Forts, you're being far too sensible and boring. This a forum for over-excitement, fervered ranting and heated spleen venting. Please try and remember that mate!Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat
Forts, you're being far too sensible and boring. This a forum for over-excitement, fervered ranting and heated spleen venting. Please try and remember that mate!
We are the Angry Mob, we read the papers every day
We like who we like, we hate who we hate
But we're also easily swayed
Og, my point was that we need not worry that secondary tickets will dry up next year. It appears to me like 50% of STH are not showing up at TFC games, these days (arguable %, but the number really doesn't matter). If we follow your logic, the % of no shows will decrease - which is true, but the number will easily still be 20%-25%. Unless TFC rockets to the top of the table with their new hoofball strategy, people are going to continue to miss games and want to get something for their tickets, if they can...
Toronto FC games are not going to turn back into "must attend" events next year - life will continue to compete on gameday with TFC next year - even for those 8K Season ticket holders....
On top of that, I predict that MLSE will offer 2 for 1 promotions next year on their unsold tickets - they don't give a rat's ass about their season ticket holders - they only know how to count money. They either don't know, or don't care about the affects of underpricing their tickets below what the STH pays - it is just extra money in the bank to them - short term profit.
BTW - I don't think you are an FO stalking horse - I just think that you worry too much- the cheap tickets will still be there next year!
The secondary market of TFC season ticket holders dumping tickets on forums and craigslist will most likely end.
But the Travelzoo and Groupon deals will continue.
Why would the kijiji/craiglist/forum/ebay ticket market disappear??? It has been there since day 1. The trend is your friend - a flood of tickets this year suggests there will still be a good aftermarket next year - there will always be a need to dispose of tickets, and if the demand market is weak (ie team continues to be hoofball losers), then the prices in the aftermarket will continue to be favourable. You can take that to the bank!
Less inventory.
Not renewing.
In season 1, I bought 10 tickets.
Beginning of this season I was down to 2, which I sold off in April at a small loss.
I've had enough.
When I want to go to a match, tickets are readily abundant and often free and I can move around the stadium and sit wherever I please.
I expect that next season will be no different.
I get that logic but does it really seem practical that 100% of those that renew will attend every game? Sun, rain, snow? Through family obligations and kids' soccer practices? If not, then the secondary market is alive and well. And given that tickets can be purchased at the box office for $5-10 more than STHs paid per game, that secondary market will most likely operate at a discount.
I never had an issue picking up extra tickets to compliment my season tickets when the place was sold out and I certainly don't anticipate a problem picking up tickets if I opt to not renew.
The abundance of tickets available is primarily due to 16,000 ticket holders trying to unload them. Next year we'll likely see far less season tickets sold, so as a result the market will be less flooded with tickets. However, having said that, I'm pretty sure it will still be very, very easy to get tickets. Once Mariner has ruined 2013, though, you will probably only see a few thousand season tickets sold, and this is when the free/cheap tickets will be harder to come by.Why would the kijiji/craiglist/forum/ebay ticket market disappear??? It has been there since day 1. The trend is your friend - a flood of tickets this year suggests there will still be a good aftermarket next year - there will always be a need to dispose of tickets, and if the demand market is weak (ie team continues to be hoofball losers), then the prices in the aftermarket will continue to be favourable. You can take that to the bank!
Sadly, after we went from 4 to 2, to 1 to zero last year, none of us attended a game this season, we had enough....there are enough things in life to get us agitated and angry without having to pay for it.
I agree the supply (inventory) will go down next year, but the demand is the key factor, and it will still continue to be very weak. The demand is so poor and inventory so large right now that hardly anyone even bothers to try to give/sell their tickets. Next year, even if there are only 500-600 tickets available in the after market for each game - the prices will be low if there are only buyers for 300-400 tickets... A large inventory (like this year), is not neccessary for prices to continue to be low... Over the past 6 years I have purchase lots of tickets to supplement my season tickets - the only thing that will shoot prices up is TFC rocketing to the top of the table and the atmosphere coming back to BMO - i.e. the "demand" part of the equation would have to change dramatically. Realistically, that is just is not going to happen in 2013...
Moderator
Glad you mentioned it, because that's exactly why there are so many negative reactions to this. As promotions go, it's not a bad idea by any stretch. But the problem is that it appears to be the only concession being made. No word of a price reduction. No apology for another season down the drain or even mention of any town halls were these problems can be addressed. Just a free jersey if you sign up for a credit card. Admittedly it's still early and we might see some development happen on this front, but that's just total speculation at the moment.
If this is an olive branch the club is extending to the people who are ready to turn their backs on this club, then I'm afraid Paul B is going to be in for some uncomfortable news.
That's a pretty fair way of looking at it.
I get into similar arguments like this with people at work where there is a distinct mistrust between employees and management - not unlike the relationship many fans and supporters currently have with the club. People might be of the mind that you're "selling out" by taking advantage of what's being offered, but who's really losing out here? If you pay your card off and immediately cancel it, well you've just gifted yourself a free TFC jersey for very little effort.
If you want to get ahead, sometime it pays to play the game.
Last edited by Cashcleaner; 09-09-2012 at 12:39 AM.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Let me repeat: this promotion is aimed at existing season seat holders. ONLY. That means they're talking to you when they say, here, get this card (yes, 19.9 is the going rate on most cards unless you're staff) and you'll get a $120 jersey in return." I think that should trouble you as a season seat holder, because based on their past record, it is very very unlikely that the ownership of this club will offer you anything additional.
But what do I know...
None of what you wrote there makes any sense. I've read it three times now, and I still can't make heads or tails of what you're saying.
Moderator
^TRANSLATION:
"The abundance of tickets available on websites like Craigslist/Kijiji/etc. is largely due to 16k STHs all trying to unload their tickets. Next year fewer STHs will likely be sold, resulting in fewer tickets available on these websites (because there will be fewer STHs trying to unload their tickets). Having said that, he thinks it will still be very easy to get tickets. But once Mariner has destroyed the 2013 season as well, he thinks there will only be a few thousand STHs left, resulting in an even smaller pool for re-sold discounted tickets."
Basically, he thinks the discount market will dry up because there will be fewer season seat holders trying to unload their tickets at discounted prices. When that happens, the only way to get tickets will be from the club, which won't be discounted.
I sort of got a nosebleed the first time I read that paragraph too, haha.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Moderator
It's just as much speculation that there won't be development on any of these fronts, because as you say yourself - it's still early. So if it's early, how can this already appear to be the only concession being made?
MLSE have earned no favour from the fanbase, and cynicism is completely warranted, but I'm still with those who are saying this has been more than somewhat of an overreaction to a harmless Bank of Montreal promotion.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
LOL sorry, I kinda rushed through that post. Shakes had it right, though.
I think I'm done. I have 4 season tickets in the South End - a pair in 112 and a pair in 118. Had season tickets since Nov 2006, but three factors have pushed me to give them up:
1. the way the team is run from the top down, specifically Anselmi constantly making panicked, knee jerk reactions as to coach hiring and firing and the headless chicken approach to their playing styles;
2. the price gouging that has gone on since 2007 despite the shit show that item 1 above has created; and
3. the implosion of the after market making it impossible to sell on tickets for games you cannot get to.
I hate the thought of giving up my season tickets, but the apparent retention of Anselmi as the top dog with respect to TFC decisions (see Oldtimer's thread re the new MLSE board etc) means the shit show is going to continue and I cannot consciously spend that much money for MLSE to fuck up the running of the team while price gouging their customer base any longer.
It's sad, but ultimately I don't feel I have any other choice.
We are the Angry Mob, we read the papers every day
We like who we like, we hate who we hate
But we're also easily swayed
Oh, and personally I think that the RPB ticket forums are going to be far less stocked than they ahve ever been before from next seaosn onwards. Look how many people on here are saying that they have or will be giving up their season tickets.
I suggested to the exec several times that they might want to put a floor on ticket prices as well as a cap (no gouging was allowed in the boom times so why is it allowed in reverse in fallow periods?) but was completely ignored each time - didn't even get the courtesy of a response.
Now, the forum may suffer as a result which is kind of backwards when you consider this is a fan's group and exactly the kind of people you want to see going to the games and helping each other to get tickets.
We are the Angry Mob, we read the papers every day
We like who we like, we hate who we hate
But we're also easily swayed
I already own a shirt. I don't have a MasterCard. I use Visa. If this is it, then I'll say they'll be down to 5K in season tickets next year.
I'll be back and i'm assuming that vast majority of you guys will be back to. The tickets aren't exactly expensive when you compare it other teams in the market, I love live footy, and I love TFC. We hear this same venting every year and every year the season renewals are down but not significantly. We still have 16,000ish SSH which is like top 4 in the league; if as many people left as they said they have on this forum then our SSH would be a fraction of what it is. It takes a special kind of person to spend their time on a message board/forum such as this for their hobby, thats the kind of person who is deeply interested in this team and is likely willing to shell out the $400ish it costs per season to own season seats.
I think this is a great move by BMO Bank of Montreal... If the end results is more jerseys in the stadium then I am all for it.
@FluSH_RPB / IG: @Flush.rpb
The Legendary
RED PATCH BOYS
^^
While I agree with most of your post, don't assume everyone on here sits in $400 seats. Some of us fork out much more. Yes, that is our choice, but we still want to see value for being a customer. I'm renewing because the value is still there for me and I still enjoy going. That's why I'll be back. It's not a free jersey offer that would sway me one way or the other.
Yes, exactly this.
My seats cost $2,000 for the pair. I think we are going to see a lot more people in this price range drop off then in the north or south ends. I predict the red and dark greys will be half empty next season because at this price point, renewing is less justified given current circumstances and this shit management team.
You know what, this problem is all ready happening. Look around at TFC games, be it MLS/CCL/Voyageurs, the south end and the corners are full and the rest of the stadium is sparse. The people have spoken and have decided what this product is worth and its somewhere between $20-30. A part of me has hope that if this proposed BMO Field expansion goes through, tickets across the board will go down.
I think you've already started to see that. Look at the games on tv, you can clearly see the maple leaf of the east stands. But if you sit anywhere, it doesn't feel empty around you. The migration from red and dark grey is well under way. I loved my tickets in 109, but it pained me that a section over at my row level was paying ~400 and I was paying 1000+
The real question is though, what percentage drop off has there been from RPBs (or equivalent) as SSH being replaced by joe public? The FO likely doesn't care - a dollar is a dollar no matter who gives it to you - but look back to 2006 and the way they tried to set up a "genuine" footie ethos among the fan base. It's sad to see the club fall so far from the ideals it started out with.
We are the Angry Mob, we read the papers every day
We like who we like, we hate who we hate
But we're also easily swayed
Moderator
Yeah, that's a fair point, I agree. Maybe a better way to put it is that, so far this is the only offer we've been given, and it's a little underwhelming. But like you said, there could be more to come. And obviously, I'm of the opinion that there should be more to come.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Moderator
If there isn't more to come, I predict MLSE are going to be in for a rude awakening.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
I am part of the 223 exodus! Could someone please verify my statement below.
I'm not too sure if its accurate since I have considerably dropped my beer consumption from Season 2 (Too much!) to Season 6 (Zero!). I was priced out and my liver could also see BMO as a mini rest vacation.
It seemed that my section in S2 had lots more football fans (more noise, more swearing and passion). All that beer might have affected my hearing and what was really happening around me
My experiences for S6, lots of soccer moms and kids around me. I could hear a pin drop during most of the game. Atmosphere is pretty much nil apart of hearing the supporters sections cheering.
On a side note: Im wondering how much a TFC jersey costs to make in China. I would guess around 4$?
Last edited by asterix606; 09-10-2012 at 07:13 AM.
I think he's saying the percentage of tickets sold that actually get used will increase, as people only buy tickets to games they intend to go to.
a ha ha heh he hoo.. ha
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