and so it begins (or the 'my name's Tucker, not Sucker' TFC 2013 ST renewal thread)

[Suds]

1) Credit cards have "come ons" all the time. All the mileage cards do it. In this case, it's the cost of the jersey (which is a fraction of $120)

2) I think, if there is an issue, it's that this is incredibly small beer in the context of the over SSH prices. It's possibly a signal that there will be no real concessions on price. The less you trust TFC FO, the more you would think this.

So it's partly based in reality, partly based in the existing negative perception.

Personally, I found it cynical. They need to address the real customer dissatisfaction, not pretend it doesn't exist and deal with it via window dressing.

While I did not find it cynical ... maybe cyclical ... I do agree with your statement on the need to address dissatisfaction amongst customers with real actions.

[phonzo]

Are we scraping the bottom of the barrel just to get riled up about something...christ reminds me of the watch thread.

Those that want it will get it - those that don't won't. I'm honestly awestruck at times at the amount of negativity that can be generated for nothing. Save that passion for other things it's a fucking credit card....

[DangerRed]

This is it, then? A free jersey? I wonder if prices will be higher or frozen, then. Because they definitely will not be lower.

[DangerRed]

Are we scraping the bottom of the barrel just to get riled up about something...christ reminds me of the watch thread.

Those that want it will get it - those that don't won't. I'm honestly awestruck at times at the amount of negativity that can be generated for nothing. Save that passion for other things it's a fucking credit card....

You're missing the point. Would you be pissed if I told you that prices weren't being lowered, and perhaps actually being raised, for next year, despite the teams performance this season? You probably would be. This jersey giveaway could be seen as a leading indicator that this well may be the case.

[Brooker]

Are we scraping the bottom of the barrel just to get riled up about something...christ reminds me of the watch thread.

Those that want it will get it - those that don't won't. I'm honestly awestruck at times at the amount of negativity that can be generated for nothing. Save that passion for other things it's a fucking credit card....

Yup.

[phonzo]

You're missing the point. Would you be pissed if I told you that prices weren't being lowered, and perhaps actually being raised, for next year, despite the teams performance this season? You probably would be. This jersey giveaway could be seen as a leading indicator that this well may be the case.

Actually I doubt this is it - we are so pissed off about everything on this board common sense has seemingly walked out the door. All this promotion is some fancy marketting promotion by a sponsor leveraging their contract. Nothing more nothing less....

BMO a sponsor of the team is using their sponsorship to reach out to the teams fans to offer them THE OPTION of credit card and a jersey. Nothing more - nothing less. We forget that at times business operations are separate from team operations.....

[Dreadlocks]

Actually I doubt this is it - we are so pissed off about everything on this board common sense has seemingly walked out the door. All this promotion is some fancy marketting promotion by a sponsor leveraging their contract. Nothing more nothing less....

BMO a sponsor of the team is using their sponsorship to reach out to the teams fans to offer them THE OPTION of credit card and a jersey. Nothing more - nothing less. We forget that at times business operations are separate from team operations.....

^^This!

I think everyone here is just so pissed at the way the past 6 years have gone, everything looks like a cash grab or a smoke screen.

[TOBOR !]

But what if this is your incentive to renew, @Phil ; (or anyone else) ?

Are you satisfied ?

[v00d00daddy]

The promotion may be the same as Montreal but the bad tastes comes with the circumstances and the fact that the promotion is attached to SSH renewals.

Montreal are competitive (especially at home).

They're lowering prices.

They're giving SSHs reasons to renew. Several of them.

We're the opposite in every way.

Yet our club still expects us to see the same treatment as some kind of reward.

It's just hard to swallow. Free jersey be damned.

Gimme some tangible reasons to renew. Not some more things with a crest on it that you've made people not care about anymore.

[jabbronies]

But what if this is your incentive to renew, @Phil ; (or anyone else) ?

Are you satisfied ?

If that person finds that a free jersey is their incentive to renew, then yes, they will be satisfied.
If it's not enough incentive to satisfy them, then they probably won't renew.

As for me, this is not an ideal incentive alone to renew.
If TFC do drop prices (which I doubt they will do), but if they did to a level I am comfortable with, then this incentive option would satisfy me.

[v00d00daddy]

Sometimes I think there are a certain amount of people who couldn't give two shits about TFC or Football for that matter who just want to have a place to come to and continually complain about stuff because they have nothing better to do with their time.

You're the one who sounds unreasonably negative to me because you're concocting fictitious people just because you dont agree with the way some people define support.

Insinuating that people who complain about Tfc don't care about TFC isn't exactly the most positive of outlooks.

Gimme a list of reasons to be optimisitic about this team and I'll give you one 5 times as long of why I'm pessimistic.

People who take the time to post on this site obviously care about TFC more than the average person. Taking shots at them (IMO) is a sign that you'd rather question their support than argue your position as to why you're still positive.

I see one positive with this team going forward. And it's a cautious optimism at that...Darren O'Dea.

That's it. Not Henry...not Morgan..Not silva.

Not because I don't think those guys arent good but rather, because I don't see this club being able to help them succeed and reach their potential.

[Phil]

But what if this is your incentive to renew, @Phil ; (or anyone else) ?

Are you satisfied ?

I am not satisfied at this point. Year six feels like year 2. Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild. I would like to see some positive growth, a direction emerging that is not longball (although I get why we have to play that way right now). The injuries are killing us (as we knew if they happened they would) and the non stop turnstyle of coaches coupled with the continual mistakes of upper management (lack of direction and president) frustrate the hell out of me.

Now, as for reasons that would make me renew- I will do it based on price, if they stay the same or lower I may hold onto my tickets because I like the seats and I like the group of people I sit with. I enjoy going to games, its something my wife and I really like and I want to continue to do that based off of our experience. By no means do I want to assume to speak for other people or judge them on their choices to renew. You asked a personal question and that is my personal answer.

[Pookie]

I don't mind it. It's a promotion. If you want the jersey, get the card.

If you want to be cynical, if they are prepared to give you $120 worth of value... take $120 off the price of tickets. Of course, the jersey doesn't cost $120 to make but still. $120 off a pair of Supporters' Tickets would make your renewal price the same as Montreal's.

[jabbronies]

I don't mind it. It's a promotion. If you want the jersey, get the card.

If you want to be cynical, if they are prepared to give you $120 worth of value... take $120 off the price of tickets. Of course, the jersey doesn't cost $120 to make but still. $120 off a pair of Supporters' Tickets would make your renewal price the same as Montreal's.

I just wanted to bold and repost this part as I feel it's an important post. Says a lot IMO. There may be an attempt being made here to try and right things by FO. It's a nice try, but comes up short for a number of reasons.

This is a quick fix solution to the high tickets prices, but in reality what needs to happen is a proper price adjustment.

This may satisfy the SSH but what about supporters who are not SSH and have to buy tickets individually or as part of a partial package. Those people are still left with the burden of over-inflated tickets.

If you plan on renewing your seasons, I recommend taking advantage of this offer. Just be aware of the interest rate and make sure you are getting a proper jersey.

[Phil]

I just wanted to bold and repost this part as I feel it's an important post. Says a lot IMO. There may be an attempt being made here to try and right things by FO. It's a nice try, but comes up short for a number of reasons.

This is a quick fix solution to the high tickets prices, but in reality what needs to happen is a proper price adjustment.

This may satisfy the SSH but what about supporters who are not SSH and have to buy tickets individually or as part of a partial package. Those people are still left with the burden of over-inflated tickets.

If you plan on renewing your seasons, I recommend taking advantage of this offer. Just be aware of the interest rate and make sure you are getting a proper jersey.

The thing is, they still had 16000 people renew last year. At best I can see them freezing prices this year. Pending actual renewal rates, then next year you *might* see a corection.

Just putting on the old analyst hat there.

[AL-MO]

Bah, even if we won the Supporter's Shield and MLS Cup (I know it ain't happening anytime soon either) then the threads would be filled with complaints about a whole lot of other stuff believe me (potentially raising ticket prices for sure).

Sometimes I think there are a certain amount of people who couldn't give two shits about TFC or Football for that matter who just want to have a place to come to and continually complain about stuff because they have nothing better to do with their time.

Or maybe they are just pissed that TFC as whole is a complete shit show. (and its not going to get better anytime soon)

[backbeat]

Bah, even if we won the Supporter's Shield and MLS Cup (I know it ain't happening anytime soon either) then the threads would be filled with complaints about a whole lot of other stuff believe me (potentially raising ticket prices for sure).

Sometimes I think there are a certain amount of people who couldn't give two shits about TFC or Football for that matter who just want to have a place to come to and continually complain about stuff because they have nothing better to do with their time.

I've paid TFC over $12,000 the past 6 years let alone merchandise and concessions - I think i have a right to be pissed and complain.

[TOBOR !]

I don't mind it. It's a promotion. If you want the jersey, get the card.

If you want to be cynical, if they are prepared to give you $120 worth of value... take $120 off the price of tickets. Of course, the jersey doesn't cost $120 to make but still. $120 off a pair of Supporters' Tickets would make your renewal price the same as Montreal's.

it's more than a promotion. It's put out there as a 'very special offer' to 'renewing season ticket holders who act by a certain date'.

it's an earlybird renewal incentive. just like a chance to win a KIA or go on a road trip with the team.

[TOBOR !]

I am not satisfied at this point. Year six feels like year 2. Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild. I would like to see some positive growth, a direction emerging that is not longball (although I get why we have to play that way right now). The injuries are killing us (as we knew if they happened they would) and the non stop turnstyle of coaches coupled with the continual mistakes of upper management (lack of direction and president) frustrate the hell out of me.

Now, as for reasons that would make me renew- I will do it based on price, if they stay the same or lower I may hold onto my tickets because I like the seats and I like the group of people I sit with. I enjoy going to games, its something my wife and I really like and I want to continue to do that based off of our experience. By no means do I want to assume to speak for other people or judge them on their choices to renew. You asked a personal question and that is my personal answer.

So this complicates matters for you. I don't have an emotional / social investment in my seats.

I'm not able to make it to all games. I don't see the same folks week in and week out. Furthermore, my tickets are in 105. I like the seats, but I'm not surrounded by RPB.

I'm not a curmudgeon. I enjoy game days and get on well with whoever's near me. It's just that I can do this without renewing.

I can buy the odd ticket as I see fit, and buy a team jersey with all the money I've saved (nevermind not having to try and dump tickets I can't use).

[sully]

I've been a season ticket holder for 6 years. I think I would be more inclined to renew if I had the option of changing my full seasons tickets entitlement for next year to instead getting half-seasons in the same seats. Then I would like to have the option of converting my half seasons tickets next year to full seasons the following year. I don't feel like paying for a full season of games when I can't attend them, don't feel inclined too because the constant disappointment at th egames and because I can't offload them when the team is shite it makes it a pain - a pain I would be paying a lot of money for. I think this is doable, it would placate fans who are frustrated but also still keep them attached to the club as before and MLSE would have the opportunity to sell the other tickets that wouldn't be included in my package.

[Ultra & Proud]

I've paid TFC over $12,000 the past 6 years let alone merchandise and concessions - I think i have a right to be pissed and complain.

I probably dropped a bit more than and I am pissed as well I just choose to direct it at times and places when/where it's warranted (Cochrane promotion) instead of just railing on about everything. Not saying you do that or anything but some people look for the bad in every single thing.

[Ultra & Proud]

I've been a season ticket holder for 6 years. I think I would be more inclined to renew if I had the option of changing my full seasons tickets entitlement for next year to instead getting half-seasons in the same seats. Then I would like to have the option of converting my half seasons tickets next year to full seasons the following year.

This here is actually a really good suggestion and doable. I don't see why this couldn't be done other than they want to force people to buy a full season of seats by holding their account number/waiting list deal over their heads. This would surely help ticket sales.

[TOBOR !]

I probably dropped a bit more than and I am pissed as well I just choose to direct it at times and places when/where it's warranted (Cochrane promotion) instead of just railing on about everything. Not saying you do that or anything but some people look for the bad in every single thing.

I'm sorry if my negative view of what I see as a thinly veiled attempt to get me to open my wallet to overpay for a poor product has you miffed.

Perhaps instead of poo-pooing my perspective you could you offer your own.

Please enlighten me with some examples of what there is about TFC to be optimistic about (I'm keen to know what they are).

[Belfast_Boy]

good idea Brian. much better than a shirt with a hook in it.

[Belfast_Boy]

I'm going a little off topic here.
what's happening in this thread is exactly why we should be pissed at TFC FO. we are bitching at each other and it's killing the support. instead of banging a drum or painting a banner, good supporters are getting pissed off. This results in people not going to games. Group members lashing out online and getting banned. And other members breaking away and doing their own thing. it started with MO and it's not got much better.
ok back to TFC FO and BMO trying to get money out of our pockets again.

[Ultra & Proud]

I'm sorry if my negative view of what I see as a thinly veiled attempt to get me to open my wallet to overpay for a poor product has you miffed.

Perhaps instead of poo-pooing my perspective you could you offer your own.

Please enlighten me with some examples of what there is about TFC to be optimistic about (I'm keen to know what they are).

Well I'm not miffed, it just gets tiresome to see the same ML$E thing coming up whenever anything happens with the club, good or bad. I'm also not pointing you out for this, I am just saying in general that it happens a lot. If we lose then ML$E can't build a team, over charging for shite product, etc but if we start winning or sign good players then it's because ML$E only want to gouge more money from supporters, sell more tickets, etc. It just gets boring.

As for my optimism, I wrote it in many threads explaining why already, but mainly for on the pitch possibilities. Nothing off the pitch as this supposed Cochrane promotion isn't sitting well with me at all and I think it's a lost opportunity to get a good Football person in charge. Regardless, I don't see why we can't build a decent MLS team. Not a Dutch team or any other fancy styled one but a standard MLS one that many other teams build, successfully at that, with actual MLS seasoned players who know what it takes to play in this league. Mariner does understand this league and I think/hope he'll jettison some of the rubbish remaining from the previous regimes and use that cash to invest in proven MLS players. For years the detractors of this club always said we shit the bed by selecting foreign/non-MLS managers to build the team and maybe they were right. For once we have a guy who knows MLS and I think he deserves this second window in full command to see if he can do it. If not, then can him and move on to the next guy.

[TOBOR !]

^ well, I wish I shared your enthusiasm for a club under Mariner. I don't see it, but that's for another thread. We are at peace.

[Phil]

So this complicates matters for you. I don't have an emotional / social investment in my seats.

I'm not able to make it to all games. I don't see the same folks week in and week out. Furthermore, my tickets are in 105. I like the seats, but I'm not surrounded by RPB.

I'm not a curmudgeon. I enjoy game days and get on well with whoever's near me. It's just that I can do this without renewing.

I can buy the odd ticket as I see fit, and buy a team jersey with all the money I've saved (nevermind not having to try and dump tickets I can't use).

I totally respect you and your decision. My motives are about me, my family and my close friends. I also have total understanding of your point of view.

[Phil]

I'm going a little off topic here.
what's happening in this thread is exactly why we should be pissed at TFC FO. we are bitching at each other and it's killing the support. instead of banging a drum or painting a banner, good supporters are getting pissed off. This results in people not going to games. Group members lashing out online and getting banned. And other members breaking away and doing their own thing. it started with MO and it's not got much better.
ok back to TFC FO and BMO trying to get money out of our pockets again.

Well said. Times like this we need to respect one another instead of shitting all over everyone. discussion is good, but the constant attacking is getting very tired.

A couple points though, most of our frustration is with the team. A lot is in the business plan, mostly centered around pricing. Those are the focus points, the cynicism and constant negativity from those issues is whats turning supporters against each other.

[TorCanSoc]

6 years strong. Had 5 tickets, then 3 tickets, then 1 ticket. Next year is none. You can get tickets for half price before each game. You can buy three jerseys with the savings. You can go to all the games, you just won't have "Season Seat Holder" beside your name. And you pick second for other games, CCL, CMNT etc. Its been a very hard choice for me. But I think I'm a die-hard that's done. This is a sad statement to the TFC faithful, because i don't think I'm a lone on this one.