Agreed.Originally Posted by ryan
The Academy is more PR than anything else for this club.
Agreed.
The Academy is more PR than anything else for this club.
It is beyond my comprehension how Maund can start game in and game out and yet Stinson can barely get sniff, being played out wide. Stinson, at this time last year got a call up to the senior Canadian Nation Team and now isn't even good enough to fill an empty seat on the bench under Mariner? Williams, Cann and Emory all in at CB yet Henry can't get a minute? What is the point of having an academy if Mariner isn't going to play any young players?
Don't be surprised if next season TFC has very few Canadians, much like Vancouver and Montreal.
Whether that is a good or bad thing is up for debate. Personally I consider it a bad thing.
I'd be surprised to see Cann, Stinson, Makabuya or Cordon back next season.
Cann - maybe not because of his salary but otherwise making less he could stay on the bench. I like him and hope he stays but not at the expense of the team if it comes down to that.
Makabuya and Cordon - Haven't seen enough from them to worry about if they are there or not cause they really haven't been there at all.
Stinson - Would be a damn shame to lose him. I think he has a good upside and will pull a Cronin possibly somewhere else if let go.
Seriously, what has Maund show that he's good enough to start every game? He is such an useless player.
Only reason why he's playing because he's a Mariner player. This is one of many reasons why I want Mariner gone.
This game was a great opportunity to play younger kids to gain experience while resting your starters.
I don't think this game was necessarily the one to "play the kids." Let's be honest, before the game many of us were worried that TFC couldn't get a win against Aguila in El Salvador, especially with a few more starters out. If Aguila had played a bit better, and a kid who's been left to rust (mostly not even on the bench) had screwed up & cost the game, quite a few of us would have freaked. It's one of the few (only?) winnable games left this season.
However, in the MLS games where playoffs are done & dusted, we should be seeing more Academy grads every single game, especially on the bench. And if players like Maund and Jeremy Hall are starting & playing 90 minutes, then there are better options, e.g., Stinson and Doneil Henry. And at the very least, Mariner should have filled his bench for a long road trip to El Salvador. What if a couple of guys had caught the flu or whatever, that's very likely on a trip like this.
i wonder if DUNNY was sitting on PMs lap on the flight home.
I don't have a problem with that or PM singing Dunny's praises. It's not going to be that often.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
First post ever. The level of hate for Dunfield on the board never ceases to amaze me. Regardless of the circumstances, he's making the best of the opportunity he has been given. He works hard, puts in a lot of effort and it shows... he doesn't have a lot of natural talent, but he's delivering to the best of his limited ability. Flagrant tackles, awkward back passes and too-tight shirts aside, he's one of the few bright spots on the team this year IMO.
doesn't change the fact that he's a depth player in MLS, no matter how much he thinks he's Gerrard
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Can't disagree with that, but the animosity stems from the fact MLSE put together a team where Dunfield IS one of our best players game in and game out.
the fact that a bad player tries really hard isn't a bright spot for me. The fact is, he isn't anywhere near good enough. He can try all he wants, but a team with him as an undisputed starter will never go anywhere
hahahahahahahahaha. Yes, Pirlo, De Rossi, Gerrard and Terry Dunfield. ahahahahaahahahah
Hahahahab. Mariner the comedian. ahahahahahah.
You'll find there are people on both sides when it comes to many players. I'm not as down on the guy as some, but I would still like to TFC upgrade him for a more skilled player in that same position. If TFC could find a player with better ball distribution/passing and vision with his passion and work rate it would be a huge upgrade to our midfield.
Besides, Dunfield is the best 2-3 in the league!. Just ask Carts.
I just read that Mariner said " Hassli is a more complete CF then Ibra, Emory-Eckersley a better pairing at CB then Thiago Silva-Nesta and Dunny has the tenacity of Gerrard, the passing ability and vision of Pirlo and the finishing touch of C. Ronaldo, he may be a better all around player then Messi."
When asked if his players are so great why does he not win he said "Winter and JDG messed up their minds".
In all seriousness, i sure hope the people who rip Terry Dunfield feel or felt the same way about Paul (or Carl as his family calls him) Robinson. I've seen Robinson get a lot of love on these boards, which i find confusing since they are the same player, only one has been more productive for us.
Both are slow. Neither can pass the ball on the ground or in the air. The only good thing about them is their effort and likeability among their peers. Neither knows what to do when they score because it's such a rarity. Although Dunfield at least, has added a few goals this year, a couple have been clutch.
Last edited by Gazza; 09-26-2012 at 11:00 AM.
^ Personally I take Dunfield for what he is, do not hate him do not love him. But as others have said, he cannot be the midfield engine. I just am trully starting to laugh at Mariner, it is difficult do understand who he is in the profession he is.
who's Paul Robinson?
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
I think it's a little more complicated than that.
I agree with you, on the surface they haven't showed anything yet. On the other hand, they are both 19 and should be considered prospects. What kind of message will it send if we cut them? Is two years enough to try and break through as a pro or should they be given more time? Are they going to be replaced by new kids like Camargo and Prasher, or will the HGP spots simply stay vacant?
Personally, I think two years is a little light considering their ages. However, if we really had strong players at the academy we wanted to push through that we couldn't otherwise find room for, I might be in favor. My fear however, is that they are going to be replaced by crap NCAA guys drafted in the later rounds who will never stick around and have half the potential. If I'm holding a lottery ticket, I'd at least take the one that has the $10M dollar jackpot instead of $100.
ooops. i meant Carl...well, just proves how memorable he was to me! haha
Last edited by Gazza; 09-26-2012 at 11:06 AM.
This is the academy conundrum.
18-19 year old players generally aren't ready for MLS competition. Throw a young kid in against that LA line up last week, what kind of confidence can they develop? Add the pressures of a fan base hungry to win and it is a recipe for disaster. There is a reason that pro teams have minor leagues to let their prospects develop until they are ready.
The challenge here is that outside of the CSL, were does a player who is near the top of his peers but still too young to play, continue his development? For many reasons, the CSL is less than an idea solution to the "minor league" question.
An NCAA grad steps into the MLS in his 20s. This is Silva's first year. He's doing fine. Frei? Cronin? All did well.
In the US, the NCAA is showing signs that it is willing to work with MLS. They have relaxed eligibility rules such that partnerships with Academies are possible. A player "graduates" from Academy at 18 and goes into NCAA program where he continues his development. As MLS changes, so too will NCAA.
For us north of the border, this remains a challenge for obvious reasons.
^ But in so many ways the NCAA is just insufficient. The season is shortened, the rules don't follow FIFA standard, and the overall talent pool is weak. A lot of people would argue NCAA isn't actually making players any better, it's just putting them all in a central location where they can be found. So the argument isn't that Luis Silva is better than an academy player, it's that if you found Luis Silva when he was 18 and gave him a pro contract, he'd be a lot better than he is today for going through the NCAA.
I agree, the pyramid for young players is still somewhat broken and they lack a place to play to prepare them for the pro game. But I think there are better ways to address the problem than simply relying on the NCAA.
NCAA isn't going to make radical changes to accommodate MLS. NCAA season is still only 4 months long. Hardly enough time for development. Esp if they feel a student's academic is going to be hampered by playing sports.
Not to mention other than handful of schools, NCAA programs generally suck. Too many schools, not enough quality coaches. If you thought Weedman and Amarikwa sucks, those guys were top prospects out of NCAA programs.
MLS really needs to develop the Reserve League, and take youth academy league into its own fold. But setting up a serious reserve league cost too much money
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
What?!! He really said this? Where?
^ OK I may be bsing, but it is along the lines of some of his comments.
Last edited by trane; 09-26-2012 at 02:46 PM.
A position based on the errant assumption that thinking someone suck ass as a professional footballer is the same as "hating" him. I think he's a nice guy, and a hard worker. I also think he's a Conference-level player at best who can't compete in this league for a starting position, and any time the team is talking him up as the bright point, we're in deep, deep trouble.
But I figure the record this season makes that self-evident. Evidently not.
Good post. We need quality environments that give players meaningful games during important years.
Its a simple progression, quality youth academy (pro club's or not)---- good pro contract or quality NCAA program---- pro contract or degree and job (soccer related or not). The quicker the current efforts to tie the top 30-40 NCAA programs with the pro game the better. MLS, and the pro game will only be able to make further steps in the future with a solid foundation underneath them.
Take a look at some of the top NCAA programs and you will see the level of professionalism involved- from coaches, player support personnel, facilities, to the way they travel and operate as a "pro" group. Players are playing meaningful games (25+ a season), under pressure, in front of good crowds and media attention. Yes not all programs are like that, but the relevant top ones are and that's the only meaningful comparison with MLS team's reserve squads.
We cant just assume that all pro franchises have the quality coaches or environment in place within their youth and reserve teams because they are "pro". Its just not the case, some do it well and should be commended and others simply dont. Players often on minimum un-guaranteed deals are just not getting meaningful amount of quality games to progress, while the league and teams have not shown a commitment to this important group over the years and many attempts to fix the situation.
again we cant paint all NCAA programs (bad) and MLS reserve team (good) with the same brush. My hope is that all parties, MLS, top NCAA, 2nd tier pro etc improve and cooperate to provide aspiring and deserving players more opportunities. (and especially Canadian players)
Rongen has said that at best, Andrew Wenger is as good as he was when he went into NCAA and in some ways, it actually made him worse. And he does scout these guys and specialize in youth development.
This is good to hear and it's very important. It's really unlikely that pro soccer will ever become a major sport in the US unless it has solid NCAA support.Good post. We need quality environments that give players meaningful games during important years.
Its a simple progression, quality youth academy (pro club's or not)---- good pro contract or quality NCAA program---- pro contract or degree and job (soccer related or not). The quicker the current efforts to tie the top 30-40 NCAA programs with the pro game the better. MLS, and the pro game will only be able to make further steps in the future with a solid foundation underneath them.
Take a look at some of the top NCAA programs and you will see the level of professionalism involved- from coaches, player support personnel, facilities, to the way they travel and operate as a "pro" group. Players are playing meaningful games (25+ a season), under pressure, in front of good crowds and media attention. Yes not all programs are like that, but the relevant top ones are and that's the only meaningful comparison with MLS team's reserve squads.
We cant just assume that all pro franchises have the quality coaches or environment in place within their youth and reserve teams because they are "pro". Its just not the case, some do it well and should be commended and others simply dont. Players often on minimum un-guaranteed deals are just not getting meaningful amount of quality games to progress, while the league and teams have not shown a commitment to this important group over the years and many attempts to fix the situation.
again we cant paint all NCAA programs (bad) and MLS reserve team (good) with the same brush. My hope is that all parties, MLS, top NCAA, 2nd tier pro etc improve and cooperate to provide aspiring and deserving players more opportunities. (and especially Canadian players
My feeling about NCAA is that because America has so large of a population, some good soccer players are produced despite NCAA
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
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