ohhhh that's a groaner!
Sure, why not. what the hell else am i gonna do?
Hells no! not giving these MOFO's another penny!
maybe... no , yes.... I'm sooo confused.
ohhhh that's a groaner!
I know I am going to take a lot of flack for what I am about to say, but here goes anyways.
I will be renewing my 4 tickets in the supporters section, at the end of the day it avergaes out to $20 a game per seat (which is split between my brother and I). To me that is a fair price for a seat. What I feel sorry for is the people in the 'prawn' sections that pay a ridiculous amount of money to watch this team year in and year out for the last 6 years. I do not blame anyonefor walking away. Also, I am not condoning people that are leaving due to financial concerns or lack of results. This is just my reasoning on my I am staying.
As sad is this sounds I love this team no matter what, I have been around the club long enough to understand certain things will not change i.e. MLSE (Rogers/Bell) selling the club and getting a roof or a proper stadium. The one thing that would make me estatic is the annoucement of Mariner's resignation or firing that is all I want. The thing I miss the most is the atmosphere at the game part of it is the people that have left and the other half is the results on the pitch. (Side note I was at the Canada vs Panama game last Friday and it was amazing, but made me sad as I remeber the old days and how I miss buzz at the game) What I do know is that we are at rock bottom and the only way is up. Are we going to go through another purge and reset of the team probably...
I will not leave my team or my seats, which at the end of the day will make it that much sweeter when this team turns the corner whenever that ends of being. I love my team and no matter what I can't walk out on them.
^^A noble post.
“We changed the entire league’s opinion of the viability of soccer in North America. And then we blew it because we chickened out." —Tim Leiweke
That is exactly it. If anything we ( the supporters) were responsible more then them, for we created an atmopshere which is about the only thing that they could sell to the general public, other then the occasional DP type player and "marquee" game.Originally Posted by Parkdale
I understand why people are keeping on buying tickets, but I have said since the end of season 4 that the only thing that MLSE will understand would be $, and when revenues start drying up they would understand the need for change. Sure enough between seaons 4 and season 5 they tried to make a change, one that seemed positive, but once it started to stray off course, they once again took too long to re-act, and then made the most short term, ill thought out move they could make. Hence season 7 seems to be doomed as well, and that seems apparent before seaons 6 has finished. However, I will keep my options open as far as getting seasons again.
Last edited by trane; 09-12-2012 at 03:41 PM.
What do you mean by due dilligence? BMO was built for the U20 and the Argo owners expressed some interest in MLS. And that's when MLSE stepped in and bought the franchise - the last "cheap" franchise MLS sold. They had very low projections for potential ticket sales so you could say their due dilligence was very conservative - or you could say it was wrong. Either way, from very early on it blew up far bigger than they expected.
And, to be honest, bigger than I expected. At first BMO looked like a great place to spend a Saturday afternoon having a beer with my friends. And it was something new and I was looking for something that said "Toronto" that didn't have any baggage.
Mo not being qualified for the job wasn't personal for me, I'd never heard of the guy before they introduced him. He had a little MLS experience and I could see where the league owed him because he signed with KC when they were called the Wiz and wore possible the worst uniforms in pro sports (and I remember the California Golden Seals white skates).
But the first sign of trouble came at the end of the first season when the assistant coaches that came from KC with Mo didn't like the contract offers for season two and left. Why had they only been signed to one year contracts? How far off was the due dilligence that resulted in such conservative decisions?
Then they moved Mo upstairs (likely because he was desperate for a job and would do anything his boss told him to - and because he had no other edxperience to fall back on so he could never say, "Look, I've done this before, I know what to do...") and one decision after another went wrong.
What decisions did they make before a ball was kicked that wasn't what anyone in their position would have done?
THis is SOOOOOOO true.
So fucking true.
So utterly, completely, undeniably true.
But I'll go you one further and make an appeal to those going out of love for team or atmosphere: you can get both somewhere else. Not the atmosphere so much, but the people who make up the atmosphere.
Having a good time is always -- ALWAYS, by way of human biochemistry -- grounded in our sense of security. That comes from the people with whom we interact. You can go to the game with same guys, and have a great time ... while being at a bar, watching it on a big screen.
A season of that, with even the most hardcore fans not showing, and we will either get change or a sale. People don't want a money loser. SO make them lose money.
People who go to preserve the culture and tradition are just slowing that change for two hours of biochemical bliss each week, most of which you get from the people, not the environment they're in.
You know what... I'm seriously considering supporting my local CSL (CPSL?) team. I'm done with my seasons tix after 6 years of this. Many of us will watch TFC games, I'm sure. But is it time to support another team altogether?
What was up in 112/113 tonight? No one showed up. Did I miss a protest or something?
Last edited by TorCanSoc; 09-12-2012 at 09:14 PM.
Just had the people next to me who own 4 seats in the +$1k range per seat say they were done with it. Not sure if they were just frustrated or meant they are done with their season seats. Either way, they left after the second goal none too happy.
Once again Beach you are rambling on about what has happened after the fact. My point was that MLSE built a solid foundation for success before a ball was kicked in the spring of '07.
I know two people within the MLSE organization who were aware of the opportunity to acquire an MLS team nearly two years beforehand. There was extensive research done on how to go about marketing the game here. They looked extensively at the history of "football business" in this market and decisions were made not to fall into the trappings of previous attempts. The correct naming and positioning of the Club was paramount and, IMO, they got it spot on.
The corporate tie-in with BMO (The Bank) was very significant, as was the deal with the City of Toronto to handle BMO Field's operations. This gave them control of the park, regardless of the event taking place, MLSE pulled the strings. They were very opportunistic in the creation of BMO Field and the bargain price of the MLS franchise which dovetailed perfectly.
Their early recognition that working with supporter's groups and allowing/using them to create an atmosphere and a cornerstone marketing feature was something foreign to Toronto sport. But their research months earlier had highlighted the benefits in footy culture and decided to "go with the flow" which was truly out of their comfort zone. I became involved with RPB a couple of weeks after the start of Season One and was shocked at our groups involvement with the Club and the FO.
The leverage and power MLSE have in this city is second-to-none and they used every bit of it with everyone from the City of Toronto, to suppliers and to the Media, who quite frankly couldn't have given a shit about soccer.
Due diligence is when "research and analysis is done in preparation of a business transaction" to minimize risk and create a platform for success. You feel TFC failed to do this, I respect your opinion. I think you're wrong.
You may also feel MLSE didn't do anything that any other corporation would have but they did. And with all of the above they positioned this franchise to do what MLSE does best…MAKE MONEY! That's all that matters to them…everything else is lip service.
What has happened since April of 2007 has been nothing short of a shit show. Any foundation MLSE has built has eroded, they are back to square one. On that, I feel confident we agree.
“We changed the entire league’s opinion of the viability of soccer in North America. And then we blew it because we chickened out." —Tim Leiweke
MLSE people travelled so much to the UK before they came to terms with MLS there were rumours that MLSE was to buy a middling UK team (not the Leeds rumours - those came after)
i dont have a copy of the one the reports any longer, but i recall MLSE were very interested in value proposition of having the one large name academy in a population base of 5-7m people that could generate 18 and 19 year olds on first pro contracts that would be re-sold to europe. The team would give you the academy which would be more profitable than the team long term. They saw this when they studied Reading (i think).
Can not think that locking up Morgan and Henry was done to allow TFC to loan them, trial them in Europe this winter with sale as a plan.
No long term contract that pins the 19 year old down, no approval for loans or trials. One sale like Morgan will put stars in the eyes of hopefuls GTA wide.
i will renew and hold my nose. But down to one seat from 4 - i could not give my tickets away last night. It was also my first missed game in a couple years. I just want to feel like i did on friday with the pride and hope every time.
Its a massive mistake to think you are going to open an Academy and make a lot of Edu type sales. Edu is a rare exception.
Guys like Morgan and Henry aren't going to be sold for Edu money.
We sold Edu in 2008. Its 4 years later. We'll be lucky if every 10 years we make a sale like that.
No,no protest,apathy and lethargy is spreading fast around BMO.
If we are going to protest it wont be in stadium,it will be in front of the GATE 4 and pointed towards the retards in TFC FO.I really hope we will do something about it,but it's up to the group to decide,what and when if at all.
next years season ticket renewal will include gimp masks so we can be fully involved in the S&M TFC is serving us
i was embarrassed, actually embarrassed, last night to support this team.
all season i've taken advantage of free seats offered up by supporters to bring friends to games and i've done this in hopes that i can get a few more friends interested in the team. well last night i had a friend down who didn't want to sit in the supporters section because she didn't know the chants and wanted to sit (she works shift so she was standing all day). we ended up moving to the prawnies, and never got hassled by security for it.
at the half, she says shes bored and asks if i want to leave.
the only thing that stopped us from going was me saying i wanted to stay. not because we were playing particularly well, or because i was hoping we'd turn it around (i honestly thought we were going to lose by more), but because i felt bad leaving when someone else has offered up their ticket. she decided that it would be more entertaining to browse on her phone then watch the game, and i don't blame her. i wish i could, but i don't.
i agree with your sentiment, i really do, but in all honesty MLSE banks on people like this.
people who will always be there. people who will always support the team.
this isn't like other leagues that can swap out owners, or have teams with long storied histories. this is about our league, our history, and to be more specific, an unpleasant history. we know how this team was set up, we know the support they fell into, but as long as MLSE are able to find fans who are still willing to make them a profit, nothing is going to change. im not specifically blaming you, or people who do the same, but facts are facts. tickets sold equal bums in seats, and bums in seats equal revenue.
this house was built on a damaged foundation but, instead of repairing the foundation, they keep slapping a fresh coat of paint on it and hoping it'll sell.
Okay, I can see that. I just don't agree that a "solid foundation" was built because if it had been solid it wouldn't have crumbled so fast. But, sure, a "foundation" was started. They used their leverage with the local government, they signed a sponsorship agreement and they met with some supporters. It just doesn't seem like all that much of a foundation.
But maybe a thread on here about what was done right in the beginning would be a good thing, a little reminder of why people got involved in the first place.
someone posted this chant
We never win at home
and we never win away
We lost last week
and we lost today
We don't give a fuck
'Cos we're all pissed up
Toronto FC
OK
i know its all in fun but this chant represents the perfect season ticketholder to TFC FO
This is Tom Anselmi logic.Originally Posted by Section 117
I will not leave my team or my seats, which at the end of the day will make it that much sweeter when this team turns the corner whenever that ends of being. I love my team and no matter what I can't walk out on them.
Sports is cyclical. Sit in your seats long enough and you'll be watching a winner. Look at the LA Kings - they did it.
The fact of it all is that you can't compare TFC to the LA Kings because they aren't owned by MLSE.
This argument is only correct if you compare TFC to the Leafs or Raptors... and there, my friends, is where I rest my case.
a ha ha heh he hoo.. ha
Even though I am renewing that does not mean I am satisfied with the product on the pitch. I will continually demand and expect things to be done to change the shit show that we have had over the last 6 years. That being said not everyone in the front office is useless I know many of them and they geniunely care about this team the problem they are not the people in charge....
Marinier needs to get the fuck out of this city and never come back he is a close second to Mo in how full shit and he is a useless piece of shit as a manager. They are both con men and uncle Tom got burned not once but twice. As sad as it sounds hopefully third time is a charm. I can't wait till the town hall I have some great questions to ask them. I will not let off the hook I expect answers and if I don't get them or they skirt around answering i will call them out.
I voted wait and see but i think im 99% not renewing, games are like watching paint dry and the coach is a joke. I have no tactical knowledge of the game really but at least I would play guys in their correct positions. Why renew when you get no frills football at gourmet prices.
What great idea Beach_Red!
At the start, I was invited to an RPB Executive meeting by Canadian_Bhoy and Jack to help with the writing the group's mission statement. I didn't know many but I was so impressed! Meeting Parky, Nature Girl, Flush, Phil…really dedicated, enthusiastic people with only one thing in common…a desire to support a local team like never before. I remember asking them if they had thought to documented the birth of the group and how it would be great if we got the Club's side, what a great story!!!
MLSE is like a bad boyfriend. In your heart, you hope it'll be different this time but regardless of what they say or do, they're the same old douche bags. Only interest in getting into your…errrr…wallet.
I will never forgive them for allowing this whole thing slip away.
Fucking assholes.
“We changed the entire league’s opinion of the viability of soccer in North America. And then we blew it because we chickened out." —Tim Leiweke
Good banner idea for Saturday.
NO FRILLS PRICING
Exactly.
They got a couple of things bang-on. Namely, the stadium location and the marketing of the team. They basically revolutionized MLS with those... but outside of that, the way this franchise was constructed wasn't exactly conducive to long term thinking. The stadium was built on the cheap, the field surface was wrong, the capacity was wrong, the limited number of concessions and washrooms is bad. Probably a lot more stuff I am forgetting as well...
I've been trying to make the point on these boards for years now, without much success, that Canada is a football supporter bomb waiting to explode and take over the country. We just lack infrastructure.
That's all these ass clowns stumbled into. That's it, that's all. Give fans of the PROFESSIONAL game a half-decent stadium and the highest potential level of the local version and you will sell 10,000 season tickets in ANY city in this country.
Seriously. Our first year team was inept. The league hadn't figured out competitive roster rules yet. We didn't score a goal for the first four games.
AND NO ONE CARED. We were just happy to have what we all wanted, at least on the surface.
That's true ANYWHERE in Canada.
If you accept that proposition, and I obviously do, it stands to reason that the Golden Goose was the game and the level of professionalism it offered over what had come in the past. By logical extent, the guys at the head of it could've been firehydrants and we would've had the same damn result in terms of box office success.
But eventually, they have to provide a product, not just the promise of one to come. For the most part, that hasn't happened. TFC has been like buying a pass to a local art movie series, only to find six of the seven films on offer are Jim Varney Earnest flicks. You're not gonna keep making that mistake, even if you're in a town without no other film series on offer.
Not only has TFC set the MLS record for missing the playoffs for 6 straight seasons it is also on pace to be actually worse than in its 1st season. Here are the stats. The would need 4 pts. in there next 2 games to equal the expansion season. This may just be the worst TFC has ever been.
Year Points 30 game season
2007 25pts.
2008 35pts.
2009 39pts.
2010 35pts.
2011 33pts. 34 game season
2012 21pts. 28 of 34 games so far
I agree somewhat. I just wonder if this would be true in all cities. I doubt very much that Montreal could withstand the type of first two years that TFC has had. Montreal wouldn't stand for it. Luckily for them they have an owner who won't stand for it either.
Here in Toronto they marketed the team very well because they know their audience very well. (or at least they researched it well). They gave us a team that reminded the plethora of ex pats in and around this city of the football clubs they grew up with. Unfortunately I think this was a mistake. And I think that's where we as a whole carry a small portion of the blame for the shit we've been force fed.
Montreal has also tried to cater to a large portion of the football followers in their area.
Difference is clear. Montreal doesn't sell out games. The fans there refuse to pony up until they see a true commitment from the club....not just a fancy crest and smokeshow ploys to pull on their heart strings. Product on the field is paramount. Should have been that way here from day one. Unfortunately TFC had so many people clamouring for pro footy in this city that they could do whatever they wanted and we'd eat it up.
I know I did. I wasn't concerend at first with the product. I knew it was going to suck. I knew that the team was going to play archaic, dead football. I knew that they'd value the "heart and soul" guys way more than any talented guys. (see Jim Brennan vs. Amado Guevara) I knew this cause it was written all over the team. TFC (the onfield product) was built just like any random football club in the GTA. Same mentality of staff and coaching.
Same value system.
But I wanted them nonetheless, because I had faith that they'd evolve.
6 years later and they're back to 2007. In fact, they're worse...because they're still playing the same style and the rest of the leauge (and world) have continued to move forward.
And yet...we still have supporters who overlook ghastly mistakes in favour of heart and soul effort.
For example: Eckersley numerous poorly timed attempts at tackles last night that turned already bad rushes into break aways or two on ones. He also marked poorly in the box on more than one occassion.
Yet...we still here loud cheers when he runs as hard as he can to save a ball from going into touch and giving up a throw in.
We still read supporters talking about him being man of the match.
I just don't get it.
We need an attitude adjustment. Our expectations of everyone at the club, from top to bottom, have to rise. Heart, sould, effort, "getting stuck in" are not nearly enough.
Do people really think that if Anselmi is ousted (and I'd love him to be fired) but Mariner remains we'd be a better team? There's no way.
Last edited by v00d00daddy; 09-13-2012 at 12:37 PM.
Can anyone give me an example of this ?
The naming of the team (this wasn't trivial, they could easily have messed that up). The logo. The early engagement with supporters. The offer to SSHs to buy seats for $100 in the south end.
They got all that exactly right.
I wish we could be an expansion team again. I would gladly give up 100% of what we have for another expansion draft, with a new management team.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I believe they were targeting 'Inter Toronto'. Public feedback steered them away from that.
The logo ? Meh. I've grown accustomed to it, but they could have come up with anything, really.
They did have meet and greets with the fans down at the pub.
South End season seats were sold on the cheap, agreed, but that wasn't due to savvy marketing. That was in order to sell tickets. Had they known was about to happen those tickets would've cost more than double.
regarding the South End seating. It truly is a pity that we weren't in the same situation as Seattle or Vancouver. A loose group of 40 people asking for tickets in the same section is hardly the same thing as an established supporters group working with FO to claim an entire stand.
here's the tune...btw we've been singing this in 115 for much ofthe season but would love it if it took off in 112/113 - simply change MCFC to Toronto FC and it's perfect 9I should add that us Citeh fans sing it ironically now, but it sustained us during the bad times (80's,90,s,00s....)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9odscgk88yA
That has been my point since the end of season four. People thought I was jumping off the bandwagon, I just realized that we need changed and that the only way to push for it, was with the $.
Agree with your second post as well. MLSE got the franchise at the right time, and started killing it almost from day one. There were some good moves, but they are way outnumbered by the poor ones.
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Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !
