Which max cap hit players should we keep?

[jloome]

Right now, we have five players at the cap max next season if they all come back. Obviously, this isn't going to work.

If you look at the illustration on the link below, it suggests we're getting frings and Hassli back. But I'd be willing to bet the majority of people who watch this team play, if they had their choice, would pick Danny K over both and might even pick O'Dea or Eckersley over both.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/10...r-expectations

So here's a multiple choice poll, keeping in mind that the max cap hit for each is $350,000. Who do we keep if we're smart about it?

Eckersley - $390,000
O'Dea - $436,250
Frings - $2.41 million
Hassli - $790,000
Koevermans - $1.56 million

[spe18]

Who is guaranteed for next season?

[Beach_Red]

This would have been a completely different season without the injuries, and yet the injuries seemed inevitable. This team spends way too much on guys on the downward slope of their careers. Does anyone really think Frings or Hassli or Kouvermans is going to play a full season each next year? So, I guess I'd pick Eckersley and O'Dea...

[Benficachop20]

ecks and o'dea are getting paid way to much for being nothing more than average players in their position. Think Frings is done and also don't believe Hassli is dp worthy. Keep Koevermans.

[mowe]

None of the above.

Hassli has not impressed, there's a reason Vancouver let him go. Frings is too old/slow to play in this league, especially as a DP. Eckersley and O'Dea are MLS-level talents (at their natural positions) but are vastly overpaid. Koevermans won't be ready until a few months into the season, and who knows how he'll play after the injury.

Of course finding replacements for all these players is probably not feasible so Ecks/O'Dea will stay. I'm hoping Frings helps us out and retires. Hassli needs to be let go, but I think Mariner will keep him around as cover until Koevermans gets back.

To field a competitive team we really need cut down to one DP (or ideally none) because of the max cap hits of Ecks and O'Dea. Use the cap space to sign a CB to pair with O'Dea or just commit to Henry at that spot (unlikely Mariner would do that). Now that I think about it there are holes all over the roster.

We need a new midfield around Silva, and new strikers. Hopefully the draft will help out here and get us a player on the level of Mattocks or Wenger. Eriq Zavaleta looks good, and he's GA too.

Kocic
Ecks - Henry - O'Dea - Morgan
Lambe - DM - Silva - LM
Draft pick - F

Oldest player in that lineup is Kocic at 27. This can be a decent young group that can grow together. Since we're stuck with Mariner I wish him good luck with finding some overlooked players with upside. We need to start building some continuity and the first step is to cut loose the players who aren't part of the future.

[narduch]

I think they will all be back. Frings and Koevermans are on guaranteed money.

Eckersley and O'Dea are Mariner's prized signings.

And Hassli was traded for a first rounder. They will want to keep him to not make that trade look too stupid.

[Phil]

Hassli is on an option. All others are for sure coming back unless injury forces them to retire or some move is made.

I know Danny is training like a beast so I do expect to see him back.

Frei and Kocic are out of contract, I would only expect to see one of them lured back.

[[NBF]]

I think they will all be back. Frings and Koevermans are on guaranteed money.

Eckersley and O'Dea are Mariner's prized signings.

And Hassli was traded for a first rounder. They will want to keep him to not make that trade look too stupid.

I think there's a deadline to cut DP's although I dont think you want to have the reputation of dumping DP's, but at this point it really dont get worse than being called the worst team in the world.

Explain how Paul Mariner gets credit for signing Richard Eckersley, but he doesnt take credit for all the other signings or lack there of when Aron Winter was in charge? If you recall he was on loan to TFC from Burnley in 2011. So how does Paul Mariner get credit for him and not others?

BTW, I voted for Eckersley and O'Dea, because I think this season proved that you cant overpay for starters and experience on defense. I also agree with everyone else that the team should cut down on the DP's until they have a solidified defense. Henry really needs to compete against an experience defender so that he can improve, so getting another centre back is essential.

[starter]

I only choose Danny, since I find others compensation limiting team options going forward.

[narduch]

I think there's a deadline to cut DP's although I dont think you want to have the reputation of dumping DP's, but at this point it really dont get worse than being called the worst team in the world.

Yes, there is a window where you can buy out a DP. But that it is up to the club and the player to come up with a resolution. Do you really think Koevermans or Frings are going to walk away from all that money? And we saw through the handling of De Guzman that they aren't interested in a a full payout. Which is probably what it will take to get either to walk away.

[MartinUtd]

O'Dea, Ecks & Koevermans.

Two good defenders who are over paid, but I have no confidence that the people making the decisions can do better with their money. I like Frings and would be happy to see him back, but I would prefer a somebody a bit younger. Koevermans is a beast and if it wasn't for one dangerous tackle after a shit defender got beat on a turf surface, he would have bagged 20 goals this season. I never rated Hassli and wanted him gone as soon as he got here.

[prizby]

Hassli is on an option. All others are for sure coming back unless injury forces them to retire or some move is made.

I know Danny is training like a beast so I do expect to see him back.

Frei and Kocic are out of contract, I would only expect to see one of them lured back.

didn't frei sign a 3 year contract last year?

[Joe Kool]

Frei and Kocic are out of contract, I would only expect to see one of them lured back.

Frei told me he is back next year for sure. Maybe he was just feeling confident but that's what he said. It didn't sound like there was any doubt. Guess we will see. The only GK I don't want back next year is Freddy Hall. Seems like nice enough guy but I have zero confidence in him.

As far as the poll goes I voted Koevermans, O'Dea and Ecks. I don't think we will get any better options to replace them in the offseason. Koevs can still be the man for us for at least another year if he can get fit. I don't think Frings has it so much anymore even though he says we will be back too. Hassli didn't sound like he was too sure that he would be here in his post game interview when asked but it might have been a language thing too in the way he answered. I think if Danny is good we should spend money elsewhere and not on Hassli.

[ag futbol]

At the salaries they are being paid? I don't want any of them back. Maybe Koevermans, if he can stay healthy.

Torsen - not sure what he has left in the tank

O'Dea + Eckersley - maybe at half their wages

Hassli - I'd like someone a little more durable for DP money.


Realistically, who is coming back? All of them. We're tied to all these guys for the reasons other posters have mentioned above. Going to be one hell of a year....

[ManUtd4ever]

The only player from the OP's list that doesn't have a guaranteed contract next season is Hassli. I think Hassli can be an impact player in this league, but his durability is a concern. If Koevs' recovery goes well during the off season, the cap space that would need be utilized to exercise the club option to retain Hassli would probably be better served elsewhere. If Koevs' recovery does not progress well, it might be worth a gamble bringing Hassli back for another season.

As for Frings, Ecks, and O'Dea, they are pretty much all guaranteed to be back next season unless one or more of them are traded within MLS during the off season, which is unlikely based on their respective salaries.

Our best hope is that Koevs makes a full recovery, and our other top paid players perform to their capabilities, so that their cumulative salaries will be somewhat justified next season.

[ensco]

Given existing contracts, they have maybe 500K to spend on 10 guys.

It's going to be the quietest offseason in MLS history.

[narduch]

Given existing contracts, they have maybe 500K to spend on 10 guys.

It's going to be the quietest offseason in MLS history.

The discovery signing rule will complicate things as well. We can only make 6 discovery signings.

That doesn't affect homegrown players though. So I expect guys like Stinson, Cordon, etc. to be released for a new crop of Academy players/guinea pigs.

[Pookie]

Why are folks concentrating on buy-outs?

The market value for Hassli was apparently a 1st round pick just a few months ago. JDG went for Weideman. Surely, Torsten could help a team on the verge of gaining a playoff spot or going deeper?

I really don't want to see any of the DPs back but I don't think it would be wise to simply buy them out. Move them for an asset, even if just a draft pick. We don't have a 1st round pick in 2014 and surely we could recover some of that depth via trade.

I say that with all due respect to their talent, I just don't think we need older, more injury likely players on our roster next season. We don't have the depth to overcome the inevitable.

[jloome]

Why are folks concentrating on buy-outs?

The market value for Hassli was apparently a 1st round pick just a few months ago. JDG went for Weideman. Surely, Torsten could help a team on the verge of gaining a playoff spot or going deeper?

I really don't want to see any of the DPs back but I don't think it would be wise to simply buy them out. Move them for an asset, even if just a draft pick. We don't have a 1st round pick in 2014 and surely we could recover some of that depth via trade.

I say that with all due respect to their talent, I just don't think we need older, more injury likely players on our roster next season. We don't have the depth to overcome the inevitable.

Their contracts are with the league. So they keep the money. Who's going to pick up Torsten Frings at $2.4M a season? No one. Hassli's out of contract. The only guy who's worth the money he's making is Koevermans, and even then he's out half the year injured.

We're not going to get a sack of hammers for them, let a lone a draft pick.

[Alonso]

If I remember correctly Torsten, Danny and Hassli all got injured on turf.

What if we keep these guys off the turf next year or at least two of the three to prevent this into the future? Vancouver, Seattle and Portland are the only teams that play on turf now right???

Also... perhaps with Hassli playing mostly on our grass, he might last the whole year... wishful thinking I know...

[ensco]

Who in their right mind trades for DPs, except TFC?

I think you could move Koevs for a return after 10 games, if his strike rate is there. Frings is at best an average MF now - so it's a JDG type deal only in his case. Hassli was never worth a first round pick, and still wouldn't be even if he was signed.

Only 34 of the 57 DP slots were even used in 2012.

[Pookie]

Who in their right mind trades for DPs, except TFC?

I think you could move Koevs for a return after 10 games, if his strike rate is there. Frings is at best an average MF now - so it's a JDG type deal only in his case. Hassli was never worth a first round pick, and still wouldn't be even if he was signed.

Only 34 of the 57 DP slots were even used in 2012.

Granted, the trade was a bonehead move but there were a few trades this year involving assets coming back for a DP.

Sharlie Joseph went for a player, a 2nd round pick and allocation money. Angel went for a draft pick (albeit a late one). JDG went for Weideman.

TFC would obviously need to eat some (or all) of the salary but there are teams out that that are willing to offer assets. Not every team mind you but to immediately throw out the player on a buy out, to me at least, would be the last resort. After all, that's why Kijiji is so popular. People shop their un-usable wears before tossing them in the dump.

[Yohan]

If I remember correctly Torsten, Danny and Hassli all got injured on turf.

What if we keep these guys off the turf next year or at least two of the three to prevent this into the future? Vancouver, Seattle and Portland are the only teams that play on turf now right???

Also... perhaps with Hassli playing mostly on our grass, he might last the whole year... wishful thinking I know...

Thierry Henry absolutely refuses to play on turf. He's also been mostly healthy this year for once since joing the Shite Bulls

Van, Portland, Seattle, New England, Mtl occassionally play on turf

[Yohan]

Granted, the trade was a bonehead move but there were a few trades this year involving assets coming back for a DP.

Sharlie Joseph went for a player, a 2nd round pick and allocation money. Angel went for a draft pick (albeit a late one). JDG went for Weideman.

TFC would obviously need to eat some (or all) of the salary but there are teams out that that are willing to offer assets. Not every team mind you but to immediately throw out the player on a buy out, to me at least, would be the last resort. After all, that's why Kijiji is so popular. People shop their un-usable wears before tossing them in the dump.

Freddy Ljungberg and Alvaro Fernandez to Chicago

[ensco]

OK I'll rephrase:

There is no football trade available for any of these guys (ie one where we free up cap space).

[spe18]

And also, as a friendly reminder; according to the rule book, a team may by out one guaranteed contract in the off season

(D) BUYOUT OF GUARANTEED CONTRACT


Teams may have the ability to buyout one guaranteed player as follows:

• A Team may buy out one (1) guaranteed player (including a DP’s) contract during the off-season and free up the corresponding budget space. Such a buyout is at the particular MLS Team’s own expense.
  
  
  
• A Team may not free up budget space with a buyout of a player’s salary budget charge during the season. Such a buyout will be conducted by the League and count on a Club’s budget in a manner consistent with current MLS guidelines.
  

[Ajax TFC]

If we could get rid of anyone we wanted, I would only keep Koevermans. He's one of the best strikers in the league, so he's worth the risk coming back from injury. I like Frings, but I don't think he has enough left to offer to make him worth the cap hit. Eckersley and O'dea are good, but not nearly good enough to justify a cap hit that will seriously limit the depth quality

Sharlie Joseph went for a player, a 2nd round pick and allocation money. Angel went for a draft pick (albeit a late one).

Both players were traded to the only team comparable to us in shittyness

JDG went for Weideman.

But they only took him because TFC would pay his salary and because they had the extra cap space, so it didn't at all hurt them to add him to their team.
That being said I think Eckersley and O'Dea would be the easiest to get rid of. If there's a team that has their front line and midfield in order at the beginning of the season with money to spare, they might be willing to splash out on someone to solidify their back line. Koevermans would be the easier of the DPs to move although he's also the one that I would want to keep on because he brings more than just leadership.

Of course there's always the chance that Chivas would take them and give us something good in return.

[Auzzy]

I wonder if some of these guys also have no-trade clauses.

[Soccerpro]

None of the above.

Hassli has not impressed, there's a reason Vancouver let him go. Frings is too old/slow to play in this league, especially as a DP. Eckersley and O'Dea are MLS-level talents (at their natural positions) but are vastly overpaid. Koevermans won't be ready until a few months into the season, and who knows how he'll play after the injury.

Of course finding replacements for all these players is probably not feasible so Ecks/O'Dea will stay. I'm hoping Frings helps us out and retires. Hassli needs to be let go, but I think Mariner will keep him around as cover until Koevermans gets back.

To field a competitive team we really need cut down to one DP (or ideally none) because of the max cap hits of Ecks and O'Dea. Use the cap space to sign a CB to pair with O'Dea or just commit to Henry at that spot (unlikely Mariner would do that). Now that I think about it there are holes all over the roster.

We need a new midfield around Silva, and new strikers. Hopefully the draft will help out here and get us a player on the level of Mattocks or Wenger. Eriq Zavaleta looks good, and he's GA too.

Kocic
Ecks - Henry - O'Dea - Morgan
Lambe - DM - Silva - LM
Draft pick - F

Oldest player in that lineup is Kocic at 27. This can be a decent young group that can grow together. Since we're stuck with Mariner I wish him good luck with finding some overlooked players with upside. We need to start building some continuity and the first step is to cut loose the players who aren't part of the future.

This x 1000000. No one can defend any of these players at these prices.

[Pookie]

This x 1000000. No one can defend any of these players at these prices.

"at these prices" is the key phrase there.

There is more than reasonable doubt to suggest that Eckersley counts just $210k against the cap due to the ongoing question as to base vs guaranteed compensation being used in the calculation.

Secondly, TFC has received quite a bit of allocation money and cap hits of designated players can be bought down using that tool.

In a league that makes allocation money available on a whim, and a team like LA can flaunt the cap, I don't know why we try to pretend this is a hard cap like the NHL.

We are debating this issue without all the variables being known. A better question is whether these five should be our highest paid.