PRE/IN/POST GAME THREAD-TOR vs DC- Oct. 06. 1:00PM ,TSN

[117]

This.

I am less concerned about the alleged meet me at gate 4 comment than I am about the alleged public debate over Avila's potential contribution to game .... Within earshot of Avila and the other players. If true, this is a player's coach?

Exactly this.

[Kyle_121]

I want my money back.

Someone posted on twitter that TFC should refund the 2012 season to SSH's and offer a 50% discount on 2013 tickets.

The funny thing is that MLSE could and _should_ do this and it probably wouldn't do much damage to their bottom line, but there is nobody there with enough class to actually do it.

[ForeverTFC]

I am less concerned about the alleged meet me at gate 4 comment than I am about the alleged public debate over Avila's potential contribution to game .... Within earshot of Avila and the other players. If true, this is a player's coach?

Avila was at the corner flag warming up when comment was made. He had been warming up since the second half started.

I, too, think this was a worse offense. The disrespectful nature of the comment with players in ear shot is one thing, but to see that he truly believes Avila lacks quality is indication enough that this guy has no grip on talent evaluation.

[ag futbol]

Avila was at the corner flag warming up when comment was made. He had been warming up since the second half started.

I, too, think this was a worse offense. The disrespectful nature of the comment with players in ear shot is one thing, but to see that he truly believes Avila lacks quality is indication enough that this guy has no grip on talent evaluation.

Agreed. As for the other comment, it's always un-professional but at the same time it sounds like some people here saying it was a testy exchange but made in jest.

Bottom line for me is that he should be fired for being a poor coach and evaluator of talent, the other stuff is just icing on the cake.

[TFC07]

Team	Nat	From	To	Record
				Games
Plymouth Argyle		10 December 2009	6 May 2010	28	7	6	15	25.00
Toronto FC		7 June 2012	Present	22	5	7	10	22.73

Enough said.

His record is worst with TFC than it is with Plymouth Argyle (which he got fired after the season). Worthy manager to come back for next season indeed.

[denime]

Just thought I'm chime in on this one.

I was actually sitting a couple rows back from the guy who Mariner told to meet him outside at the gates. A few of the people sitting in the few rows behind the bench were chirping PM telling him he should buy some pants, play the younger Canadian kids, and yelling to the players on the bench and pitch not to listen to PM cause he doesn't know what he's talking about. I honestly didn't think anything of it after it happened. The older gentleman who Paul was referring to actually stood up and yelled back, "Which gate Paul, which gate?!" We all thought it was pretty funny at the time until it blew up on twitter.

From where I was, there was no exchange with any fans while he was walking towards the tunnel. This all happened around the time of the Avila sub. A funny aside though...after the players had made there way to the tunnel, Jimmy Brennan was walking towards the sidelines and me and a couple friends started singing "heyyyyy Jimmy Brennan, hooooo haaaa, I wanna knowwwww, how you scored that goal?!" to which he looked up at us and laughed while saying "Pfffttt I don't even know" lol

Totally classless from PM to engage a fan in that way, regardless of what chirps were sent his way! As a professional he's held to a higher standard...that standard also requires you to look the part...ie. not wearing shorts and a track jacket. But that's besides the point. I just find it funny that none of the so called "media" in the city would pursue this as a story when it's come from multiple sources. Kurt Larson, John Molinaro and even some of the goofs on Canadian Soccer News have done nothing but stay silent on his tenure as coach, while they were relentlessly criticizing Winter for the exact same futility.

In the end I know nothing will become of whatever happened. Like I said, I just found the whole thing pretty funny to be honest. And even if this is a fire-able offense, it's the easy way out. I would much rather see Mariner run out of town because he's a shitty coach, than for a few silly comments made to chirping fans during a game.

Just my 2 cents being an eye witness to the event.

I was sitting in the section as well today.

I will say, first and foremost, NOT ONE PERSON CHIRPED ANY OF THE PLAYERS. The only words being directed at the bench were at "Paul Mariner".

The most prevalent was for him to "Play the Canadian Kids" - "Play the academy kids" - "Play the young guys"

Many also told the players to not listen to him. Funny aside - At one point Paul yelled for Reggie to track back. Reggie told Paul that he would be leaving a gap open. Mariner again told him to track back. As if on cue, Reggie tracks back and the ball is played right into the hole, which mounts to a dangerous attack. I challenge anyone to sit behind the bench for one game, and then try to defend Paul Mariner. Even the DC coach at one point told him to calm himself. (Paul wanted a throw in called back, and when it wasn't, he proceeded to throw a hissy fit by spraying his water and tossing his bottle. The guy is a side show.

I was pretty close to the Bench today and only heard people yelling at Mariner when he was making a change, they were yelling to put them on the field as they would do a better job......Mariner looked back and waved them to come down, unprofessional yep....but also kind of funny.

Didn't see or hear what other's are talking about.

]I think before anything were to happen, it would have to be confirmed what exactly PM said to this person [/B]in the stands and how it was expressed, ie in a serious manner or something a little lighter, along with the lines of a cynical joke.

I had the pleasure of running into Paul before the game outside the stadium a few hours before the match, he was kind enough to sign my TFC photo I needed for my collection. In many ways while I hate to see how the Reds have performed this season, I have to commend the lads on staying positive and how they have interacted with the fans before and after each game.

CBLAKE

Instead of waiting for that lying clown to tell you another lie,read what persons that were there have to say.

If it comes from one fan I would say ,yeah let's wait for short pants Harry Potter to tell his side of story,but when you have 3 supporters telling you what happened and than few more on media like twitter and Facebook,do you really need cabin boy Tom to tell you his story.


FFS he told Larson that he did not see banners and two sticks in south stands because he was watching the game,I guess when his box to box ultimate player Dunfield was taking a corner kick in front of all those two sticks in the south he was watching where,what Kocic was doing on the other side.

Faster we get rid of him,better chance we have to have a team and club decent enough to have a shot on the playofss,otherwise we will be aming for TOP 10 in Confernce for years to come.

[JackBauer24]

These results can't be too surprising considering how half our salary cap (Koevermans, Frings, Hassli, Frei, and whatever we're paying JDG) is unplayable. Keep in mind that PM's record was something like 4-4-2 before all of our key players went down or got traded.

That being said, we should still be winning some of these games (especially this one). That miss by J. Hall was horrific.

[denime]

These results can't be too surprising considering how half our salary cap (Koevermans, Frings, Hassli, Frei, and whatever we're paying JDG) is unplayable. Keep in mind that PM's record was something like 4-4-2 before all of our key players went down or got traded.

That being said, we should still be winning some of these games (especially this one). That miss by J. Hall was horrific.

And who fault is that?

Who traded our players,who left Haslli playing even though he asked to be substituted,who made Koev running up and down when he is a target man,who called out Frings before he decided he will need arthroscopic surgery in Germany(like he can not do that here in Toronto),who is running practices were our younger players are getting constantly injured?

There is no EXCUSE than can be used to save Mariner's ass,he managed to win 3 points in last 12 games and that's the FACT,Mariner should be FIRED right after our last game vs Montreal!

[Chevy]

Watch us go down to Mexico and beat Santos by 4. With all the absurd things that have gone on this year, can anyone really say it's not possible?

[mcolvy]

Watch us go down to Mexico and beat Santos by 4. With all the absurd things that have gone on this year, can anyone really say it's not possible?

Hhahah. The man makes a good point..

[Auzzy]

Or I might win the 6/49 jackpot this week. Could happen.

[Pookie]

These results can't be too surprising considering how half our salary cap (Koevermans, Frings, Hassli, Frei, and whatever we're paying JDG) is unplayable. Keep in mind that PM's record was something like 4-4-2 before all of our key players went down or got traded.

That being said, we should still be winning some of these games (especially this one). That miss by J. Hall was horrific.

Not exactly the full picture. Teams we got points from early on were struggling as well. Looking at all the games under Mariner his team with at least 2 healthy DPs earned 1.1 points per game. Good enough for 37 points over a full season and not near enough for a playoff spot

The truth is old players get injured. Signing old players and then using the fact they get injured as an excuse, or even trading for an injured one and complaining he is injured, is as ridiculous as planning the 2013 season around the same old and oft injured guys.

[JackBauer24]

Right. I'm not exactly defending Mariner, but I just wanted to point out that we're essentially playing with ~1.5 million less cap space than what we should have. I think we should limit ourselves to 1 or 2 DPs and just focus on the 100-200k guys that should be our core starting 11.

[tiberius]

And who fault is that?

...
There is no EXCUSE than can be used to save Mariner's ass,he managed to win 3 points in last 12 games and that's the FACT,Mariner should be FIRED right after our last game vs Montreal!

Please - I am begging you - lets keep Mariner! Once Cochrane is canned (..er... I mean promoted) then Paul can go. In the mean time we need Paul to be the poster boy for firing Cochrane. I love Mariner right now - Long live Paul Mariner!! Paul Mariner represents all that is good at Toronto FC!!! Ha! Ha! Ha!

[Ajax TFC]

And who fault is that?

Who traded our players,who left Haslli playing even though he asked to be substituted,who made Koev running up and down when he is a target man,who called out Frings before he decided he will need arthroscopic surgery in Germany(like he can not do that here in Toronto),who is running practices were our younger players are getting constantly injured?

There is no EXCUSE than can be used to save Mariner's ass,he managed to win 3 points in last 12 games and that's the FACT,Mariner should be FIRED right after our last game vs Montreal!

lol yeah I remember when Winter went three in ten. No matter what reason you gave, (Frings being injured, Koevermans out of shape and form, players missing sitters and keepers making the saves of the week against us) the answer was "there's absolutely no excuse for going 0-9!" now when Mariner gives a worse record we get "but his players are injured!" and "but it's not his fault his players can't score" - even though under Winter it was 100% his fault when his players couldn't score because clearly that meant that he wasn't training them properly.

[Rene Kingsriver]

lol yeah I remember when Winter went three in ten. No matter what reason you gave, (Frings being injured, Koevermans out of shape and form, players missing sitters and keepers making the saves of the week against us) the answer was "there's absolutely no excuse for going 0-9!" now when Mariner gives a worse record we get "but his players are injured!" and "but it's not his fault his players can't score" - even though under Winter it was 100% his fault when his players couldn't score because clearly that meant that he wasn't training them properly.

I want Mariner gone but ffs will you lot just stop with the "should've kept Winter" talk, Winter should never have been head coach, neither should Mariner simple as that. I know it probably hurts that one of your heroes was such a shit coach but please get over it

[Alonso]

I am less concerned about the alleged meet me at gate 4 comment than I am about the alleged public debate over Avila's potential contribution to game .... Within earshot of Avila and the other players. If true, this is a player's coach?

Yeah it's pretty bad when the coach is publicly humiliating Avila by asking the fans within earshot of the bench "what is Avila going to do!?!"

This is unprofessional beyond belief if true. How can this possibly inspire a team? And if true, I'm worried what is being said behind closed doors. Gives credibility to DeGuzman's comments about what was said to him by Mariner about rotting in the heat on a last place team.

[Ajax TFC]

I want Mariner gone but ffs will you lot just stop with the "should've kept Winter" talk, Winter should never have been head coach, neither should Mariner simple as that. I know it probably hurts that one of your heroes was such a shit coach but please get over it

How did you get from that that I think we should have kept Winter? Please quote the sentence(s) where I say that Winter was still here

I'm not at all in the "we should have kept Winter" camp. I was actually expecting him to be gone at around 0-4/0-5. I'm pissed off at the double standard of so many people in the media who give Mariner a break because his players on his squad injured, but wouldn't even entertain that as a possibility when Winter had a horrible run. It was all about how he should be able to work with the players who are healthy.
I'm not defending Winter here, I'm saying that Mariner can't be let off the hook for a horrible record when that same excuse could have been used by his predecessor. but the same people who wouldn't listen to it then now use it to defend Mariner. COMPLETE DOUBLE STANDARD

Would you not agree that Mariner is being let off far too easily by people in the media just eating up and regurgitating every excuse he feeds them?

And for the record I have no pre-TFC attachment to Winter. His football career started before I was born and ended when I was in grade three (when I didn't even know about pro soccer)

[ForeverTFC]

If anyone cares, another comment under Ben Knight's recent article which confirms the Mariner story.

I do sit behind toronto's bench and can tell you and everybody else exactly what happenend and can get you the people that were threatened.

We were all laughing at the display in front of goal on Saturday. That shot attempt that looked like a bad pass and every other blunder became quite comical to us. We were all shouting and saying stuff like..."hay Mariner...that's the clinical finisher you were talkin'bout?!" We were razzing and laughing at each others jokes while all realizing that we are not renewing as a collective group and making fun of how bad MLSE is as a joke product.....this went on for the entire second half.

One person decided to say to Mariner..."hey Mariner...these results are just like the results you had with Plymouth Argyle eh? Can't win there, can't win here..."
Mariner did a 180 and walked over to us, looked at the guy who said it and told him he would settle things with him at the gate! This is 100% fact. We were all beside ourselves...

[jloome]

If anyone cares, another comment under Ben Knight's recent article which confirms the Mariner story.

[/I][/COLOR]

Remember this, from the Star on Sept. 11 -- just a month ago?

Paul Mariner bristles at the notion the games are now meaningless.
Sure, the Toronto FC head coach is aware of his club’s dead-last position in the standings. He knows mathematical elimination is coming, as early as Wednesday, from a playoff race they were never really in thanks to an 0-9 start — the worst in Major League Soccer history.
He gets that hopes of another dream run in CONCACAF Champions League faded two weeks with the conceding of a pair of late goals at home to Mexico’s Santos Laguna.
But Mariner insists everything from pride to contracts for next season is on the line as TFC returns to the pitch after an 11-day break for the last nine games of 2012.
“This is the final push for us,” Mariner told the Star ahead of Wednesday’s match at BMO Field against the Chicago Fire. “I want to win every single game we go into.

“There’s none of this winding down garbage. If anything, we want to ratchet it up because we don’t want to be in this position. It’s embarrassing.
“I completely understand how the fans feel. It’s up to us to put it right.”

Hell of a month. In September, he acknowledged the fans were right. So do we get a show of humility a month later and a resignation? No we get, "Marinergate".

[Fort York Redcoat]

If anyone cares, another comment under Ben Knight's recent article which confirms the Mariner story.

[/I][/COLOR]

That's a repost from our board.

[__wowza]

I'm not defending Winter here, I'm saying that Mariner can't be let off the hook for a horrible record when that same excuse could have been used by his predecessor. but the same people who wouldn't listen to it then now use it to defend Mariner. COMPLETE DOUBLE STANDARD

Would you not agree that Mariner is being let off far too easily by people in the media just eating up and regurgitating every excuse he feeds them?

i, myself, was in the winter camp. still am, and still maintain that the most entertaining games we've had were under him.

having said that, i agree.. complete double standard. many people have made the comparisons between records when koev was out but for some reason "mariner gets shit done". not too sure why that is. if the people who're saying that mariner had a hand in player selection are correct, then technically that means that winter's record can be attributed to playing a roster that he didn't have full control over; mariner would have a share of victories, as well as losses in his tenure here. if that's the case, then mariner's season here should be equated tenfold.