Montreal continues to move forward. TFC shits it's pants

[Oldtimer]

This right here.

If you want to compare TFC to a team that is doing it right and moving forward - look at teams that have a tradition of being winners in the MLS - Houston, LA - in more recent years RSL, Seattle

Just because Montreal has brought in a couple of trail players or are playing friendlies against Italian reserves all without having a coach in place doesn't equate to "doing it right"

Somebody gets it.

[Oldtimer]

Meanwhile TFC hopes against all hope that the idiots in charge will somehow turn things around, despite all the glaring signs that they have no clue what they are doing.

No question TFC is worse.

[narduch]

There are some who regard them as a possible backup. It's predictable those people would find it less unappealing to talk about our only rival so much.

I would never cheer for Montreal, ever. So this arguement is totally invalid.

I do get a good laugh at how defensive some TFC fans are.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I would never cheer for Montreal, ever. So this arguement is totally invalid.

I do get a good laugh at how defensive some TFC fans are.

You don't count yourself among the some I refer. That makes it invalid to you, laughing boy. You're not the only one on the internetz.

[narduch]

You don't count yourself among the some I refer. That makes it invalid to you, laughing boy. You're not the only one on the internetz.

You're a mod. Do you really need to be a dick?

But its par for the course for you so I really shouldn't expect better.

[ag futbol]

11 coaches in 10 years. After a while you stop blaming the coach and look at the man behind the curtain.

But really, who cares about the number of coaches? The results were good.

I thought Marsh was decent enough, but depending on how things worked behind the scenes his genius could easily have been over stated. He made some curious moves, like benching Bernier to start the year, that really didn't sit well with with the more experienced veteran players on the team. It also seemed like he had issues getting guys like Mapp, Syassi, and Arnaud to play up to the level of their teammates, yet he looked for leadership from two of those guys.

[Oldtimer]

But really, who cares about the number of coaches? The results were good.

Funny how everyone complains about the number of coaches TFC has had, but when it's Montreal it's A-OK, even brilliant!

The results were better than TFC, the Worst Team Ever in MLS, but saying the results were "good" is hyperbole.

Look at Seattle in their first season in MLS:
30 games played
12 wins (win 40%)
7 losses (lose 23%)
11 ties
4th in the hard-to-play-in West
Playoffs in year 1

Now look at Montreal:
34 games played
12 wins (win 35%)
16 losses (lose 47%)
6 ties
7th in the easier East
missed the playoffs

lesson: everyone looks fantastic compared to TFC, but let's look at the best in the league to envy.

[narduch]

lesson: everyone looks fantastic compared to TFC, but let's look at the best in the league to envy.

I see the target has moved.

First it was "Montreal is just as bad as Toronto".

Because that arguement was easily shown to be flawed, it has moved to "lets try to be like the even better teams". Well, duh. Nobody here would disagree with that.

[Oldtimer]

I see the target has moved.

First it was "Montreal is just as bad as Toronto".

Because that arguement was easily shown to be flawed, it has moved to "lets try to be like the even better teams". Well, duh. Nobody here would disagree with that.

I've been consistent.

Montreal is a poor team. I never said that it was equal in suckiness to Toronto, here's my first post in this thread:

We had a thread like this one about how amazing Vancouver's original setup was and how they were going to make the playoffs in year 1.

They failed miserably, and after some disfunction similar to TFC blew up that "amazing" setup up and now barely squeaked into the playoffs a year later, hardly inspiring.

When your team sucks as badly as TFC has, any other team looks amazing. However, I'd rather emulate the better teams in MLS instead of Montreal, or Vancouver for that matter. They are hardly examples.

I'm glad you now agree.

[ag futbol]

Funny how everyone complains about the number of coaches TFC has had, but when it's Montreal it's A-OK, even brilliant!

The results were better than TFC, the Worst Team Ever in MLS, but saying the results were "good" is hyperbole.

Look at Seattle in their first season in MLS:
30 games played
12 wins (win 40%)
7 losses (lose 23%)
11 ties
4th in the hard-to-play-in West
Playoffs in year 1

Now look at Montreal:
34 games played
12 wins (win 35%)
16 losses (lose 47%)
6 ties
7th in the easier East
missed the playoffs

lesson: everyone looks fantastic compared to TFC, but let's look at the best in the league to envy.

whoa, whoa, whoa... wait a second.

Is 40 + points for their first year in the league not a good result? I disagree with that.

I also think the characterization of the east being worse than the west is off base. Two teams with 40+ points this year in the East missed the playoffs. Let's not forget the east has an extra team that needs to be jumped if you want to place in the top five to make the playoffs.

As for complaining about the number of coaches TFC has, well it's obvious people do that because the results have been poor. Montreal in USL and thus far in MLS has not had bad results. That's the difference.

I'm not sure if I would describe what we are talking about here as "admiration" but rather closer to annoyance. This franchise has trotted excuses out about a whole hoist of things in their history, many of those same problems / conditions apply to clubs like Montreal and Vancouver, and in the end they just seem to blow right through them while we twiddle our fingers.

[narduch]

I'm glad you now agree.

Don't be a fucking douchebag acting like you've won some debate here. Because you haven't at all.

[tfcleeds]

Not sure why I'm posting this here, or why I've decided to come forward now to say this, but the truth is, I have a major skeleton in my closet. Back in the pre-TFC days, in the A-league days specifically - I followed (supported doesn't sound like quite the right word) - the (shudder)......Impact

[Oldtimer]

Don't be a fucking douchebag acting like you've won some debate here. Because you haven't at all.

hahaha

I'm not interested in being king of the interwebs.

I just love it when people who act like everyone else is stupid descend to insults when their own self-contradictory position is shown to them in black and white.

Anyways it was a friendly point, hence the smiley, too bad you didn't want to respond in kind.

[Oldtimer]

Not sure why I'm posting this here, or why I've decided to come forward now to say this, but the truth is, I have a major skeleton in my closet. Back in the pre-TFC days, in the A-league days specifically - I followed (supported doesn't sound like quite the right word) - the (shudder)......Impact

I was a DC United fan before TFC. Loved their latino style of play... and winning.
For D2 I went to Toronto Lynx games.

[narduch]

I just love it when people who act like everyone else is stupid descend to insults when their own self-contradictory position is shown to them in black and white.

There was no contradiction at all. Are you this obtuse on purpose?

I'm going to have to start ignoring your posts. You have always had shaky logic to begin with. But your smugness about it is annoying.

[Oldtimer]

There was no contradiction at all. Are you this obtuse on purpose?

I'm going to have to start ignoring your posts. You have always had shaky logic to begin with. But your smugness about it is annoying.

You said that the target had moved. I proved that was a false accusation. Nothing smug about it at all. (hint, insulting people doesn't help you win friends and influence people, try to respond without the ad hominem attacks).

[tfcleeds]

I was a DC United fan before TFC. Loved their latino style of play... and winning.For D2 I went to Toronto Lynx games.

In MLS pre-TFC was a casual Revs fan. Never really got into the Lynx for some reason.

[narduch]

whoa, whoa, whoa... wait a second.

Is 40 + points for their first year in the league not a good result? I disagree with that.

I also think the characterization of the east being worse than the west is off base. Two teams with 40+ points this year in the East missed the playoffs. Let's not forget the east has an extra team that needs to be jumped if you want to place in the top five to make the playoffs.

As for complaining about the number of coaches TFC has, well it's obvious people do that because the results have been poor. Montreal in USL and thus far in MLS has not had bad results. That's the difference.

I'm not sure if I would describe what we are talking about here as "admiration" but rather closer to annoyance. This franchise has trotted excuses out about a whole hoist of things in their history, many of those same problems / conditions apply to clubs like Montreal and Vancouver, and in the end they just seem to blow right through them while we twiddle our fingers.

Its not fair to only compare Montreal's fist MLS season to only Seattle. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but of all the expansion teams since the league retracted the 2 Florida teams, I think Montreal had the 2nd best season, being only behind Seattle. None of RSL, Chivas, TFC, San Jose, Portland or Philly debuted as well.

Like I said earlier, teams all over the world tend to cycle through coaches until they hit the right one. This happens everywhere.

The move to turf Marsch can only really be judged by who his replacement is.

[Oldtimer]

In MLS pre-TFC was a casual Revs fan. Never really got into the Lynx for some reason.

I don't blame you one bit. Few people did. In fact, almost no-one knew they existed. Poor underfunded ownership didn't help.
The only supporters were about a dozen U-Sector, who formed the original group.

DC played a very attractive style of football for the era. Having the over-hyped Freddy Adu also gave them some real profile. Plus they had the only decent supporters group (the Barra Brava) at the time. It was a lot of fun. I was tentatively planning a trip to DC when TFC was announced, and I cancelled my plans.

[tfcleeds]

I don't blame you one bit. Few people did. In fact, almost no-one knew they existed. Poor underfunded ownership didn't help.The only supporters were about a dozen U-Sector, who formed the original group.

Yeah, for myself, I think it boils down to the fact that I adopted the old Montreal Supra as my CSL club back in the day (why? I don't know, I was an Alex Bunbury fan?) so when the A-League became the top tier of football in Canada, I simply kept on supporting the Impact. Anyways, not to hijack the thread, I only mentioned it as the issue of being neutral in our assessment of the direction the Impact are going in was brought up - and I actually DID used to follow them somewhat, way back when, haha.

[Oldtimer]

Yeah, for myself, I think it boils down to the fact that I adopted the old Montreal Supra as my CSL club back in the day (why? I don't know, I was an Alex Bunbury fan?) so when the A-League became the top tier of football in Canada, I simply kept on supporting the Impact. Anyways, not to hijack the thread, I only mentioned it as the issue of being neutral in our assessment of the direction the Impact are going in was brought up - and I actually DID used to follow them somewhat, way back when, haha.

No problem. Having some perspective helps, you can help us all out. Glad you're on the board.

[tfc2008]

Here everyone laugh with other teams, but they do something for 2013 and wat do TFC nothing.

[trane]

They fired him because:

A) they have higher expectations than Marsch was able to deliver

B) they have players not suited to his coaching style.

Simple really. They got decent results last year and they want better this year

I agree. As you see I have stopped posting, because their world view as far as football is opposed to mine.

[Toronto]

You mean:

Nick De Santis (former coach, fired by being kicked upstairs) now "sporting director"
Matt Jordan (former GK, no managerial experience) now "director of soccer operations"
and the legendary Adam Braz (former TFC and Impact defender) now "Team Manager"

Yeah, sure looks fantastic

Now let me draw the paralells to TFC mismanagement:

(1) Vague job descriptions, nobody knows who does what
(2) A huge lack of experience in many of the top positions
(3) A former coach getting kicked upstairs, to interfere with the current coach's decisions
(4) More than 1 coach per season
(5) A meddlesome upper manager (in their case who is also the owner)

Gotta love that awesome Montreal Impact

Now point out to me where on their board the LA Galaxy fans are talking up how great Montreal is, and how they better watch out next year.

I guess they will when they are told over and over that the Impact are their biggest rivals, they might, especially if Montreal is out pointing them at some point. The reason Montreal is important is that they are our number one rival. Period. If they're not, why bother going to the game there. We do suck and most of us would have enjoyed the season they had in Montreal this year than the one we were fucked slowly through. A what a terrible lay it was.

Let's face it. They have a deeper roster. They have better young players and they seem intent on winning more games next year. I doubt our FO has even goes into the office once a week. Montreal has been on tour. Trying to drum up some new connections. What good BUSINESSES do.

And that's the reality. Montreal is run like a real business. MLSE runs TFC like a country club where the number one rule is that as long as the fools show up, why worry about the business (the on field part) which at the end of the day ensures that more people buy tickets.

In 4 years, TFC will be as relevant as the Blizzard were at the end. Which is SAD beyond belief.

[Toronto]

YA I'm still fucking angry about 2012.

[Oldtimer]

I guess they will when they are told over and over that the Impact are their biggest rivals, they might, especially if Montreal is out pointing them at some point. The reason Montreal is important is that they are our number one rival. Period. If they're not, why bother going to the game there. We do suck and most of us would have enjoyed the season they had in Montreal this year than the one we were fucked slowly through. A what a terrible lay it was.

Let's face it. They have a deeper roster. They have better young players and they seem intent on winning more games next year. I doubt our FO has even goes into the office once a week. Montreal has been on tour. Trying to drum up some new connections. What good BUSINESSES do.

And that's the reality. Montreal is run like a real business. MLSE runs TFC like a country club where the number one rule is that as long as the fools show up, why worry about the business (the on field part) which at the end of the day ensures that more people buy tickets.

In 4 years, TFC will be as relevant as the Blizzard were at the end. Which is SAD beyond belief.

It looks like we have two camps:

You're saying we should compare ourselves with Montreal because they are a rival, period.
Those of us who take a different view think we should ignore Montreal and focus on the best teams.

The idea that the Impact are better than TFC, I don't think anyone on this board would disagree, I sure wouldn't.

[Shakes McQueen]

We do suck and most of us would have enjoyed the season they had in Montreal this year than the one we were fucked slowly through. A what a terrible lay it was.

I would have enjoyed a somewhat-less awful season? No. I'd prefer to have a good team - arguing over whether I'd welcome a lesser degree of terrible seems an insane concept to begin with. TFC finished one win out of the playoff a couple of years ago (after losing that 4-0 match in New York) - did we enjoy that?

Let's face it. They have a deeper roster. They have better young players and they seem intent on winning more games next year. I doubt our FO has even goes into the office once a week. Montreal has been on tour. Trying to drum up some new connections. What good BUSINESSES do.

As it stands right this moment, I don't think there's any question that they have a somewhat better roster than us, because they finished the year with a better record. Of course, if TFC has taught me one thing, it's that MLS rosters can be insanely fluid from one year to the next. Your stuff about TFC coming in to work once a week, is just baseless conjecture. And if we were "on tour" right now, I have this crazy suspicion that it wouldn't do anything to stem one iota of criticism - and rightfully so!

As a fan, I care about wins and losses. I don't care about critiquing how many business connections they have (something we have little to no information about anyway). As long as they entertain me every weekend, the entire team could go back into cryonic sleep for the next six days and not utter a word or do a thing. The problem they have with the fans is a crap team.

And that's the reality. Montreal is run like a real business. MLSE runs TFC like a country club where the number one rule is that as long as the fools show up, why worry about the business (the on field part) which at the end of the day ensures that more people buy tickets

I don't see much evidence that TFC/MLSE "don't worry" about the business of the team. I see lots of evidence that they are incompetent at managing it. That's a massive and meaningful distinction, when it comes to intent.

In 4 years, TFC will be as relevant as the Blizzard were at the end. Which is SAD beyond belief.

If they don't turn things around in a big way, I actually agree on this point. Outside of a small core of supporters who are intensely angry about the state of this team, it's nothing but silence. And silence is worse than anger, because it means more and more people simply don't care. There is no buzz surrounding this team at all, and they have nothing to sell for next season, except an empty, nebulous promise that they will be "better".

One or two more years of this lethargy, and the team could effectively be dead in the water - even if they somehow got better.

- Scott

[trane]

^ I think we discussed this. I am angry, deeply angry at what MLSE has done with this team. As I think me and you have agreed before, I feel somewhat betrayed at the fact that they have taken advantage too our initial somewhat blind devotion, which was brought on simply because so many of us loved football and this city, and therefore simply having a professional team called Toronto FC was enough. Now we need a team bearing the name of our city which actually knows how to play Football at a semi-decent professional level. Something that has eluded us far to often in the past 7 years.

[Shakes McQueen]

^ I think we discussed this. I am angry, deeply angry at what MLSE has done with this team. As I think me and you have agreed before, I feel somewhat betrayed at the fact that they have taken advantage too our initial somewhat blind devotion, which was brought on simply because so many of us loved football and this city, and therefore simply having a professional team called Toronto FC was enough. Now we need a team bearing the name of our city which actually knows how to play Football at a semi-decent professional level. Something that has eluded us far to often in the past 7 years.

I think this rings with some truth, but it's always the same - professional expansion teams in any sport, always get some measure of "blind devotion" for at least a year or two, because the fans are just happy to have a team. But eventually that party ends, and you have to be selling something of substance.

TFC spent that "honeymoon period" in the first couple of years, sitting back and enjoying the positive buzz and the massive profitability, instead of wisely laying groundwork for a successful team. And then when the honeymoon quickly ended, they scrambled to try and prove they were "serious" - in some good ways (I think their commitment to proper training and academy facilities has been genuinely laudable) - but mostly in bad and ineffective ways.

And when you couple that with the toxic reputation they've earned through player mistreatment, rifling through coaches, and taking advantage of the fans - it looks really dire.

- Scott

[Yohan]

Montreal in talks with former Impact and Canadian international defender Enzo Concina. Currently assistant in Napoli

http://www.mountroyalsoccer.com/2012...coach-position