New Renewing/Not renewing poll

[bones]

I voted yes. I think the price increase over the years was a bit much and I gladly take this reduction. I'm hoping they make major changes in FO/mgmt but I somehow doubt it will get all the people that need to be changed. Let's just hope it's enough to make progress this year.

One thing that will change this year is my choice on tickets I can't use. I own a pair of seats and most of the time my daughter can't make it and there's even the odd time where I can't make a game. This year those tickets will go unused period. I will not be offering them to fellow RPB as there are so many here that were very adamant about how it's so easy to find cheaper tickets on the day of the game. Sorry to those, but you're not getting my seats discounted any more.

Looking at the poll it seems many people are happy with the price reset. I'm choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt about leadership changes for this year as it seems many are too.

[Alonso]

The beauty of the renewal process (for them) is that there is no transparency, and nothing says they have to release all the un-renewed tickets back to the relocation event. I can't see them allowing all the cheaper tickets for relocation, and create the potential for a further massive revenue drop when people downgrade their tickets en mass.

For them, the best thing to do would be release enough cheap tickets at relocation to avoid raising suspicion and then re-sell the rest to potential new STH's at full price.

This is very possible, and I suspect is the case.

And why I'm not renewing counting on a relocation.

I've been to every relocation event since I got seasons and not once was there a seat in a supporters section available. I'm not falling for this any more.

[nfitz]

They made the cheapest seats the most attractive discount not to reward the supporters section people but to avoid giving people with more expensive seats too many options to downgrade.

I'm sorry...but anybody who thinks that the fo slashed supporters seats prices out of the goodness of their hearts and to reward the supporters is kidding themselves.

I agree - though I think wanting to keep supporters strong may be a factor. Not so much because they love us, but because it helps them sell to sponsors. What BMO alone is paying has almost tripled since 2007 - and the increase is far larger that the $ that this discount will cost them.

[v00d00daddy]

I agree - though I think wanting to keep supporters strong may be a factor. Not so much because they love us, but because it helps them sell to sponsors. What BMO alone is paying has almost tripled since 2007 - and the increase is far larger that the $ that this discount will cost them

[/QUOTE]

Oh I think you're right that they want to be able to continue to market the supporters.

I just find it strange that people are reaping the rewards of a price decrease and renewing but failing to realise that it was those who decided not to renew after 2010 and 2011 that won the price drop.

Wouldn't it have been great to get every ssh to forgoe renewing? Imagine their reaction then?

Or at the very least renew on the very last day.

Instead people are getting credit cards to get free jerseys or renewing before the worst season in the last 6 years is even over.

No wonder they raised ticket prices on us every year.

[nfitz]

I've been to every relocation event since I got seasons and not once was there a seat in a supporters section available. I'm not falling for this any more.

Last year was only my second relocation, and I picked up a ticket in 116. I seem to recall there being pairs in 118, and lots in 119 and 127 (though perhaps that's not what you mean by supporters).

Though those that got their first seasons last year in light-blue, might be challenged to move to anything other than medium-grey. But who knows - based on the poll above, there's going to be a lot of availability. My gut feel is that they'll sell similar or better this year than last. But I'm often wrong.

[bones]

This is very possible, and I suspect is the case.

And why I'm not renewing counting on a relocation.

I've been to every relocation event since I got seasons and not once was there a seat in a supporters section available. I'm not falling for this any more.

Hmmm, originally I was going to say that I don't blame you because I got screwed for years doing this same thing in Raptors land. I had to cancel my tickets and then wait 2 months for a new sales rep to call me all bright eyed and bushy tailed wondering why I didn't renew. After telling him that I needed to move seats and I'm not falling for that seat relocation empty promise again he found me seats where I wanted to be. HOWEVER, in this case, if you don't get them this year and wait, you may not get the discount and that is a big difference.

BUT, the original Hmmmm above was because of a more interesting thought. How are ML$E going to deal with 2 different sets of pricing scales going forward? I pay $190 for my seat and someone who buys their season beside me pays $344 because they're new, then after we start to improve over the years, ML$E wants to do a price increase right? Will they "reward they're most loyal customers" by increasing their seats to match the others or "piss off the newer customers" by doing an even increase to everyone or ??? In any case, how the hell do you not piss 1 group off or the other or both? Even if they wait a number of years to do an increase, your "most loyal customers who built this Club..." will be paying significantly less than people who maybe have paid for a year or 2 or 3 of seasons who are no longer "new". That's in interesting predicament.

[Belfast_Boy]

Oh I think you're right that they want to be able to continue to market the supporters.

I just find it strange that people are reaping the rewards of a price decrease and renewing but failing to realise that it was those who decided not to renew after 2010 and 2011 that won the price drop.

Wouldn't it have been great to get every ssh to forgoe renewing? Imagine their reaction then?

Or at the very least renew on the very last day.

Instead people are getting credit cards to get free jerseys or renewing before the worst season in the last 6 years is even over.

No wonder they raised ticket prices on us every year.[/QUOTE]



I don't think it's that simple.

yes people cancelling had something to do with it. but that isn't the only factor.

this past season was a disaster. MLSE had to know that renewals would be in the shitter.

the structure of the organization was the problem and they heard that from multiple directions. if they are going to fix the structure it won't happen overnight. What they could do quickly (probably took weeks to arrange) is drop prices.

This years first day renewals have been the best to date. holding off will have no effect. they are losing a tonne of cash but they have managed to dodge a bullet.

[Joe Kool]

Hmmm, originally I was going to say that I don't blame you because I got screwed for years doing this same thing in Raptors land. I had to cancel my tickets and then wait 2 months for a new sales rep to call me all bright eyed and bushy tailed wondering why I didn't renew. After telling him that I needed to move seats and I'm not falling for that seat relocation empty promise again he found me seats where I wanted to be. HOWEVER, in this case, if you don't get them this year and wait, you may not get the discount and that is a big difference.

BUT, the original Hmmmm above was because of a more interesting thought. How are ML$E going to deal with 2 different sets of pricing scales going forward? I pay $190 for my seat and someone who buys their season beside me pays $344 because they're new, then after we start to improve over the years, ML$E wants to do a price increase right? Will they "reward they're most loyal customers" by increasing their seats to match the others or "piss off the newer customers" by doing an even increase to everyone or ??? In any case, how the hell do you not piss 1 group off or the other or both? Even if they wait a number of years to do an increase, your "most loyal customers who built this Club..." will be paying significantly less than people who maybe have paid for a year or 2 or 3 of seasons who are no longer "new". That's in interesting predicament.

It will be interesting to see how they handle the pricing going forward for sure. Before this two-tier pricing they have put into place now I always felt that they could keep a certain price available for new STH's but for the rest of us that have had seasons for awhile they should give a percentage reduction, up to a maximum percentage off, based on how many years you have maintained seasons. New STH's get 30% discount....people who reach the 3 year mark get 35%...6 years then 40%. Just throwing numbers out there so nobody knit pick what I put but just giving an example of the idea. It gives long time season ticket holders a valid reward I think for years of support. I don't think the year one pricing scheme will last more than one season unless we are in the basement again this time next year.

[narduch]

I pay $190 for my seat and someone who buys their season beside me pays $344 because they're new, then after we start to improve over the years, ML$E wants to do a price increase right? Will they "reward they're most loyal customers" by increasing their seats to match the others or "piss off the newer customers" by doing an even increase to everyone or ??? In any case, how the hell do you not piss 1 group off or the other or both? Even if they wait a number of years to do an increase, your "most loyal customers who built this Club..." will be paying significantly less than people who maybe have paid for a year or 2 or 3 of seasons who are no longer "new". That's in interesting predicament.

This is a great point.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

One thing is certain, if 1 year for now they think they can go back to $361 per seat in the south end again they are insane.

[Belfast_Boy]

if you renew and relocate, do we get the new price?

[Alonso]

if you renew and relocate, do we get the new price?

Yes.

And if you were previously a SSH but aren't now, you get the new price as well.

[brad]

Last year was only my second relocation, and I picked up a ticket in 116. I seem to recall there being pairs in 118, and lots in 119 and 127 (though perhaps that's not what you mean by supporters).

127 had a lot of tickets one year as well.

[69Chevy396]

With the decrease in gate revenue do any of you trully believe MLSE makes the necessary investments in the team? Does 2007 prices = 2007 player contracts? Now, when the team flounders management screams lower revenue. You can bet on this.

[Yohan]

With the decrease in gate revenue do any of you trully believe MLSE makes the necessary investments in the team? Does 2007 prices = 2007 player contracts? Now, when the team flounders management screams lower revenue. You can bet on this.

I don't have a problem with not having DPs (pretty much moot point for next year), because I find overemphasis on DPs tend to distract teams from building a competitive team from ground up. (see RSL, SKC)

[Dave67]

if you renew and relocate, do we get the new price?

Yes, and if you previously cancelled seasons seats (2011 for sure, 2010 not sure) you get the new price if you come back.

[Belfast_Boy]

Yes.

And if you were previously a SSH but aren't now, you get the new price as well.

Yes, and if you previously cancelled seasons seats (2011 for sure, 2010 not sure) you get the new price if you come back.

that's frigging excellent! now I just need two or three in 111 or 112. yeah I know...... not a hope.

[Pookie]

Hmmm, originally I was going to say that I don't blame you because I got screwed for years doing this same thing in Raptors land. I had to cancel my tickets and then wait 2 months for a new sales rep to call me all bright eyed and bushy tailed wondering why I didn't renew. After telling him that I needed to move seats and I'm not falling for that seat relocation empty promise again he found me seats where I wanted to be. HOWEVER, in this case, if you don't get them this year and wait, you may not get the discount and that is a big difference.

BUT, the original Hmmmm above was because of a more interesting thought. How are ML$E going to deal with 2 different sets of pricing scales going forward? I pay $190 for my seat and someone who buys their season beside me pays $344 because they're new, then after we start to improve over the years, ML$E wants to do a price increase right? Will they "reward they're most loyal customers" by increasing their seats to match the others or "piss off the newer customers" by doing an even increase to everyone or ??? In any case, how the hell do you not piss 1 group off or the other or both? Even if they wait a number of years to do an increase, your "most loyal customers who built this Club..." will be paying significantly less than people who maybe have paid for a year or 2 or 3 of seasons who are no longer "new". That's in interesting predicament.

I wouldn't over think it.

If I am a new seat holder this year, I may pay more than you did for your renewal. But next year, I will be paying the same renewal price that you are.

Going forward, both prices will increase.

[jazzy]

This is very possible, and I suspect is the case.

And why I'm not renewing counting on a relocation.

I've been to every relocation event since I got seasons and not once was there a seat in a supporters section available. I'm not falling for this any more.

not sure about that....we moved 2 years ago and there were quite a few in light greys and a few in yellow..AND we were the only people wanting them,..lol....and I'd be very surprised if this year there weren't more available......wife and I love our seats.....cheap and close to the action ...if we didn't we'd simply go every year.........I'm sure in 111 where we are there will be some, but of course it all comes down to timing

[Suds]

I had already decided to renew before the announced price drop.

[brad]

not sure about that....we moved 2 years ago and there were quite a few in light greys and a few in yellow..AND we were the only people wanting them,..lol....and I'd be very surprised if this year there weren't more available......wife and I love our seats.....cheap and close to the action ...if we didn't we'd simply go every year.........I'm sure in 111 where we are there will be some, but of course it all comes down to timing

I'm not so sure about that.

The availability of the cheaper tickets is going to depend on the sales & expected demand of the more expensive ones. If the renewals on the expensive tickets are down, and they expect demand for the more expensive seats, do you think they will open a up a large amount for cheaper seats for people to move into? I certainly don't. I expect they would open up enough so that some folks can move, and to alleviate any suspicions people might have about the relocation, and then sell the rest to new STH's at full price.

The question is - why would MLSE let people that have already committed to expensive seats move to the cheap seats wholesale?

[TOBOR !]

Here's a question for you : what do you suppose SSH renewal prices will be next year ? Year 2 prices (with the exception of those who are buying in for the first time now) ? Or perhaps something closer to regular/current prices ?

Obviously it's too soon to tell, as no doubt it'll be based on team performance, but I wonder what MLSE's overall strategy is here. Do they drop the price for one season to keep the renewal numbers up with the intention of returning them to where they would normally be ASAP ? Most likely. And in which case they'd need performance on the pitch to be able to justify it.

In this regard it will benefit them to get rid of Mariner - or at least get him off the bench.

[Suds]

^^
Prices will eventually go up regardless of performance. Costs will rise as TFC will need to raise additional revenue to cover the costs. The question is at what rate and percentage they will go up.

[Pookie]

^^
Prices will eventually go up regardless of performance. Costs will rise as TFC will need to raise additional revenue to cover the costs. The question is at what rate and percentage they will go up.

I feel as though there is a fundamental shift in their pricing strategy. In the past, the market was defined as the Toronto sports market.

Now, with the exposure that we have given to ticket prices across the league and the outcry that followed decreases in Montreal and Vancouver it is clear that they do not operate in a vacuum. Add the revenue share element to this and there is no reason for the league to expect Toronto to subsidize its operations. For that reason, I feel that TFC will tend to price itself in the middle of the pack relative to the league.

Don't overlook the dynamic ticket pricing angle to this either, for single game ticket buyers. They can still profit huge from Beckham games, playoff implication games and other stars. I think that is the right direction to go.

[prizby]

Dynamic pricing is a great way to piss off your customers.

how does it piss of your customers...its PROVEN to work, and work effectively

[prizby]

Dynamic pricing is a natural evolution of Tom's "market demand" commentary when it comes to TFC, so no big surprise.

Thing is dynamic pricing doesn't factor in street scalper pricing...

actually it does...but in the perspective of the secondary markets like a stub hub or other resell sites

It just occurred to me that this ticket reduction for renewals and not single game tickets, using this dynamic pricing was probably mostly (or at least in part) an attempt to reward and get the scalpers to all renew there tickets since they will be picking up $10 tickets with a $20 face value for example.

That can be very tempting for a scalper. Guarantees a larger profit on a sold ticket at face value. Helps muddy the water on the value of a ticket for the average Joe.

sadly, one of the first things I thought of...i saw scalpers getting tickets on Saturday from the cops by the GO station

[brad]

I think it's impossible to guess what future increases will be. I think they learned their lesson about cranking prices to high for a terrible product and will favor smaller increases if we continue to be bad. If we some how get good, I think all bets are off. If the team is playing well, and demand seems to be back, I'd expect more dramatic price hikes.

One thing I do suspect they will do is keep the supporters ends artificially low, regardless. They do not make much money directly from those ticket sales compared to the rest of the stadium so an increase won't net them much more money. By jacking those tickets up, they alienate the folks that make the atmosphere they sell and endanger that. I'm sure they are also not blind to the fact that if anyone is going to mobilize and raise a stink/protest/create negative publicity around future price hikes, it's going to likely be the folks in south end.

Does anyone think that prices would have been a hot button issue for supporters groups if they had jacked prices up massively across the stadium but kept the supporters sections artificially cheap? I certainly don't. Past experience has shown me that most folks in the supporters groups don't really care all that much about what happens outside the supporters sections.

[DangerRed]

actually it does...but in the perspective of the secondary markets like a stub hub or other resell sites

So then it doesn't - at all. You can't negotiate with stubhub. That's why I specifically called out street scalpers. But whatevs, thanks for pitching in!

[prizby]

So then it doesn't - at all. You can't negotiate with stubhub. That's why I specifically called out street scalpers. But whatevs, thanks for pitching in!

secodary resell sites still fit under 'scalpers' because they tickets are not sold at face value; and while you may not negotiate, the people selling tickets will adjust their prices if they need to

and scalpers do use them to sell tickets, they don't just sit with their tickets until gameday

[Pookie]

Dynamic pricing is a "fairer" way to administer the "Premium Game" pricing that we see in virtually every sport market. As demand for a game increases, the price of a single ticket also increases. As demand for a game drops, so too does the price but not to levels lower than STH prices.

This creates value for the season ticket holder in that they are assured, barring a "red flag deal" type promotion, of the lowest price on a seat. It also increases their chances to resell a ticket on the secondary market as their "cost" will be below the going face value of a new ticket.

It may not sound fair for the single game buyer but we see elements of this already. If you were a single game buyer and want to see Beckham, your ticket cost you more. If you want to see the Puerto Rico Islanders, your ticket cost you less. The home opener costs more than a midseason game against Chivas.

I'm not necessarily a fan of premium game/dynamic pricing but it is here to stay and if it is, it makes sense for the team to maximize its revenue off of those that are looking for an "event" (ie. those Arsenal fans looking to see Henry) vs those that are in it for the long haul.

[narduch]

how does it piss of your customers...its PROVEN to work, and work effectively

Customers get pissed when they discover others have paid less for a ticket than they paid.