Worst Post-Mo Coach of TFC?

[Oldtimer]

No question that Mo was the worst coach of TFC.
Record scoreless streak, 20% win rate, and a terrible style of play.

Next two him, who has been the worst coach of TFC?

[TFC07]

I would say Paul Mariner. He is pretty much another Mo for me except he won more games. They both were liars who didn't have a vision and adopt a backward soccer. Both of them failed to bring in a quality defender while giving us a bad rep in the league for treating players badly.

[brad]

Some interesting data from this article, pre-Mariner though - http://www.wakingthered.com/2012/6/1...to-fcs-coaches

If you rank the coaches by just winning percentage they go as follows:
Chris Cummins - 38.71
Preki - 34.38
John Carver - 30.56
Nick Dasovic - 30.00
Aron Winter - 28.13
Mo Johnston - 20.00

By % of matches in which they collected point you get a slightly different look:
Preki - 66
Chris Cummins - 65
Aron Winter - 61
Nick Dasovic - 60
John Carver - 58
Mo Johnston - 43

Most important of all though is the points per game in charge:
Chris Cummins - 1.42
Preki - 1.34
Nick Dasovic - 1.20
John Carver - 1.19
Aron Winter - 1.17
Mo Johnston - 0.83

Prekiball was painful to watch - but it was effective.

The numbers suprise me a bit with Cummins coming out on top across the board. And that was with MoJo meddling with the team selection.

[__wowza]

i maintain that one of the biggest mistakes preki ever made was splitting our attention between the CCL and the league. winter had it right, we were out of the league so lets play for the CCL, preki thought he could do both and we ended up dropping a game to a team that had an announced attendance of under 500!!

[drexel10]

Some interesting data from this article, pre-Mariner though - http://www.wakingthered.com/2012/6/1...to-fcs-coaches



Prekiball was painful to watch - but it was effective.

The numbers suprise me a bit with Cummins coming out on top across the board. And that was with MoJo meddling with the team selection.

Cummins worked with the most talent we have ever had on this team.

[T-boy]

I was 50/50 between Preki and Winter. I picked Winter as he broke the all time losing record in the MLS. That's pretty bad!

But apparently, for the rest of you, results have nothing to do with this poll! I feel that even if Mariner won every game from now on, he would still be hated just because he doesn't play Winter's "beautiful aesthetically pleasing passing football".

[Greatest Ripoff]

I was 50/50 between Preki and Winter. I picked Winter as he broke the all time losing record in the MLS. That's pretty bad!

But apparently, for the rest of you, results have nothing to do with this poll! I feel that even if Mariner won every game from now on, he would still be hated just because he doesn't play Winter's "beautiful aesthetically pleasing passing football".

Winter also wont two Voyageur's Cups and took the team to the semi final of the Champions League. Better than any other coach could do.

[Ageroo]

Winter also wont two Voyageur's Cups and took the team to the semi final of the Champions League. Better than any other coach could do.

This is why I didn't vote for Winter....I agree he had a horrible record, but in games that actually meant something he coached this team well.....too bad that league games didn't mean that much to him

[T-boy]

Winter also wont two Voyageur's Cups and took the team to the semi final of the Champions League. Better than any other coach could do.

It depends how much importance you place on cups really. I don't place much importance at all. You think a team like Birmingham would have prefered to go through to the Europa Cup final yet be relegated to the championship?

It's more of a north american mentality to put importance on the cups. TFC were pathetic in the league under Winter, and that's where we will be judged in the end of the day. Just like that Birmingham team.

[Oldtimer]

But apparently, for the rest of you, results have nothing to do with this poll! I feel that even if Mariner won every game from now on, he would still be hated just because he doesn't play Winter's "beautiful aesthetically pleasing passing football".

Mariner's results are edging down to Winter's record over 2 seasons, and will soon be worse, so yes results do matter.

... and I wouldn't worry about the possibility of Mariner winning every game from here on in.

[T-boy]

Mariner's results are edging down to Winter's and will soon be worse, so yes results do matter.

... and I wouldn't worry about the possibility of Mariner winning every game from here on in.

It really is a case on this board that if you don't agree with everybody else, you are laughed at, made fun of, and eventually insulted. I'm out of here right now. I'm not going to take being bullied just because I don't agree with the masses.

[Oldtimer]

It really is a case on this board that if you don't agree with everybody else, you are laughed at, made fun of, and eventually insulted. I'm out of here right now. I'm not going to take being bullied just because I don't agree with the masses.

If you consider being confronted with facts bullying, I'm sorry I can't do anything for you. I just can't lie and pretend that everything is a-ok...

and that's sad for me because I'm generally an optimistic guy. Anyone who's followed my postings over the years would agree.

[[NBF]]

I would say Paul Mariner. He is pretty much another Mo for me except he won more games. They both were liars who didn't have a vision and adopt a backward soccer. Both of them failed to bring in a quality defender while giving us a bad rep in the league for treating players badly.

Mo Johnston's first three years were not that bad considering we were getting more points every year and our goal difference every year was better than the first year when TFC had a minus 24 goal difference.

Coach	Year	Points	GP	Wins	Losses	Ties	GF	GA	G.D.	Overall	MLS Draft
Johnston	2007	25	30	6	17	7	25	49	-24	13/13	M.Edu, A.Boyens
Carver	2008	35	30	9	13	8	34	43	-9	12/14	J.James, P.Phelan
Carver/Cummins	2009	39	30	10	11	9	37	46	-9	12/15	S.Cronin, S.Frei, O.B.White
Preki/Dasovic	2010	35	30	9	13	8	33	41	-8	11/16	No 1st Rounder
Winter	2011	33	34	6	13	15	36	59	-23	16/18	No 1st Rounder
Winter/Mariner	2012	21	26	5	15	6	29	46	-17	19/19	L.Silva, A. Maund

Horrible Planning

The last three years have been a complete rebuilding for nothing. The only productive recruiter for talent, the MLS Draft, has been completely ignored and we've suffered for it. IMO, TFC has decided to become something different than the rest of MLS and failed. Where the rest of the MLS teams have utilized the MLS Draft to develop their football teams TFC has run away from it in order to focus on international recruitment and youth development.

So I'm going to say the obvious. TFC failed to recruit players (that would play for a salary within the cap). The scouting system failed.

So who is the worst head coach?

Aron Winter is the worst head coach we've ever had because he was brought in with no experience in coaching or recruiting to rebuild a squad that was decimated by the previous head coach and technical director. He was given the keys to everything but the Brazil scouting report. So he had no support from the start. He was hired to fix something that he had no experience in fixing, but his key attribute was his name sake which if he had used to find 11 players to play together he would have been able save his job. Then again he was not a scout.

Chris Cummins on the other hand was the best head coach we've ever had with no experience in coaching or recruiting, but the team was already put in place to do well in MLS and it had a proven goal scorer.

So who is the worst example of a head coach?

Paul Mariner, IDK whats worse or depressing than watching a guy in shorts jumping around the sidelines like he just scored a goal with a shout. It says he doesnt have the right players in place to grasp the match tactics. It might also indicate that he has weak tactical plans that are immidiately dismissed by the players during the game or he has weak communication skills when it comes to explaining what he wants from the players. You could also say that he doesnt have the full cooperation of all the players so he's playing favorites and screaming at others during the game in order to shame them into playing for him. Either way he is not the worse head coach, but the saddest example of a head coach IMO.

[Greatest Ripoff]

It depends how much importance you place on cups really. I don't place much importance at all. You think a team like Birmingham would have prefered to go through to the Europa Cup final yet be relegated to the championship?

It's more of a north american mentality to put importance on the cups. TFC were pathetic in the league under Winter, and that's where we will be judged in the end of the day. Just like that Birmingham team.

WTF fuck are you talking about? It's more of North American thing? Do you think teams in europe don't place an importance on the Champions League? Was it not more important to win the Champions League rather than the league for Chelsea last year? Cups competitions are a foreign concept to North America and no one here gives a fuck about it. Look at the attendance to prove that.

TFC are utter shit un Mariner but for some reason you love him.

[Oldtimer]

Mo Johnston's first three years were not that bad considering

That's Mo as GM. His one year as a coach was the worst TFC ever was.

[jabbronies]

I voted Mariner as worst. The football we are playing is unwatchable and we are still loosing points the same way we were under Winter.
There is no future with this style of play.
At least under Winter the games were watchable.

CC and John Carver are still 1-2 IMO
Preki and Winter follow by Daso and pulling up the rear are PM and MOJO

[mdc 77]

They are all horrible. We haven't had one good coach. This is comparing which shite smells better. I know this doesn't add to the "discussion" but really....Why even ask this question? Its just depressing.

[mdc 77]

Also do people not remember what we looked like when Winter was coach? Games were more watchable? I have to say that our games under Winter might have been the worst football we have ever played, if you think otherwise you were believing what you were sold about total football and playing like Ajax. In love with some romantic idea, blinded by it. We looked horrible and never played possesion football. I puzzled by what i read on this board now days.

rant over.

[spark]

Also do people not remember what we looked like when Winter was coach? Games were more watchable? I have to say that our games under Winter might have been the worst football we have ever played, if you think otherwise you were believing what you were sold about total football and playing like Ajax. In love with some romantic idea, blinded by it. We looked horrible and never played possesion football. I puzzled by what i read on this board now days.

rant over.

I will definitely agree until Koevs and Frings came on board it was some of the worst games we've ever seen (or I've ever seen haha).

I'm curious how Daso gets any knocks - he only got a few games and after Preki's streak, for me, was a breath of fresh air. I thought it was funny how TFC branded Winter/4-3-3 this "attacking-branded" whatever, when IMO Daso brought that in his last few games. He was the one who put Nicholas Lindsay out there and was one of the few bright moments, player-wise, I thought in 2010. The game away in Seattle was great to watch as was the last game where we won in DC (don't think we had before?).

[ryan]

Mariner. He sabotaged Winter, who while wasn't the right manager, actually had this shit show going the right way...and now it's gone.


/suicide

[[NBF]]

Mariner. He sabotaged Winter, who while wasn't the right manager, actually had this shit show going the right way...and now it's gone.


/suicide

I hope you dont mean that.....

[Auzzy]

I can't vote on this poll. Every TFC coach is/was bad in different ways. All of them also had to deal with varying levels of baggage left over from the previous guy; plus lack of support & resources in important areas; plus meddling; plus lack of a long-term vision; etc. I find it impossible to separate all that.

[Suds]

To think we had Newcastle's number two in our management team and TFC fucked that up as well.

Fuck this club is such a shit show!

[mdc 77]

Mariner. He sabotaged Winter, who while wasn't the right manager, actually had this shit show going the right way...and now it's gone.


/suicide

How can you say that? Winter followed up a positive cl run with the worse start in MLS history??? That can't be the right way.

[leafsman]

i voted mariner, team plays a shit boring style and still loses. He also plays half the team out of position so he wins this easily.

[ryan]

I hope you dont mean that.....

Figuratively. My care about this club is about to hang itself. I never realized I wanted a footie club in my own city, then it fell in my lap and realized how great this could be. This tho? This is dumb. This isn't fun. This isn't worth the money by a long shot. They say shit, but don't actually show it. They want money and everything else is bullshit.

Apathy is about to kick in and that'll be it. I'm trying to fight it, but it's going to win.

How can you say that? Winter followed up a positive cl run with the worse start in MLS history??? That can't be the right way.

There were stats posted on the MLS website near the end of that 9 game stretch. We lead the league, by a good %, in goals against from unlikely goal scoring spots. We generated a ton of chances, that were almost all missed.

That's not on the manager, that's on the players.

They executed half of that shit, some of those tough goals miss. We're probably in a playoff spot after 9 matches instead of 0-9. It was a terribly bad and unlucky run. Do you pin Frings foolish give away vs Chicago on the coach? I don't care that he's at CB, the guy knows how to play fucking football.


It's bloody foolish to look at that 0-9 run and just ignore the things that actually happened. He may not have been the right coach, but we were playing the right fucking game. He ended the 2011 season well (and lets be fair, he only had his roster once the DP's came to town, the 1st half of 2011 wasn't his team and his plan) and we played in the CCL well. That's what Winter's team was. That was our quality and who we were. The 0-9 run was a bad run with some bad luck. We could win the way were playing, that was proven. We could play against teams above our skill in big competition, we proved that too. That CCL run wasn't fluke, we caught a break with the thunderstrom crap, but we played damn well throughout that competition.


0-9 doesn't tell the story of those 9 games. It doesn't tell you the fitness of Koevermans. It doesn't tell you any of it.



But whatever right? All that matters is results. Look at these fucking results now boys. Oh wait, we're still fucking losing and now we're playing boring, terrible football getting thrashed by teams we could hang with. Brilliant.

[Couchy81]

Mariner followed by Preki.

[trane]

Winter was not getting results, and there was no real indication that he ever would. I agree that the team became better in aspects of the game under him, but there was always something lacking.

Mariner went back to the basic, which as I said was OK, for a while, but clearly the team has not grown since, and this is what we get. Shit. Again I would have fired Mariner, and found a better manager to take us down the road already started by Winter. ( But that seems to be too simple for MLSE)What kills me is that right now, not only have we lost season 6, there is no reason to think that season 7 will be any different. So I suggest to the supporters that they start putting pressure on the club, while there still is a club, because two or three more seasons of the same, and we may not have one.

[London]

ill say this, dasovic is the closest any coach has come to getting his head punched by a supporter LOL

[ryan]

Winter was not getting results, and there was no real indication that he ever would. I agree that the team became better in aspects of the game under him, but there was always something lacking.

Mariner went back to the basic, which as I said was OK, for a while, but clearly the team has not grown since, and this is what we get. Shit. Again I would have fired Mariner, and found a better manager to take us down the road already started by Winter. ( But that seems to be too simple for MLSE)What kills me is that right now, not only have we lost season 6, there is no reason to think that season 7 will be any different. So I suggest to the supporters that they start putting pressure on the club, while there still is a club, because two or three more seasons of the same, and we may not have one.

You believe MLS would abandon Toronto? I'm doubtful. I think they would find another owner and I believe one could be found. This team can make bank if not run by this clown show.