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But this isn't isolated to MLSE. Lots of team owners do "good work" in the community, but also largely take advantage of local governments, get sweetheart deals, and make threats over things like new stadium funding.Originally Posted by ensco
I'm under no illusions that they do any "community outreach" from the bottom of their hearts, as with any corporation. It's all strategy, and image.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Yep, same deal on most counts (except I already had a Bank of Montreal account). I still have my "Young Expos" membership card, signed by "Rusty" Staub!This was my childhood, too. I opened my first bank account (Bank of Montreal, back when they were based in Montreal) so I could get into the Young Expos in 1970. When I finally moved to Toronto in the early 90s I couldn't really support the Leafs or the Jays but then TFC came along and I thought I finally had a local team.
I thought losing the Expos was bad, this might be worse
Last edited by Oldtimer; 09-05-2012 at 09:47 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
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This conversation has bled over into issues we don't disagree about. My sole disagreement was over the statement that they weren't local.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
^ this makes me think of a certain former Tour de France winner.
I'll go watch the kids play at park before cheering on another team.
Hamilton FC play up the road. I've been thinking of getting season tickets for them for next year.
I get that we're all TFC supporters, but I think this is the point where we should choose to support the game itself.
Go to the park to watch the kids.
Find out who your 'local' team is, wherever you live. I don't mean your MLS or NASL/USL side. Dig deeper. Look into the CSL, or even city leagues. Go and watch them play. Show up at Sunday League matches.
Learn to enjoy the game again before MLSE takes all the fun out of it. Take a TFC sabbatical. Maybe you'll find something you like better, or maybe when you return MLSE's head will have popped out of it's ass and BMO will be a fun place to be again.
a ha ha heh he hoo.. ha
I don't know if you can get a much greener pasture than Toronto in my opinion. You just have to know how to cultivate that pasture to make things grow. You give a farmer a field he will make things grow. You take a city slicker and give him a field and it is going to die slowly. Even if he gets a German farming consultant who employs a Dutch farming philosophy it may not work in the North American climate. Ok, enough farming analogies...
I'm not trying to compare myself to you, I don't need yours or anyone else's to make my own choice that I've already made, I'm just asking if one exists for you. I'm asking what tolerance you have for this obvious money over all attitude MLSE takes with his entities.
I just get the impression that there's some who will literally support no matter what MLSE does to fans or the club. I was curious if I'm correct about it.
If you don't want to share your stance here, that's fine, it's your business. I just asked because I'm trying to understand where some types of people stand on the issue of MLSE abuse of fans. Wondering how many people just don't care what MLSE does, they just need to see live football. Or if they are afraid the club will leave if they take a legit stand against this crap.
I am curious to know more about many TFC fans and why they stand how they do right now. That's it.
La Grand Orange! Try comparing that experience of the new Expos with TFC. I took my son to some games and he became a fan of Greg Sutton. Then he was thrilled that DeRo came to Toronto. Who would have signed his "Young TFC" membership card? Tom Anselmi? Paul Bierne? I guess the closest would be Dichio, who they would have run out of town if there hadn't been a supporter revolt. It seems they've done all they can to make sure there's no "Jonesville" at BMO...
I hope TFC isn't the be all and end of for peoples enjoyment of footy. That would be depressing. It's pretty easy to support a Euro team and still feel a part of the action. People in this city have been doing it for years. Find a footy bar - Turn your local into a footy bar - go and watch real soccer. Fuck the politics and actually watch the sport.
TFC was suppose to be the local footy fix for us. Unfortunately they have turned out to be a bust - Largely and mainly due to the team management, but not excluding the supporters themselves.
http://www.thestar.com/news/investig...orts-charities
Not juse MLSE, but yep. No need to applaud it really.“The smart money isn’t giving through sports foundations (like Team Up) to achieve impact,” says Kate Bahen, managing director of Charity Intelligence Canada, a non-profit organization that analyzes charity finances. “(MLSE) is a massive hockey machine. But to present Team Up as experts in community development is a stretch.”
The CSA needs to make WC's to succeed and get fans out. There's no other way. Works out great for us V's.
I actually think Tom Anselmi may have been given enough rope to hang himself (figuratively speaking). If the Leafs continue to suck, he won't be able to hide like he has with TFC, The profile is just so huge. Bogers may have majorily screwed up by choosing him, but they need playoff content to fill their air waves, and he will be held responsible if he doesn't deliver. It's not like with Teachers where you can offset the losses with the lack of playoffs with condo profits and the like. They need winning teams more than they need the bottom-line profits from ML$E.
Personally, I think they should have looked at AEG to hire good executive talent. They are a company very much in character like ML$E, except that they are well-run. The LA Kings and the LA Galaxy are models of how to run "big city" teams.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 09-05-2012 at 10:11 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Not sure about LA Galaxy. Can't sell out their stadium. Ticket prices are pretty damn high. Not to mention ridiculous friendlies galore
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Doesn't matter. You don't make it rich putting fans in the seats, you make it rich by doing this....
Today the LA Galaxy announced their own separation from Fox, to the tune of ten years at $55 million
Same here.
I'm going to look at this from a positive side (ducks for gunshots).
With Dinglenuts at the top now he hopefully will be forced to follow suite with the Leafs and Raptors sub-organizations that have full on Presidents THAT KNOW A GREAT DEAL ABOUT THE DAMN SPORT HAND PICKED AS A VERY GOOD AUTHORITY, FROM THE DAMN LEAGUE THEY PLAY IN. So, having said that, we COULD, be looking at the insertion of a MLS minded president for TFC soon.
Dinglenuts has no idea about TFC and football in general. He recognized that and tried to bring in what he was fed as "good choices". Year after year ML$E spent good money on bringing in "good choices" who year after year completely rebuilt the organization. TFC's explosion in popularity in the first few years meant instant partial success was mandatory, however the trend of failure and rebuild continued. Time for the long ball - I can appreciate that the whole experiment with bringing in a world football mind as a consultant that recommended a highly skilled, long term philosophical decision that failed on epic proportions(aka Winter/BDK "system"), but ML$E did spend money to try it. Now we're at the lowest point in history. It's a pretty good time to bring in that president and anything they do will be gold.
ML$E needs to reset the prices on a few of their sub-organizations. For the first time in a long time ML$E had to actually run advertisements to sell out all their top income boxes for the all mighty Leafs! Raptors have been working very hard at just selling season tickets. And TFC will be in trouble next year if they don't pull the prices back. I have mixed feelings on if this will happen. On the one hand, there is a new owner and that's a good time for this to happen. Profits of ML$E as a whole don't matter as much to Belgers as long as Belgers can significantly increase their MEDIA portions broadcasting/reporting profits that realistically could make ML$E's prior profits look like chump change. HOWEVER, Dinglenuts is promoted not fired..my effing god....ooops sorry trying to stay positive here.
So there MAY be hope here.
(still doesn't stop me from trying to make a "who promotes incompetence? We do." (a few stone cutters logos)
Folks, just a general comment. The state of TFC/MLSE is so depressing, especially now and over many years in the past. The decision for supporters RE how to respond is extremely difficult. It's both a very personal decision, and a very communal issue: renewing seasons or not; downgrading seats; buying single-game tickets or not; protests/banners etc; watching on TV or on a free stream; following/supporting another team or not; supporting the Academy etc etc etc. Let's try to not attack each other on here -- not that it's really happened yet, but the potential is very much there, also considering other recent threads.
For anyone thinking "you just aren't real supporters" and so on -- consider that those that read this board, or post here, are a very select few who really do care, even if they're totally pissed off at the moment (or even if they're somehow still OK with what's happening & think this club & management team can turn things around). For every person on here, there are hundreds that just don't care, have given up or lost interest, don't say a peep publicly and are just gone. Or show up blindly at every home game, have some beers & crack some jokes while surfing their smart phones, and not really care either.
TFC is so small compared to the Leafs and Raptors that it wouldn't surprise me if they don't get their own President.
It also wouldn't surprise me if that after Mariner fails, he becomes President of TFC and a new coach is hired.
I still would bet money on Paul Beirne getting a stronger role at TFC.
Just one more point. I haven't been this depressed as a soccer supporter since being in the stadium in Montreal and watching Canada lose to Honduras in that tragic World Cup Qualifier. Part of sport is selling hope to the fans. I've lost all hope for TFC.
errm... average home attendance looks to be 23k based on the wiki page. That also should take into account they are not allowed to use the full stadium capacity on weeknights during the school year since it is on a university campus. They do perfectly fine IMO, and their brand is unmatched in the league.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I'm not taking anymore abuse myself. Been thinking about not renewing my STH's for a while now. This may be the tipping point.
The move yesterday is one in a long line that shows they just don't give a fuck. All they will do is FREEZE STH prices to try to appease you, but they won't make any further effort.
Status quo is the name of the game. Until the stadium starts looking like the CCL games more often and season ticket renewals plunge expect the same tune.
There was a meeting a few weeks ago with Supporters which was supposed to be about 'improving support'. It turned out to be mostly a waste of time because very few people at the table (FO and Supporters included) actually were interested in improving things. Small 'tweaks' were discussed, but nothing that will actually make a difference.
TFC has to be prepared to make drastic changes. That includes on the field, in the FO and in the stands. That's the only way things will get better.
Montreal gets a reduction in STH prices and a GA Supporter stand, and we continue to keep getting shat on.
As Boban said above me "The more things change, the more they stay the same".
The situation is still salvageable IF:
-MLSE hires a qualified president from outside the organization to oversee football operations
-TFC ticket prices are discounted to 2007 levels across the board
If these measures are not taken soon, I would be surpised if STH renewals exceed 7000 next season.
As for me, I will renew because I still love the badge and my tickets are still a great deal at the current price point. However, I hope MLSE realizes that my stance is reflective of an extreme minority of TFC supporters in this city.
It's a long, uphill climb. This isn't the same MLS as 2006. You can see the better organizations starting to emerge and pulling away from the pack. Turning this around and being anything more than a mid-table team in this league is getting harder everyday.
Of course, just like in the beginning we were simply happy to have a team, maybe after all these years at the bottom they're counting on us being happy to be just mid-table.
God help us ..if PB ,PM, or EC get a bigger role..jezzzz
I agree. I mentioned in a previous thread that even if a new president is hired and prices are scaled back, it will take at least a few consecutive winning seasons to reinvigorate the fan base to what it once was.
My point was that those measures need to be taken just to prevent the franchise from becoming an afterthought in this town.
according to peter principle thought he had reached his peak... http://www.buzzflash.com/burns/04/11/bur04144.html
This club i think is going to be to hard to continue to buy Season ticket for any more. The fact that i see this about Tom Anselmi "His passion for our teams and our fans makes Tom the perfect choice as President and COO of this great organization" its just discgusting. Bell and Rogers at this moment seem to not have a clue just like MLSE didn't have a clue how to connect with fans and how to create a winning team. These people should of been fired not kept around and praised for there achievements of last place finnishes and increase ticket prices while decrease attendence. Connection with the fans could not be any worse. Other teams like Portland or Seattle have connection with there fans and working with fans to create things like this:
and created a friendship with them and people that understand supporters culture. while TFC head office have been making it harder for fans to come in with flags they have even lost our banners and flags in the passed. Then while other teams have gotten cheap or even free ticekts for friendlies against International clubs TFC fans have paid an arm and a leg. We have higher prices then most teams and yet the other teams have actually played better then us (well every team in the league is better then us). We have not been rewarded for a loyalty as season ticket holders at all. I pretty much feal like i have been spat on by this club. I feal no connection with this organization and they praise this iddiot, this is a joke.
Last edited by james; 09-05-2012 at 01:26 PM.
Not sure what those banners have to do with Portland FO. They allowed them in and help install hoists I suppose but the TA first had to commit to a project that needed that. We've never approached them on that kind of co-operation that I am aware of.Connection with the fans could not be any worse. Other teams like Portland or Seattle have connection with there fans and working with fans to create things like this:
and created a friendship with them and people that understand supporters culture. while TFC head office have been making it harder for fans to come in with flags they have even lost our banners and flags in the passed. Then while other teams have gotten cheap or even free ticekts for friendlies against International clubs TFC fans have paid an arm and a leg. We have higher prices then most teams and yet the other teams have actually played better then us (well every team in the league is better then us). We have not been rewarded for a loyalty as season ticket holders at all. I pretty much feal like i have been spat on by this club. I feal no connection with this organization and they praise this iddiot, this is a joke.
Dichio banner wasn't a problem. CCL neither. The time of the bad banner time restraints are over for us. For now, anyway.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
any chance we could do a MLSE version of that Seattle 'decades of dominance' ?
it would say 'Decades of Defacation' and that big head behind the goal would be Anselmi.
Last edited by TOBOR !; 09-05-2012 at 02:40 PM.
i don't really know exactly where i was going with the banners, i guess just showing that while portland and Seattle were getting help from front office installing hoists to make these big banner tifos work, the security at BMO field was telling me i couldn't bring my flag into the stadium because flags had to be in the stadium 30minutes before kickoff and it was now 20mins before kickoff (at 1 point i think it was flags 45mins before kicloff). And why can we still to this day not take our flags through our normal gate 3 like we use to, does anyone seem to understand there reasoning why we can't????
Last edited by james; 09-05-2012 at 03:18 PM.
love it!
![[NBF]'s Avatar](image.php?s=6df1ba4c7571122de23497fe8e42ab86&u=1574&dateline=1515553264 "[NBF]'s Avatar")
I think he's more of a fan of Parma in the 90's and the Parmalat company. I think in the end he wants his team to imulate that relationship that the team had with the company and the publicity of having your company on the team shirt being shown accross North America and beyond.
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