It sort of reminds me of out Dutch experiment TBH. It's nice to have a style of play in mind, but is that the right style for the MLS? Will it work here, with the players that you have at your disposal and will play for the kind of salaries that the MLS pays?Originally Posted by v00d00daddy
I'd honestly be more impressed if they were on their way to building a core team of North American players.
And I wish we were still working with the "Dutch experiment" plan.
Instead we're a bad expansion team with a terrible reputation, an ownership group that is clueless and a coach that is a bumbling , arrogant fuckhead that is stuck in the 80s with his playing style.
On the old side of things you have: Corradi, Nesta, and Di Vaio
But others who could be around longer: Rivas, Ferrari, potentially similar Iapichino and Felipe (who both played in Switzerland).
As long as their contracts aren't too ridiculous, they can cycle more guys in-and-out. If they establish a good reputation it could work to their advantage. They seem to know what they want and seem to think they can get it better than others because of the ownership connections. Seems like a reasonable way of building a talent acquisition strategy. They have a pretty high hit-rate thus far, Di Vaio and Corradi being mildly underwhelming but not disasters. Otherwise I think the results speek for themselves. 42 points after a slow start is a pretty good performance IMO.
TFC never truly tried to establish Dutch experiment because Mariner and Co undermine Winter. Winter never got the players he wanted and took a lot of crap players in. I am not saying Winter is completely innocent, but this experiment was doom to fail from the start because not everyone in TFC FO were on board with this experiment. So you can't really say dutch experiment failed in this case.
Agreed and I don't think we can underestimate what a good experience for the older guys can translate into.
Guys like nesta and divaio can go back to Italy and let people know that Montreal is a good opportunity to play a style suited to their games and where they'll find a professional atmosphere and a competitive team.
Anyone think Frings or Koevermans are going to go back to holland and Germany with encouraging words for their footballing colleagues?
I don't.
That's a load of crap. Winter broke the league transfer last year and if he didn't get the players that could execute his system properly it was because of:
A) He was a poor evaluator of MLS talent
B) His 'teaching' of said system wasn't up to par
C) He was handcuffed by the MLS salary cap as to the quality of players he could get
D) All of the above
Really?
Ferrari $185,000 - Eckersley $390,000
Rivas $50,000 - Cann $134,000
Nesta $225,000 - O'Dea $436,000
Bernier $150,000 - DeGuzman -$1,900,000
Martins $120,000 - Avila $158,000
Which players would you prefer taking into account this is a capped league? Are they any players on Toronto that offer value for money right now? Dunfield and Morgan are all I can think of.
They are twins, 22 years old (MF and F). I'm assuming not at a high level given that they are trialling with TFC in the MLS
Mariner job was to bring the players that fitted what Winter tried to establish, but he failed to do so. Also, Mariner was hired to bring his MLS experience and help Winter and co as well. There were players Winter wanted, but Mariner rejected to bring in. We all know players like Iro, Eck, etc... were bought by Mariner not Winter. Don't be so naïve and believe what Mariner and his buddies are saying in the media. They're just covering their asses and blaming their short comings on Winter.
22 year old players from from NASL isn't exactly impressive these days since we got players younger than them playing in MLS (including TFC) already. lol We can do better than that!They are twins, 22 years old (MF and F). I'm assuming not at a high level given that they are trialling with TFC in the MLS
TFC focused on Canadians (partly due to roster restrictions) and Brits for the first 3 years. They played a consistent style. Mo also had a plan to succeed by stocking up allocation money for a run in year 3. How did that turn out?
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Difference is quality of foreign players TFC were trying to bring in. Montreal is bringing players who have played first tier in one of better leagues in the world while TFC were bringing in lower English league players.
It didn't turn out very well.
But I don't think it's fair to compare the quality of player from TFC in years 1 and 2 to the quality that Montreal brought in in year one.
And there's also no comparing the results. And montreal a results carry even more weight because the quality of the league is better now than it was in 2007.
So...just because TFC failed with Canadians and Brits in 2007, doesn't mean Montreal will fail now.
Of note: Eckersley is at $220k. Don't count his transfer fee after this season. The pay is similar to Ferrari's. Is he better? We'll see but he does have youth on his side. Cann, classic overpaying of Canadian content. No defense for that although no one bitched about it when he was MVP a couple years back. O'Dea is expensive but a generation younger than Nesta. JDG is a long known overpaid Canuck during our Canuck or bust years. Avila was fine as he was GA. Now, not so much.
That's due to the DP rule changes. However, everyone else can buy Designated Players so the step-up in quality doesn't mean Montreal will get any more wins.
I like Joey, he's a passionate owner. It would be hard for most coaches to work with him though. When they were D-2, they went through as many as 3 a year. That won't work in MLS.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Also back onto Crazy Joey, think of it like this;
Tom Anselmi is the defacto 'boss' of the team. Or was anyway. He could do anything he wanted really. He admits to knowing nothing about Football or MLS and therefore hires 'experts' to do the thinking for him. They fuck it up repeatedly.
Next you have Crazy Joey, would never admit to knowing nothing about Football or MLS (has little experience beyond owning the Impact albeit for many years) yet tinkers with the team and fires an up and coming manager, whom the supporters supported, for what's been rumored as either a revolt of the Italian players against Marsch and his style of play or because he benched Bernier to light a fire under his ass earlier this year against Saputo's wishes. It should be said that the benching worked as he went on a tear after and was their MVP.
Now which would you rather have; absentee Anselmi or meddling Joey? Preferably neither but I'd take Ansemi if I had to pick. Soon no manager will want to go to the Impact and be on Saputo's puppet strings and that type of ownership meddling always comes back against teams. And if Anselmi just keeps up his usual and keeps getting new managers and regimes then one of them finally has to work out, right? Law of averages and all.
Hopefully we can but who said these guys were looked on as saviors? Maybe just better options to use at $44k than some of the duds we're paying far more than that for (Wiedeman, Hall).
damn those GA contracts!
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Toronto didn't pay a transfer fee for Eckersley. Burnley stated on their website at the time that the contract was mutually cancelled and he was free to find a new club. The story is no longer on their site but it is referenced in articles by Sky Sports, UK news papers and the11.ca
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7458403/
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...act_cancelled/
http://the11.ca/2012/01/25/burnley-c...-for-tfc-deal/
People keep quoting his base number, but we still have to pay the transfer fee as well if that's what it's going to. Resources are resources regardless of whether they go into his salary or are paid to another club.
Really?
I don't know how anyone could look at our track record with managers and somehow construe that as a positive. The only thing this team has going for it is that they have resources. Otherwise, they have existing staff they'll saddle you with, who are willing to back-stab and aren't very good at what they do.
Montreal MIGHT have problems. TFC does have problems. Most of what you're writing about "crazy Joey" is speculation. We'll see if he's proven right or wrong in his assessment of Marsh next year.
I will take him over MLSE any day.
The thing is though that resources are going into this from the league, not necessarily from TFC. Eckersley's contract was negotiated with the MLS and paid by the MLS. Believe it or not, his budget charge in 2013 might actually be less this year than it was in 2012.
It is a weird world but one that I would invite you to check out tomorrow at WakingtheRed. There is an in depth look at the salary "budget" in the MLS. The implications for all of us that want to play armchair GM, including me who thought I understood it, are pretty significant. Happy to discuss this further.
Moderator
TFC have, in the past, signed players from leagues across Europe, and brought in trialists from the same places. And not just England - remember those Eastern European busts we signed last year?
So again - this is a complete non story. Perhaps you have a good idea about looking harder in Italy specifically, but that has nothing to do with Montreal "moving forward", and even less to do with TFC's pants. We are constantly bringing in players on trial, many of whom come and go like the wind.
TFC's terrible scouting pratices are ripe for well deserved criticism, but it doesn't make the OP for this thread any less ridiculous. He says nothing about TFC's scouting, and instead points to Montreal having a few European trialists as evidence of "moving forward", despite the fact that every team is constantly trialing players from all over the place.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Moderator
If it was a matter of snapping my fingers, sure. But I don't think either owner is going to bring a ton of success to their team, for different reasons.
When you're the worst, second worst is technically an upgrade.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
BTW - TFC (this past summer - under Mariner) did actually trial a promising young Italian player (plying his trade in Italy). He's represented Italy at every level except the senior team, and done well and is still considered a prospect in Italy.
Can't divulge any more details as I promised I wouldn't, but the source was direct from a family member of the player in Toronto. I'm not sure what came of it, I sort of forgot about it until now. I'll have to ask.
Actually a number of the players brought in had top flight experience. Ricketts, Dichio, O'Brien, Robbo, Robert, Tebeily all played in the EPL. Even Brennan and Welsch did.
There was also ex Lecce fullback Alberto Giuliatto who trialed in the summer.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Ronnie O'Brien played in Middlesborough reserves according to wiki
Johann Smith did get few games for Bolton
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
The players Toronto scout are weak. I dont even trust them to trial properly.
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