They are? I didn't see that in the thread. THey didn't ask me!Originally Posted by narduch
Sure, why not. what the hell else am i gonna do?
Hells no! not giving these MOFO's another penny!
maybe... no , yes.... I'm sooo confused.
They are? I didn't see that in the thread. THey didn't ask me!
Back on Sep. 22:
Hmm, interesting. I think the fans are right on this one, but running a team according to an informal poll of non-renewing season ticket holders (a fairly biased sample already) is madness. If they really think Mariner is their man, I'd rather see them have the guts to fight the sunami!
Oh,yes. We don't like this rebuild, so we're going to do a new one... for as long as it suits us to do so.
?? Mariner is the goat tied to the post, waiting for the monster to come and eat him. He is the sacrifice - to save cochrane - the only problem is that nobody cares what manager or player arrives next - everyone KNOWS it is the upper management that is the problem. If Cochrane goes, there is a decent chance they will gain back some season ticket holders. Unfortunately, Anselmi is too stupid to see that it is the only way out - or he doesn't give a shit - either way, the team loses... Once they have lost the STHs this fall, they ain't comin' back. Way easier to keep a STH than it is to get them back later. This game of chicken they are playing right now is not going to end well for anyone...
You think so? I'm not so sure... it might not resonate or people might not get the significance. Although, I think we have one of the more educated fan bases in the league... I'm always surprised how much the average person I bump into knows, I would have otherwise assumed it's just dorks like us who spend all day reading these message boards.
... and the most discerning fan base in this town.
I agree that canning Cochrane will not help all STH renewals - but if the poll for this thread is any indication, TFC has a huge problem with the rewals by hard core fans, even though many/most of them are located in the least expensive seats. I can't see how it gets any easier for Anselmi and crew to entice the more casual fan who is already paying 2-4 times as much for each seat. The casual fan who owns season tickets may not analyze the problems to death like we do, but they still know this fish stinks bigtime. The overall entertainment value the last 2-3 years has been really, really bad, and only getting worse - for all fans and supporters. If you are the wealthy owner of club seats, then you will probably renew, but for most of the rest of us, the entertainment value is so poor that Anselmi better hope to hell that at least the supporters renew...
It strategically helps TFC in the long run if they can at least maintain the (hard)core supporter STH base - then there is a chance to bring the atmosphere back, once the club gets their act together. If the supporters leave in droves and the supporter sections then get severely diluted, they won't have the ingredients to easily fill the stadium again. Can you imagine them trying to build their atmosphere on the backs of the suits sitting in the prawn seats in sec 123? (no offence to 123elite)
Supporters sections are the cheap seats, but I would argue that getting rid of (promoting) Cochrane out of the TFC organization has strategic value to avoid long term annihilation of their whole Season Ticket Holder base. We pretty well all agree that Anselmi is untouchable and getting rid of Mariner won't change things in the long term.
I bet if Cochrane was turfed and a presidential structure announced, they could dramatically change the results of this current poll... This is Anselmi's one last chance to swing this around - removing Cochrane next year will be too late!
Last edited by tiberius; 10-11-2012 at 10:26 PM.
I don't think removing Cochrane will have as big an effect as some of you think.
Canning Mariner and replacing him with someone who has a track record of success in MLS would make a difference. People are staying away because of Mariner, not because of Cochrane (although Cochrane has had an effect on the quality of player that the team has).
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
the thing with Cochrane is that he is the common denominator between now and the MoJo days, and perhaps the cause for a lot of the internal problems in some people eyes.....it is for me at least this is why he needs to go.......and the few times he was pushed to the forefront, he's been a disaster (DeRo/Celtic loan, Sturgis trade, Plata loan "as of today Joao Plata is still a TFC player"......cue Plata holding Quinto's jersey).....
It's true, firing someone won't have any effect - what matters is who gets hired and what kind of control they have. Whoever gets the job running TFC has to have the ability and the money to restructure (or really, structure) the whole organization from top to bottom. There's a reason why this team is so far behind every other team in this league and it's not going to get much better with just a new coach or even a new GM with the same resources as they have now.
i'd like to think that if they bring someone new in, tom will have his hands full and earl will have known to smarten the fuck up by now. he knows he's on thin ice with us, and he knows nathan sturgis and his dero/plata comments made him look like an asshole.
i honestly believe that after this long they know they've been meddling, and they know that it got them to this point and to just back the fuck off.
Sure, we'd all like to think that. But until I see some evidence of it....
I agree that firing Cochrane does more to appease the hardcore than the rest of the general fanbase. Its similar with Beirne, he may deserve to be fired, but the fans probably don't even know who he is.
Mariner is now the management face of this team. He is an easy scapegoat (I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be, but they are all complicit).
That being said, if Cochrane was replaced by a good signing it would have a positive affect on the fans general outlook of this team.
But the way MLSE is run, I can't help but think Mariner will be gone, and everyone else survives.
I agree that Cochrane has caused a lot of problems. Canning him won't suddenly make 10,000 people renew, though, or even 300 supporters,
People have to have hope to "invest" their cash in a team. TFC potential and current customers do not have much hope at this time.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
He's part of a multi-part litmus test for me, that includes ticket prices and the head coach. They need to move on all three tests for me.
valid point. i think it's just hard for us to comprehend stupidity on their level.
while we're talking about this, let's create a new drinking game.. every time you go into a thread about the FO, take a shot everytime you see the words "i don't understand.." you'd be fucked in 5 minutes.
oh yeah I agree with that.....was just looking at it from a "change the team culture" perspective, not how to bring people back......imo that has to be done with something visible, something that fans can actually see, like a big price cut (for the corporates) and/or a top player(s) and cleaning the rot and bringing knowedgable football mind(s) (for the supporters)......
I'm one of those who had 90% decided not to renew. The FO, on field product and lack of vision (it doesn't help when you keep changing it all the time) just didn't seem worthy of my hard earned funds. So far my loyalty as a supporter has kept me from renouncing my seats all together. Now with a much rumoured big price reduction I am in a wait and see. If the the price reduction does come into effect i will probably give them one more year.
The rumour I keep seeing is price freeze, or minor reduction in some sections.
Don't think they'd want to admit it, but the Montreal price reduction puts serious pressure on TFC to match. At the very least, a renewal discount would be a good middle ground. Rewards the supporters while not having to actually drop prices. If they don't do something along these lines, they'll hear and feel it.
Just to put some perspective on the Montreal reduction, they dropped single tickets to below seasons price mid season to get crowds. All the seasons holders threw a fit and the reduction is reflective of the undervalue and outsell they did on their own fans.
Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus
Twitter: @RPBPhil
but point being is that they did something, and fast too......had that been our FO, we would've gotten Uncle Tom sprouting off about "supply and demand" or "apples and oranges"......one phrase they need to learn is "customer service"......PB almost got it right in the hashtag of the screenshot of his famous tweet from a couple of days back though...........
THe how or why doesn't really matter. What Toronto fans see is they reduced the price on season tickets for a near playoff team in its first year, while we've had increases or freezes while being served up shit for 6 years. That's how it's going to look here.
Agreed with that. Just posting some fact as its often glossed over or not even put into the mix.
We have been handed a raw deal as supporters. And their timing sucks. They also got it horribly wrong in the past and all we can do now is either hope they fix it or walk away.
Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus
Twitter: @RPBPhil
I thought it was interesting how Joey Saputo really took aim at TFC when they announced this in August. You don't often see an owner taking such an obvious shot at another owner. Pretty ballsy. We know Montreal kinda bombed on the season ticket front this year, but the way he framed it was genious.
Would it be different if they had, oh I don't know, offered tickets on discount through Groupon or other like minded means? Or perhaps run some bogus "no fee frenzy" sales strategy?
I don't know if this dropped them below STH prices, but heck, sure would have been nice to take into account those that had already paid into the system.
(cue those infamous commercials with the guy and the truck, or the ice cream for "new customers only")
EDIT:
This is a shot at the F/O, not your post!
^^^ totally understand LOL.
From what I know the tickets have never gone below seasons ticket offers, even with Groupon and the likes.
I don't think the ownership change in August make things easy for the FO, just a guess though.
At any rate, I would like to see prices reduced especially considering the crap product for the last 6 years.
Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus
Twitter: @RPBPhil
I dropped my season tickets at the end of season 5. I found it very frustrating as an ex STH how hard it was to get meaningful help or info from the club regarding upcoming tickets or potential new seasons using my old season ticket account info.
At the beginning of this year I was told 'no, you can't go on the waiting list with your old email, address or account info.' If I wanted to attempt to get on any waiting list I needed to create a bogus new email account and reapply from step one. The answers I was receiving verged on arrogance. This pissed me off as I had 5 years of seasons to my name and the club already had all my info.
After I tried to go on a waiting list again last month without any success I contacted PB and with the help of a new ticket rep I was able to get back on a waiting list using all of my existing details.
So I actually received good customer service from a new account rep and received a good, reasonable answer to a year old problem. I hope this is the beginning of a new era of understanding and appreciating customers from the club.
I'll be watching the upcoming STH renewal period with great interest.
HA...none taken. Its been several years. Sit in the north end now. Its still overpriced.I agree that canning Cochrane will not help all STH renewals - but if the poll for this thread is any indication, TFC has a huge problem with the rewals by hard core fans, even though many/most of them are located in the least expensive seats. I can't see how it gets any easier for Anselmi and crew to entice the more casual fan who is already paying 2-4 times as much for each seat. The casual fan who owns season tickets may not analyze the problems to death like we do, but they still know this fish stinks bigtime. The overall entertainment value the last 2-3 years has been really, really bad, and only getting worse - for all fans and supporters. If you are the wealthy owner of club seats, then you will probably renew, but for most of the rest of us, the entertainment value is so poor that Anselmi better hope to hell that at least the supporters renew...
It strategically helps TFC in the long run if they can at least maintain the (hard)core supporter STH base - then there is a chance to bring the atmosphere back, once the club gets their act together. If the supporters leave in droves and the supporter sections then get severely diluted, they won't have the ingredients to easily fill the stadium again. Can you imagine them trying to build their atmosphere on the backs of the suits sitting in the prawn seats in sec 123? (no offence to 123elite
Supporters sections are the cheap seats, but I would argue that getting rid of (promoting) Cochrane out of the TFC organization has strategic value to avoid long term annihilation of their whole Season Ticket Holder base. We pretty well all agree that Anselmi is untouchable and getting rid of Mariner won't change things in the long term.
I bet if Cochrane was turfed and a presidential structure announced, they could dramatically change the results of this current poll... This is Anselmi's one last chance to swing this around - removing Cochrane next year will be too late!
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