski doesn't make sense for TFC, Morgan is younger, better, cheaper. I actually can't believe Klukowski gets some decent PT with such a big club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonc View Post
    Issey is on a 2-year with AEK. Klukowski doesn't make sense for TFC, Morgan is younger, better, cheaper. I actually can't believe Klukowski gets some decent PT with such a big club.
    Klukowski was once considered one of best fullback in CONCACAF... Mexico included
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Give me a break. Europe? Why can't we have South American DP's like Columbus and Seattle? or Central Americans like Real Salt Lake?

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    Thats a very legitimate question. This organization seems to step out of its way to not deal with SA players. Its like they think there all lazy, have ego issues, party boys and need bribes on the side.

    I think other clubs are willing to better man manage some of the more "colourful" SA players. TFC seem to have an issue with this and rather ship them out the second an issue crops up(Plata for one).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soccerpro View Post
    Give me a break. Europe? Why can't we have South American DP's like Columbus and Seattle? or Central Americans like Real Salt Lake?
    just because they are from SA/CA, doesn't mean they will succeed in MLS.

    I consider 8 out of 17 European DPs to be a 'success' in MLS. Beckham, Henry, Koevermans, Keane, di Vaio, Tiffert, Nkufo, Rost
    10/20 South Americans a 'success'. Fernandez, Montero, Ferreira, Rosales, Morales, Higuain, Barros Scheletto, Mendoza, Angel, Castillo,
    3/8 Central Americans a 'success'. Boniek Garcia, Blanco, Saborio

    The percentage of 'successful' DPs by region doesn't seem to vary too much.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Hey, how about Chris Posniak and Nana Attakora back with TFC? It's a possiblity, cuz both are midfielder/defender and playing in Scandinavia. They're more than capable of handling TFC tasks as they have done so in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Klukowski was once considered one of best fullback in CONCACAF... Mexico included
    I won't argue. De Guzman was an excellent player not that long ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soccerpro View Post
    Give me a break. Europe? Why can't we have South American DP's like Columbus and Seattle? or Central Americans like Real Salt Lake?

    They dont have to be DP's, just a starting 11 player. Its skill level, the players that you can find in south america are younger, cheaper and generally more skillful than anything that will come out of europe.


    But if your looking for a Dp its better to go to europe, because the nature of the game they carry themselves with more professionalism.



    My thing is why go to Cyprus, when the Greek economy is failing. Do you know how many players are not sure about their future in Greece and would love some guarantees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleUp View Post
    They dont have to be DP's, just a starting 11 player. Its skill level, the players that you can find in south america are younger, cheaper and generally more skillful than anything that will come out of europe.


    But if your looking for a Dp its better to go to europe, because the nature of the game they carry themselves with more professionalism.



    My thing is why go to Cyprus, when the Greek economy is failing. Do you know how many players are not sure about their future in Greece and would love some guarantees.

    He must know what he doing, they are Football powerhouse nations after all.


    This change has got to start at the TOP.
    We have already changed everything else the past six years ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleUp View Post
    They dont have to be DP's, just a starting 11 player. Its skill level, the players that you can find in south america are younger, cheaper and generally more skillful than anything that will come out of europe.


    But if your looking for a Dp its better to go to europe, because the nature of the game they carry themselves with more professionalism.



    My thing is why go to Cyprus, when the Greek economy is failing. Do you know how many players are not sure about their future in Greece and would love some guarantees.
    You do realize that Greece and Cyprus are two different countries with completely different economies, right? Actually Cyprus' economy is pretty strong.

    Also, the Greek league is stronger than the Cypriot one. So if you were talking about where to go to get talent, I'd say Greece over Cyprus but even then you'd be overpaying. In general, any player you get from Europe you will have to overpay in order to give them the incentives to leave Europe. The best leagues are in Europe and even if you aren't an EPL player, you aren't going to risk your career by going to the still growing MLS. Players receive much more exposure in Europe than they do here.

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    Mariner is full of shit as usual. Too bad ML$E is being cheap to buyout Mariner's contract. I am sure that's only reason why Mariner is still here. Plus, not to make Tommy Boy look bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Thats a very legitimate question. This organization seems to step out of its way to not deal with SA players. Its like they think there all lazy, have ego issues, party boys and need bribes on the side.

    I think other clubs are willing to better man manage some of the more "colourful" SA players. TFC seem to have an issue with this and rather ship them out the second an issue crops up(Plata for one).
    It's all about appealing to the demographic of the Toronto FC fan, europeans. Large white/euro heritage is the vast majority of fans in the stands.

    Besides, SA players like to do things on the ball and Mariner just wants people to kick it around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Klukowski was once considered one of best fullback in CONCACAF... Mexico included
    What...5 years ago? Dude fell off a cliff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan View Post


    What...5 years ago? Dude fell off a cliff.
    Maybe since 2010. His stock dropped considerably after he moved to Turkey
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleUp View Post

    My thing is why go to Cyprus, when the Greek economy is failing. Do you know how many players are not sure about their future in Greece and would love some guarantees.
    Quote Originally Posted by PAOK17 View Post
    You do realize that Greece and Cyprus are two different countries with completely different economies, right? Actually Cyprus' economy is pretty strong.

    Also, the Greek league is stronger than the Cypriot one. So if you were talking about where to go to get talent, I'd say Greece over Cyprus but even then you'd be overpaying. In general, any player you get from Europe you will have to overpay in order to give them the incentives to leave Europe. The best leagues are in Europe and even if you aren't an EPL player, you aren't going to risk your career by going to the still growing MLS. Players receive much more exposure in Europe than they do here.
    DU is saying just that. Why go to Cyprus, a smaller league when you may have a chance to cherry pick players in the Greek league.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleUp View Post
    My thing is why go to Cyprus, when the Greek economy is failing. Do you know how many players are not sure about their future in Greece and would love some guarantees.
    Not only that, Cyprus runs a fall/winter season, just like most of Europe. What are the chances he is going to find a player there that is available on a free transfer?

    Scandinavia I can sort of understand, as they do run a summer season like MLS. I can understand looking for players there who will soon be out of contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by narduch View Post

    Scandinavia I can sort of understand, as they do run a summer season like MLS. I can understand looking for players there who will soon be out of contract.
    Possible pre-season friendlies talk (I hope).
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    DU is saying just that. Why go to Cyprus, a smaller league when you may have a chance to cherry pick players in the Greek league.
    Whoops! My bad. I totally misread that. In my defence, I had just come off a long flight and had no sleep when I posted that. I feel like an idiot, now ha

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    Quote Originally Posted by narduch View Post
    Not only that, Cyprus runs a fall/winter season, just like most of Europe. What are the chances he is going to find a player there that is available on a free transfer?

    Scandinavia I can sort of understand, as they do run a summer season like MLS. I can understand looking for players there who will soon be out of contract.
    I believe Brazil, and most of the south american leagues just wrapped up its season as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by narduch View Post
    Not only that, Cyprus runs a fall/winter season, just like most of Europe. What are the chances he is going to find a player there that is available on a free transfer?

    Scandinavia I can sort of understand, as they do run a summer season like MLS. I can understand looking for players there who will soon be out of contract.
    Many Euro players get their January release if they're not playing -- they're told six months ahead, as per Bosman rules, that they're not going to be renewed, so that they can start negotiating with other clubs. So it makes sense to go now AND at the end of the Euro season.

    What doesn't make sense is sending your manager. Yes, he should be able to judge talent. But a scout should be a dedicated craft: judge the talent, dig into the player's background, interview past players and associates -- minimize the risk that one of the any number of variables other than the rather nebulously defined "talent" will prevent the player from having success.

    This approach --- "ooh, I like this lad. Let's have a punt!" -- is asinine, if that's what it amounts to. I dunno, maybe he's been looking at some of these guys for two years. It wouldn't explain why under Winter he could onyl find us Andy Iro and Giovanni Caicedo, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Many Euro players get their January release if they're not playing -- they're told six months ahead, as per Bosman rules, that they're not going to be renewed, so that they can start negotiating with other clubs. So it makes sense to go now AND at the end of the Euro season.

    What doesn't make sense is sending your manager. Yes, he should be able to judge talent. But a scout should be a dedicated craft: judge the talent, dig into the player's background, interview past players and associates -- minimize the risk that one of the any number of variables other than the rather nebulously defined "talent" will prevent the player from having success.

    This approach --- "ooh, I like this lad. Let's have a punt!" -- is asinine, if that's what it amounts to. I dunno, maybe he's been looking at some of these guys for two years. It wouldn't explain why under Winter he could onyl find us Andy Iro and Giovanni Caicedo, of course.
    Its still a little early for that 6-month clause to kick in I think, but that is a great point.

    And I'm totally in agreement that its not normal for the manager himself going on these trips. But it seems to be a TFC thing (ie Mo Johnston). The kind of player we are trying to grab from these leagues is probably out of favour and isn't even playing. So a scouting trip by the manager is nearly pointless.

    I'm still convinced this was a vacation sold as scouting. Maybe Mariner likes the beach (Bermuda, Cyprus)
    Last edited by narduch; 11-19-2012 at 02:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Many Euro players get their January release if they're not playing -- they're told six months ahead, as per Bosman rules, that they're not going to be renewed, so that they can start negotiating with other clubs. So it makes sense to go now AND at the end of the Euro season.
    Getting players from the winter transfer season means that the players tend to be rejects. That's still fine if you're getting players who are rejected from top clubs since they are constantly trying to improve their clubs. However, what kind of player are you expecting to get that is being released/not renewed from Cyprus? Remember, the Cypriot league, like many other leagues in Europe, doesn't have parity. So there is a big drop from the top 3 or so clubs with the rest of the league. Are we going for players being released by APOEL or Ethnicos Achnas?

    Now the real reason we are looking at Cyprus/Scandinavia is probably because those are the players that we can afford according to our salary cap. But Europeans don't come cheaply. Like I said before, our best bet is to go for Central American talent since the improved lifestyle is enough of an incentive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAOK17 View Post
    Now the real reason we are looking at Cyprus/Scandinavia is probably because those are the players that we can afford according to our salary cap. But Europeans don't come cheaply. Like I said before, our best bet is to go for Central American talent since the improved lifestyle is enough of an incentive.
    How does that differ from Eastern Europe? Poor countries, tough areas, bankrupt governments and teams who simply DO NOT PAY their players.

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    Cypriot first division is nothing to scoff at. They rank ahead of some fairly impressive European leagues. That said, I'm not sure it's the type of league we should be scouting. Most places in Europe you'll be overpaying for talent, regardless of the transfer situation. Serbia and Croatia are a different story though, you wont get much better bang for the buck anywhere else in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan View Post
    How does that differ from Eastern Europe? Poor countries, tough areas, bankrupt governments and teams who simply DO NOT PAY their players.
    That does work as well. I'm not so sure that our management have gone there or are planning to go there. Cyprus/Scandinavia are far from Eastern Europe with respect to poor countries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by narduch View Post
    I'm still convinced this was a vacation sold as scouting. Maybe Mariner likes the beach (Bermuda, Cyprus)
    I hear the Scandinavian beach scene is bustling at this time of year!

 

 

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