I think it is unfair to compare Terry goal production with Silva or Johnson, but the sad truth is that Mariner system 'rewards' mediocrity + effort. I guess that 2 runner-ups were Hall and Maund, LOL. And I actually like Terry, but in the system where his abilities and good work rate are used rationally.
Originally Posted by MKR
I agree. Don't like all the shating being done around here on Dunfield. I disagree that he's better then DeGuzman, that's clearly not the case.
He is a solid off the bench veteran player and has come through for us in some big unexpected moments.
I think he should get props for the heart that he shows and plays with. That's an intangible that every team needs, and we get that from him at a good price. Hopefully he's with us again next year.
Fuck me, that Geisha episode was some disturbing shit...
Wow, that's a pretty fucking stupid comeback from a guy who just posted generically that people should stop hating on Terry Dunfield. "Hey, I didn't say any of YOU specifically, so don't get offended, yo."
If you don't have a point, don't try to make a point. If someone specifically is doing something that bothers you, call them out specifically, don't call out people generally and then try to turtle when someone calls YOU out for doing it. Stupid generalities like that start half the disputes on this board.
As for his effort, any time you end a sentence saying "well, obviously he wasn't our best player," you've pretty much validated those who criticize his ability.... which was the point.
Well deserved. IMHO he was our most consistent player this year. What he lacks in skill he makes up for in effort and his reading of the game. I hope he is still around next year, with better players around him!
This is embarrassing. He was the worst player in Winter's midfield reliant system and a huge factor in the 0-9 start. He never got better under Mariner, but rather the whole team got worse, making his hard work look really good by comparison. His lack of positional awareness, lack of speed, lack of passing ability, and poor tackling never got better, they just weren't obvious when playing a system where the midfield is bypassed and everyone is expected to kick it long.
The reasoning that Danny Koev doesn't deserve it because he didn't play enough is absurd. He had nine goals and two assists, and was directly responsible for seven of our points. MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. I don't know how you can argue that there's a player more valuable to this team than Koevermans, and the shit record after his injury proves just how valuable he was.
For Fuck's sake, the things that we give MVP awards out for are the same things that amateur teams and elementary schools give out participant ribbons for. This is an embarrassment that we've named someone who can't play football as the most valuable player on our FOOTBALL team
UOTE=Ajax TFC;1538257]This is embarrassing. He was the worst player in Winter's midfield reliant system and a huge factor in the 0-9 start. He never got better under Mariner, but rather the whole team got worse, making his hard work look really good by comparison. His lack of positional awareness, lack of speed, lack of passing ability, and poor tackling never got better, they just weren't obvious when playing a system where the midfield is bypassed and everyone is expected to kick it long.
The reasoning that Danny Koev doesn't deserve it because he didn't play enough is absurd. He had nine goals and two assists, and was directly responsible for seven of our points. MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. I don't know how you can argue that there's a player more valuable to this team than Koevermans, and the shit record after his injury proves just how valuable he was.
For Fuck's sake, the things that we give MVP awards out for are the same things that amateur teams and elementary schools give out participant ribbons for. This is an embarrassment that we've named someone who can't play football as the most valuable player on our FOOTBALL team[/QUOTE]
You might be a totally biased Dutch tosser, but I have to say....Well Said
alright. we're giving someone shit for a system that played against their strengths for 9 games of the season, discounting them for playing in a system that suited them for the other 25. if your point is correct about the whole team getting worse under him, then surely his stats would've taken a hit right? not so, they got better. i've posted the stats, and i'll post the updates when i get the chance, but last i looked.. he's our been most prolific and accurate passer. he can get the ball and move it up the field (and im not including backpasses at which point he'd still top everyone) without it being intercepted or without it being stripped from him.
im not naive, i know that goals win games, but don't you think it's shortsighted to say that his scoring goals can be directly responsible for 7 points? frankly it's a bit of a slap in the face to everyone who stopped a shot, won a tackle, intercepted a pass or or blocked a ball to preserve those goals. if you're going by the logic that someone not being there can highlight just how bad a team really is, then fuck it, give it to frei. he would've stopped more shots then kocic, he's our number 1, and he wasn't around this season. see the difference between this season and last when we had frei in net? unfair comparison without looking at the other external factors right?
some people will take the time to shit on everything this man does. he scores a winning goal against vancouver, what the fuck ever, he's still shit right? it doesn't help that he's performed better under mariner's system either. i've heard it described far too often; "mariner always plays him", "he's shit an mariner gives him the armband", "mariners favourite player", then call a spade a spade.. it's a fuckin package deal.
I agree that Dunfield gets too much grief, and I do think he's improved considerably at least in his passing. It's a problem of the team & Mariner that too much is expected of Dunfield (just like Freddy Hall, Jeremy Hall, Aaron Maund, Wiedeman, and others). All of them very nice guys, just like Dunfield. Especially as a MVP, a comparison to MVPs and key midfielders from other MLS teams would be very interesting IMO. A "box-to-box" midfielder with 0 assists in the MLS season? I also wonder about his defensive stats as far as those exist & are meaningful. I think Maund's & Dunfield defensive play are likely as much a factor in the number of goals TFC leaks as the makeshift central defense, weak right FB, and goal-tending issues.
Koevermans. No question he's more valuable when fit but he's not. That's why the award was up for debate. If he played more than half the games of the year this debate would be definitely absurd. 16 reg games.
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 10-23-2012 at 06:49 AM.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
He's being made a figurehead/scapegoat for the poor season we have had by a lot of folks.
Personally I think this is more about trying to build Dunfield up as a face of the club. He's exactly the kind of player that Toronto sports fans tend to love. All heart, max effort, ect, ect.
Who cares about the reasoning of past winners as decided by the team? Look at the shitshow that is the wall of fame. Naming Dunfield the MVP is right up there with "wall of fame".
If it's a "hard worker" award then fucking call it that.
Moreover...."rewarding" the hard worker is precisely what is wrong with soccer in this country. We don't value talent. We value heart. And it makes me fucking sick. Did Luis Silva not work hard enough this year? How about Ashtone Morgan?
I've heard the MVP debate in every sport. Should it be given to the BEST player or the MOST VALUABLE player? And I see valid arguments for both sides.
Giving it to the hardest working is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.
Now you literally want to say that "effort" (which I think every player on this team put forth this year) is the main criteria for the Most Valuable Player award.
Stop taking pictures with the players and start watching them from an objective footballing perspective.
Terry Dunfield may be a nice guy but he's an awful footballer.
Simple questions:
1. What are his strengths?
2. How do these "strengths" translate into him being worthy of the Most Valuable Player award over guys like Kocic, Silva, Morgan etc.?
3. Which of Dunfield's strengths do the players I mentioned lack?
After this season is anyone inspired to win this award?
I don't disagree with you here.
MVP should be the best player. And like everyone is saying - Koevs made the most impact in his short time here. But again, it's a team award. Who gives a fuck? If the league gave him MVP honours, then there would be trouble. But again..team award. means nothing. Everyone knows what he is capable of and where he should be starting(bench player), but you can't blame the guy for getting a starting role or a team award. That's all I'm saying. the guy got the award. Give him a pat on the back and move on.
Last edited by jabbronies; 10-23-2012 at 10:51 AM.
Again stop taking shit so personally. Seems like almost every fucking thread you are in you take offence to something. Chill the fuck out
Terry Dunfield may not be the most skilled player on the pitch, but no one can question his heart, determination, and defensive tenacity. I am confused by the derision he has recieved from so many supporters. Carl Robinson was previously voted as RPB player of the year, and he was a very similar type of player.
My personal vote would have gone to Koevermans, but if the vote was going to be based on players that remained healthy throughout the entire season, Dunfield deserves it as much as anyone else.
In any case, it was an absolutely dreadful season, so I'm not sure how much solace Dunfield will take in his accomplishment.
Koev's should be MVP. It's really irrelevant that he didn't play many games. He had the most influence over the season, and before he got injured he was a direct correlation to TFC's good form. After he got injured, TFC didn't win another game.
Dunfield was "most improved" player this season, and I'd be fine giving him an award for that. But really, Koev's proved his value in a handful of games, and deserves to be named our best player. If Dunfield showed his latter season form throughout the WHOLE season, then he would be a close second to Koev's for MVP - but as it is, I'd say Koev's was TFC's best player this season.
He also gave the FO and many others the wake-up call they needed by saying what needed to be said in pubic. Many disagree with his comments, however, our shit stunk a little less after that interview.
If we didn't have Terry Dunfield, I doubt our record would be any different. I'd even argue it might be better if it wasn't for all those god damn spot kicks he gives (cause he's loving getting beat so he pulls the ol Terry Tug) and then turns around with some terrible spot kicks himself.
No real value other than willingness to run for 90 and I'm sure we can dig up someone from Bermuda who can do that. I mean, you give the guy every minute possible on a team devoid of talent, ideas or desire...you're bound to luck into some success by being the guy in the middle of the pitch. That's all it fuckin was.
Without Danny K, we'd probably have 2 wins or less.
Actual value.
Without Milos, we'd probably have given up 20 more goals with a keeper like Freddy.
Actual value.
Without Maund, we'd actually not be playing shorthanded with an invisible player.
Negative value.
But lets boast about Dunfield, because the media is taking directive to shove him down our throats.
I don't see the media shoving Terry Dunfield "down our throats".
Interesting fact, this is the second time in a few years Terry has won player of the year for his club.
I realize that Terry Dunfield is not a a top MLS player (obvious) and if we were a good team he certainly shouldn't be starting. I would have him off the bench however, I don't really get the complete hate on for him. He works hard when he's on the pitch and thats all I can ask for. Its not his fault the club has no depth and he shouldn't be starting. Classic Toronto to pick someone to become the whipping boy of the team no matter the sport. I'm more upset that management has put a group of players in place where Terry Dunfield becomes an imnportant piece in the team.
I have nothing against Dunfield at all. He's not fantastic by any means, but he's definitely as good as most "Average" MLS midfielders. And that's what he is - lets not get carried away with anything else. If he was playing with better midfielders, Dunfield would be fine in most MLS teams. But playing with Maund (who really isn't very good by any standard) and Silva (who is still a really young guy, and inconsistent due to his age) then Dunfield struggles to fill out a whole central midfield.
But to say that Dunfield has the "most influence" and "most value" over the course of this season would be stretching things a little. Agreed with ryan, Koev's and Kocic have both had more influence, even if they have played less time than Dunfield. The MVP should show the overall value to the team's performance over the season - and while Koev's was firing on all cylindars mid season, TFC picked up nearly ALL their points. Without that little peak this season, TFC wouldn't have any points at all.
Pay more attention to Jason DeVos. Can't watch 30 minutes of TFC football without him telling us how great he is.
But what it boils down to is as you said, "I would have him off the bench"...and that's our MVP?
Again, I question the value compared to the value offered by other reds.
exactly. not only that, but his effort does actually improve the team. He's fine at what he does and for what his role is supposed to be. And to hear people talk about him like he's Nick Garcia or how he is the one responsible for the losses. Give me a freaking break. Terry Dunfield is the least of this team's problems.
Question: How many games do we have a media photo of Terry tugging a player who's beaten him, to the ground?
Answer: All of them.
MVP! MVP!
My thoughts exactly. The whole team sucked.
If anything the fans deserve the award for putting up with this shit show for the past 6 years.
Exactly what the team should have done actually. Hung an MVP banner in the south end and called it a season.
The epitome of a good player in Toronto, a hack that try's hard.
I invite you to prove that Torsten Frings had better season than Terry Dunfield
I'm all for constructive criticism, but the level of venom that goes into essentially a victimization of a player (and there is at least one every year) is frankly shocking. taking it so personally like Dunfield raped and murdered your sister or something
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Overdramatize much? I don't believe anybody has even said they hate Dunfield. I don't see anyone directing much venom at Dunfield. A bunch of people have said he's a nice guy & tries hard. Maybe upset with his play; or especially that he gets the MVP. But certainly nothing in the ballpark of the massive exaggeration that you brought at the end of your post.
EDIT And why do you bring up Frings? Nobody in the whole thread has suggested that Frings should be MVP. I think most people agree what's up with Frings: relatively old & slow; struggled with a couple of injuries including the chronic hip thing which all affected his play a great deal; passes well & good vision especially when fit; sidelined even more under Mariner's "system."
Last edited by Auzzy; 10-23-2012 at 04:25 PM.
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