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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    That every team has few bargain salary players? Yep. Tfc has a few of them too
    well that, and as a whole we are crap at getting value for our $.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    well that, and as a whole we are crap at getting value for our $.
    Was it that obvious?!.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Rivero and Dawkins (and juninho) are both on loan. Castillo is a DP due to transfer fee
    loan or not, dp or not, their cap hit based on salary is near the bottom

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by prizby View Post
    loan or not, dp or not, their cap hit based on salary is near the bottom
    I'm pretty sure transfer fees hits cap space, unless allocation money is used
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  5. #95
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    I was somewhat bored so I calculated some statistics based on the most recent salary update. No guarantee they are right

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/8832932...ream/lightbox/

    You'll notice that if you had more players over 100k, you generally made the playoffs... if you had less players over 100k you generally didn't. If I have time I might try to do the same thing for the 2011 and 2010 seasons. Although, you know how the saying goes: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I was somewhat bored so I calculated some statistics based on the most recent salary update. No guarantee they are right

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/8832932...ream/lightbox/

    You'll notice that if you had more players over 100k, you generally made the playoffs... if you had less players over 100k you generally didn't. If I have time I might try to do the same thing for the 2011 and 2010 seasons. Although, you know how the saying goes: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
    I honestly haven't looked but it would seem logical that the ones with fewer players above 100K have to have lower-end salaries that accommodate a handful of upper end salaries.

    So they win because they have more balanced rosters.

    The issue of how they get them is something else. I smell a lot of cap cheating in this league; Montero, who was rated over a million bucks and had a tryout at one of the Spanish clubs right before seattle, came in at 150,000, or something. Victor Bernardez, and international quality defender at San Jose, at $100,000; Arne Friedrich on $175,000; Adam Johansson and Christen Wilhelmson, both Swedish internationals, the former at $175,000 and the latter on the Galaxy, which shouldn't be able to afford to sign ANYONE at this point, let alone a Swedish international FB/winger.

    Seriously, the cap in this league is a joke. Or we're that f'ing bad at signing people for bargains. But doesn't anyone else get the sense that there's a whole lot of Skalbania-style antics here? I bet every one of those Italian guys in Montreal is living for free while here.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I honestly haven't looked but it would seem logical that the ones with fewer players above 100K have to have lower-end salaries that accommodate a handful of upper end salaries.

    So they win because they have more balanced rosters.

    The issue of how they get them is something else. I smell a lot of cap cheating in this league; Montero, who was rated over a million bucks and had a tryout at one of the Spanish clubs right before seattle, came in at 150,000, or something. Victor Bernardez, and international quality defender at San Jose, at $100,000; Arne Friedrich on $175,000; Adam Johansson and Christen Wilhelmson, both Swedish internationals, the former at $175,000 and the latter on the Galaxy, which shouldn't be able to afford to sign ANYONE at this point, let alone a Swedish international FB/winger.

    Seriously, the cap in this league is a joke. Or we're that f'ing bad at signing people for bargains. But doesn't anyone else get the sense that there's a whole lot of Skalbania-style antics here? I bet every one of those Italian guys in Montreal is living for free while here.
    agreed, especially Montreal and L.A!!! ...something does'nt add up

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Seriously, the cap in this league is a joke. Or we're that f'ing bad at signing people for bargains. But doesn't anyone else get the sense that there's a whole lot of Skalbania-style antics here? I bet every one of those Italian guys in Montreal is living for free while here.
    Probably a little of each.

    They've set themselves up to be ripe for cheaters. On the high-end of the scale clubs are bagging a lot more cash than MLS let's them pay out.

    They could be utilizing loopholes as well. That's always a possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I honestly haven't looked but it would seem logical that the ones with fewer players above 100K have to have lower-end salaries that accommodate a handful of upper end salaries.
    You'd be surprised ... both LA and NY both have quite a few guys paid over 100k. The big spenders aren't as cap-tied as we might otherwise assume.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 10-08-2012 at 04:23 PM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    I'm pretty sure transfer fees hits cap space, unless allocation money is used
    Absolutely they do. You can amortize over the length of the contract though.

  10. #100
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    Great work ag futbol!

    Good chance that there's funny stuff happening with some of these low salaries on other teams. For example, Saputo has connections in Italy. Even if players aren't getting money or free housing on the side here (which is all not allowed), what happens if some money is being funnelled to their "retirement" savings in Italy? How the hell would MLS know?

    However, surely TFC is also screwing up. Signing guys like Mista. Or even JDG, at a massive salary, with injury, and then not finding a way to use him well for most of his time in Toronto. Overpaying for a RB from the UK. Getting almost nobody from South or Central America -- look at some of the great deals other teams have found from those areas. No, we get Caicedo and Aceval instead. Or pay alot for Vitti, and can't figure out how to use him. Guevara did well most of the time -- but he was already well-known in MLS -- and then we lost him when TFC signed a coach he couldn't stand. Plata we only got because he was in the draft, and because no other team was willing to blow a $500k transfer fee on him. Then we lose him due to another coaching change -- let's see if Plata comes back, I'm not holding my breath.

    I'm sure that TFC having the lowest median salary in the whole league, is not a good thing... Although they're tied with Seattle with that stat, and they're doing alight.

    Rumour has in fact been, that if TFC has done something illegal, it was not to squeeze better players in under the cap, but maybe some kickbacks, or sleazy deals with certain agents?!? Nothing proven, but there have been enough rumours.
    Last edited by Auzzy; 10-08-2012 at 05:41 PM.

  11. #101
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    Good stuff here

    One thing that is missing from this conversation though is that the MLS Players Union is very clear that it includes any agent fees in the guaranteed number. For that reason, many analysts believe it is the base number that counts against the cap.

    The agent business, in international football, can be a lucrative one... ask Philly about that.

    To that end, our $1m Backline becomes much less in light of the base number.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    Great work ag futbol!
    Thanks man. Median was interesting and it did highlight TFC’s front-end loaded roster but I think it was similarly smelly league wide. Really that (and the median salary league wide) tells us a bit of what we already know: teams have practically no depth.
    Personally, I’m not against some of the more aggressive measures teams might be taking, especially if it relates to housing. When Sanyang and Gomez were playing for TFC, they lived in Chris Cummins basement because they couldn’t possibly afford to live on their own for what they were paid. Really, the time has come for MLS to raise the minimum wage to 75k or so (at a minimum).
    Point or two of clarification:

    • I used the total guaranteed compensation figure for measuring salary
    • Player x through x is arranged in order of salary. Ie highest played player is “player 1” and so on and so forth

  13. #103
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    ^Problem for us is, it just doesn't pay to play by the rules, or get mad, you just have to play the game.

    It hasn't been about sportsmanship for a long time. Uruguayans and Scousers all love Suarez, they love the guy. Panamanian supporters do what they did outside the Canadian hotel in Panama City, and to the team bus, and they get celebrated like heroes. Panama should be tossed out of FIFA for that. But they never will be.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ^Problem for us is, it just doesn't pay to play by the rules, or get mad, you just have to play the game.

    It hasn't been about sportsmanship for a long time. Uruguayans and Scousers all love Suarez, they love the guy. Panamanian supporters do what they did outside the Canadian hotel in Panama City, and to the team bus, and they get celebrated like heroes. Panama should be tossed out of FIFA for that. But they never will be.
    Oh, I don't point it out to be moralistic; I know MLS clubs hide significant profits off the books -- just look at the Galaxy's income the first year of Beckham mania and then look at that team's jersey sales alone. So they might as well hide costs off the books as well. I'm just irritated that we don't seem to be doing it. We have basically six players paid a ton and then a bunch at the lower end. It's absurd. Buy us some depth! An apartment here, an overseas investment fund there....

  15. #105
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    Depth in the MLS is not created through salary cap

    It's created in the draft specializing in players who are listed as GA
    It's created by the Homegrown system in developing players
    It's created by bringing in players from NASL and USL Pro and players with experience of the American Soccer system.

    Yes Toronto has failed in terms of DP with De Guzman and now Hasili and Kovermans and Frings have at best been ok but they also paid 390K for Ekersley and 436K for O'Dea salaries - players who are probably at best England League One caliber. We have a history of that from Welsh, Ricketts, Martina, to Soolsma

    The reason why TFC sucks is bad management plain and simple we are the Raiders of the NFL, the Islanders of the NHL and the 90's Clippers of the NBA and I would argue probably worse than all three because at least they know something about the sport there involved in and until someone is capable of changing that and fixing it we will be worse team for many years to come.

 

 

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