Renewing or Not Renewing

[TOBOR !]

I'm happy their can be a mutual respect found in the different opinions

But c'mon manbot...

"Claiming nobility" not elitism? That's where my response came from.

Okay - I see that now after rereading my post.

You will have a certain nobility that no others can claim

The inference, though, is that this nobility will be inherent. Not something sought after and flaunted, but a by-product of having done something. No doubt there would be some who would flaunt it, but my meaning was that inside you would know you were there, and had suffered, and this ultimate success would be so much sweeter, etc, for having done so (effectively living out the bits of 'the impossible dream' where one is to 'follow the star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far', etc).

[ensco]

Obviously a personal decision. My 2 cents:

Sometimes being a smart fan, and being a true fan, is not the same thing. This caught my eye yesterday
http://www.rantsports.com/chicago-be...-the-red-zone/

True Fan does not want to hear this, but imho only Smart Fan helps his team.

[TOBOR !]

"A strong sense of loyalty to the club is obviously a reason to renew"

A strong sense of loyalty to badge is exactly why I am not renewing. MLSE has to fail immensely before we see proper change in this organization.

its simple, you buy tickets MLSE thinks you agree with them
you dont buy tickets, they know you disagree.

$$ is all they know thus $$ is our only weapon

and that's the bit after the comma

as much as a strong desire for success is to not to

spun slightly differently.

[Nodoubtguy]

Obviously a personal decision. My 2 cents:

Sometimes being a smart fan, and being a true fan, is not the same thing. This caught my eye yesterday
http://www.rantsports.com/chicago-be...-the-red-zone/

True Fan does not want to hear this, but imho only Smart Fan helps his team.

All I've ever seen from our players towards the fans is the "waving arms" lets get loud/pumped up action.

[Pookie]

Yes but all these aftermarket businesses are a better cause for your loonies? These basically legal scalpers are the future it seems.

It's your choice if you want to scramble for tickets game to game. I wouldn't say that those companies are any better to support than this spitting FO that represents the club.

The scalper angle is an interesting one. The greater the demand, the better the scalpers do. Which is a reason as to why the FO allegedly looked the other way (as it does for the Leafs) when it came to known scalpers.

When BMO was full, scalper prices ensured that you bought any ticket package (Seasons, Half Seasons, Marlies) because scarcity was an issue. If you didn't buy the packages you weren't guaranteed access and to get access you paid a premium to a scalper.

It appears to me that a scalper market is what keeps Leaf ticket prices as high as they are. Fans/Corporations can pay $10,000 for a pair of seats because they know if they don't go, they can make back their money and then some. The net cost of a pair of Leaf tickets to the owner is likely 50-75% less than the sticker price. Without that secondary ticket demand, I think you'd see people think long and hard about whether a Leaf season ticket is worth it. And as far as I'm aware, MLSE isn't necessarily making it a number one priority to ensure that you and I don't pay $150 for a pair of aftermarket purples.

When I think about buying tickets for 2013 on this secondary ticket market for TFC, I'm thinking about the net value to fan that I am buying from. That and if I buy from him, I'm not buying from the box office. In essence where they could have had 2 ticket sales... his and mine... they only get the cash from one... his. If this is what you mean by "legal scalpers" then I'm all for supporting my fellow supporter.

[Yohan]

Whitecaps seasons ticket pricing
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/co...ckets-to-catch

they offer a 12% discount if you renew between 22 Sept to 3 Oct

[Toronto_Bhoy]

I remember Tom Anselmi making a statement justifying ticket prices with the pharse "market value".

While I understand the term, I don't know what he meant by "Market" or "Value"? In the local football market, the cost to watch the best in the world is extremely reasonable and accessible. MLSE's own market research proved that the GTA had the largest coverage of football in the world, with live games shown weekly from every major league on the face of the planet. Surely if they expected individuals to pony up their hard earned cash the "market value", for footy supporters, would be compared to the reasonable cost of watching the best? The NHL, NBA and MLB are the greatest leagues in the world at their respected sports, only a fool would compare the MLS to them, no?

TFC's cost to value ratio is totally out of proportion. I don't even believe the TFC product is equal to the other MLSE sister, the Marlies. The AHL has a realistic value proposition that MLSE has recognized and done a good job of identifying and positioning.

Not that this was the last straw but I just purchased tickets to see Celtic play Barcelona in the Champions League, arguably football's best competition. Those tickets are cheaper than my TFC tickets to see the mighty Chicago Fire on Wednesday evening.

No more money from me.

Sorry Tom, I will not be renewing next season.

[ensco]

All I've ever seen from our players towards the fans is the "waving arms" lets get loud/pumped up action.

II wasn't really speaking to the specifics of that example (although I vividly recall some chants from the good ol days from the south end that seemed totally obliviously to game situation! but like I say, not my point).

True Fan who renews no matter what is doing the team no favours. I say that as someone who may renew.

[narduch]

Yes but all these aftermarket businesses are a better cause for your loonies? These basically legal scalpers are the future it seems.

Legal scalpers like the Stub Hub type sites are one thing.

That does't include season ticket holders trying to sell tickets themselves.

People should go to Craigslist or Kijiji and do a search for 'Toronto FC'. That will give you a good idea of the value of Toronto FC season tickets.

[TFC Cityboy]

I am in it for the long haul and while I have fallen out of love with the club to an extent, my almost 40 years of supporting Manchester City teaches me that when the good days come they are so so sweet to those who stand by their shitty team in bad times. Anyone who witnessed me at BMO that day in May 2011 when City ended 35 years of futility will attest to what it meant to me.

I recognise that we have owners that do not have a clue how to run a football club. I have missed more games in 2012 than in the previous 5 years combined as I have prioritised my kids' games and holidays over TFC but I love the friendships and cameraderie we have in 115 and would miss that if I no longer belonged in there.

Yes I feel abused and taken for granted at times by the club, but my football club is a huge part of who I am and you will take me out of 115 in a pine box.

[turnbr]

I'm going to be having a long chat on wednesday with my co holder and number 2 on the list season ticket holder about whether after 6 years... 4 in 123, 1 in 122 and 1 in the north end... do the math... we renew. I'm thinking he's not going for it. I dont blame him. I just want a drinking buddy again :-( I dont see the point. I hated Winter but MAriner is just the opposite of football. He was a shite player and i loved Scotland pumping his England team in the 70s. And Ipswich despite their success were a rubbish bunch of cretins. I cant pay good money to watch a goalie hoof the ball to no-one for 90 mins. I dont see anything changing in the team direction or the backroom direction. Its a shiitshow and i can't believe that its exactly 6 months ago that 47000 of us were enjoying a 2-0 lead at the skydome and 6 months later we are at the absolute clusterfuck we are at now and still going down. Utterly depressing and a colossal waste of money. what is the fucking point.

+ 1 !!!
except for that bit about your season's tickets and your sections.
and except that part about Scotland pumping the Brits.
or the bit about Ipswich cretins.
Other than that, I agree with you 100% ;-)

I have had seasons seats for 3 years now and was 1 of the 47,000.
With the birth of our first baby, I will not be renewing. I'd rather use the money to buy my lad a good kit and a ball.

[Pookie]

Whitecaps seasons ticket pricing
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/co...ckets-to-catch

they offer a 12% discount if you renew between 22 Sept to 3 Oct

So, when you throw taxes back on... a North Stand vantage point costs a TFC fan $105 more... or $210 for a pair.... than in Vancouver based on TFC's 2012 prices and VAN's 2013 offer

[Fort York Redcoat]

Obviously a personal decision. My 2 cents:

Sometimes being a smart fan, and being a true fan, is not the same thing. This caught my eye yesterday


True Fan does not want to hear this, but imho only Smart Fan helps his team.

TL; DR (IMHO)

Why? I guess I didn't want to hear it. Proving your point- but try to tell me that you didn't just insult your True Fan backhandedly be inferring he isn't Smart.

Still with the insults...

Respect, people, respect.

[ensco]

try to tell me that you didn't just insult your True Fan backhandedly be inferring he isn't Smart.

True Fan can't handle the Truth

[Ultra & Proud]

Whitecaps seasons ticket pricing
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/co...ckets-to-catch

they offer a 12% discount if you renew between 22 Sept to 3 Oct

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong but aren't their seats the same in some similar spot or even more expensive than ours? That 12% there doesn't look like a good deal but it's something.

I really think TFC needs to address the price drops by Montreal & Vancouver and match or beat those prices. Especially with what's been happening with the club and to the support this season. A roll back to year 2 or 3 pricing seems doable. They'll never roll back to year one pricing. No way. I am probably an idiot but I think that's what they are mulling over now. Seems to me that the whole renewal thing has been pretty hush hush these days whereas in the past they'd have had those PA announcements and that booth set up by gate 1 already. I am expecting something from them in this regard but I guess I should prepare myself for some level of disappointment.

[nfitz]

So, when you throw taxes back on... a North Stand vantage point costs a TFC fan $105 more... or $210 for a pair.... than in Vancouver based on TFC's 2012 prices and VAN's 2013 offer

True - but a South Stand vantage point costs a TFC fan $34 less than VAN's 2013 offer.

There's certainly differences in the pricing ... some seats are more expensive compared to BMO Field, some are less. Keep in mind that both Vancouver and Montreal advertise their pricing not including taxes, unlike Toronto pricing that includes taxes.

For those angling for price reductions ... if they do happen, it's very unlikely that that they'd be much discount to the cheaper yellow and light-grey seats. For 2012 we only saw price reductions for some of the more expensive seats, and I'd expect similar this year, if there are to be any reductions.

Best one could probably hope for is some kind of promotion like this ... pay early and get a discount. Perhaps something similar to what TFC did for the 2011 sales.

[Derko]

I just remember NYRB being the shite they were a few years ago, and now they are not a bad team, this can happen in MLS. Optimistic I suppose. I will renew.

[TOBOR !]

I just remember NYRB being the shite they were a few years ago, and now they are not a bad team, this can happen in MLS. Optimistic I suppose. I will renew.

NYRB aren't operated by MLSE.

[Fort York Redcoat]

True Fan can't handle the Truth

Now you're complicating things...Is True Fan not smart OR drunk OR...BOTH .

[trane]

You like more than one team. Mystery solved.

What does that have to do with anything? the numbers are the numbers, and Montreal in year one is a much better team then we were in the first several years, and is still a better team then us today, whether you like Montreal and I do like Montreal, because of the Italian connection, those numbers are clear. But I am a Torontonian and I am not comfortable with supporting teams from other cities, even if it is a city that I have a great affinity for. I just wish TFC was much different then it is, or that we had another MLS team to support.

The only thing that I have to say for Montreal and Vancouver, is that I expected them to be better then we were because they already has a solid base to build on, but six year in it is no longer a viable excuse.

[C.Ronaldo]

NYRB aren't operated by MLSE.

agreed, NYR has other sports clubs/ events that prove that can do this

MLSE has others sports clubs that prove they cant

simple as that.


This isnt just a TFC thing for me, its an MLSE thing.


My money will not go towards the
Leafs
Raptors
Marlies
TFC.

My money will go towards:
The Rock
Argos
CSL & NASL
vacations
even musicals & the circus

[OgtheDim]

True Fan can't handle the Truth

If I had 10 cents for every time I saw that line of reasoning on the internet, I'd be able to buy TFC and run em proper.

[Pookie]

True - but a South Stand vantage point costs a TFC fan $34 less than VAN's 2013 offer.

There's certainly differences in the pricing ... some seats are more expensive compared to BMO Field, some are less. Keep in mind that both Vancouver and Montreal advertise their pricing not including taxes, unlike Toronto pricing that includes taxes.

For those angling for price reductions ... if they do happen, it's very unlikely that that they'd be much discount to the cheaper yellow and light-grey seats. For 2012 we only saw price reductions for some of the more expensive seats, and I'd expect similar this year, if there are to be any reductions.

Best one could probably hope for is some kind of promotion like this ... pay early and get a discount. Perhaps something similar to what TFC did for the 2011 sales.

I do agree that angling for a discount in Supporters seats is not likely to happen. That said, prices there are well above the league average so there is certainly a case to be made.

That said, one thing VAN and Montreal do is offer youth/student rates. If you are a student in VAN you can sit at the back of what would be equivalent to the south end and/or north stand for $199 plus taxes. Montreal offers a similar youth rate for its family section.

All other sections though are deserving of massive roll backs in the hundreds of dollars. They are simply overpriced and the sales patterns reflect this.

[Carts]

I'm renewing... I love this team - I feel they are MY team...

I know, I know - by doing so, MLSE has no reason to change...

When I talk about TFC, I say things like "...wow, WE really suck..." or "...well WE blew a lead yet again..."

When I'm talking about others its "...damn the Leafs suck..." even though I am a big Leaf fan...

I love going to the games, and I love being at BMO... Also, my tickets are like real estate. I love the location of them, they have been mine forever, and I don't want someone else owning them... Weird I know...

If I was to not renew, I know I could make any game. I know I could get to playoff games and even an MLS Cup if that miracle occurred - but they wouldn't be my seats...

I love this club, and love having a piece of it and a 'home' at BMO...

It is what it is...

Carts...

[TOBOR !]

the poll results are intriguing. I wonder how reflective they are over the ST population overall ?
Can we extrapolate the numbers to say 60% of all holders (if polled today) would say that they aren't going to renew ?

It would also be interesting to see where the responders are located within BMO. Read : are most of the renewers in the supporter sections ?

[C.Ronaldo]

the poll results are intriguing. I wonder how reflective they are over the ST population overall ?
Can we extrapolate the numbers to say 60% of all holders (if polled today) would say that they aren't going to renew ?

It would also be interesting to see where the responders are located within BMO. Read : are most of the renewers in the supporter sections ?

is a sub poll possible? lol

im a west side greyer

[Ultra & Proud]

the poll results are intriguing. I wonder how reflective they are over the ST population overall ?
Can we extrapolate the numbers to say 60% of all holders (if polled today) would say that they aren't going to renew ?

It would also be interesting to see where the responders are located within BMO. Read : are most of the renewers in the supporter sections ?

I expect that when it actually comes time to renew a good amount of people, including some who complain a lot, will renew. Happens every year. I imagine this year will be the lowest renewing total ever but nowhere near the numbers on that poll. I bet something like 70% renew.

[backbeat]

I expect that when it actually comes time to renew a good amount of people, including some who complain a lot, will renew. Happens every year. I imagine this year will be the lowest renewing total ever but nowhere near the numbers on that poll. I bet something like 70% renew.

i wonder - there are 16,000 STH and nowhere near that many that visit any boards - i think you're right that probably 70% of the people who frequent this site may renew but i think a far smaller % of the mass will renew.

[Ultra & Proud]

i wonder - there are 16,000 STH and nowhere near that many that visit any boards - i think you're right that probably 70% of the people who frequent this site may renew but i think a far smaller % of the mass will renew.

I say about 65 to 70% total will renew. I know people, not in these groups, who said for 3 years they would never renew but each year all of them did. Of course much will depend on what TFC does and what they offer. If they do something nuts and raise the price then this is all out the window. I think they are smarter than that. I think they will do something. What and how much, we'll have to wait and see.

[bones]

I'm not renewing in till mlse is gone and I'm thinking about getting season tickets for the CFL 500$ gets you the centre field 1st row and you have 8 months to pay it off.

And they have no stadium planned for all of 2013....ummmm.....