Who should be the next head coach of TFC?

[Fort York Redcoat]

They aren't in the PDL, they are in USL Pro, one level above that and one level below NASL.

While it might be a bit of gamble to go for a coach who has been working at the USL Pro level, is it really much below the level of NASL? Not really.

Will ownership take the club up to NASL now is my question. I think they should. They want an MLS franchise for Orlando and have a decent average crowd base of over 5k per match. Take them up a level!

Holy Crap following this game here is like trying to grab eels.

Yes, my mistake was when they got 3rd place in 2010 it was in the USSF D2 which is better than PDL. I can't wait till they find a league name and structure to agree on!

My question would be if they even need to go up a level to apply for MLS? Probably not legally and I know it would be sensible but it's not really mandatory to go through a promotion so..

I mean isn't NASL just the haves trying to distance themselves from have nots? I like the fact there's some distinction in level of play of money involved but they've GOT to grow that NASL level quick. It's like a CFL there.

[Pookie]

Holy Crap following this game here is like trying to grab eels.

I'm not an expert Eel Grabber but the ones that I've seen at the Aquariums hang out in the rocks and generally don't move. Sort of like the sloths of the sea. Now perhaps they have some kind of hidden "stealth gear" but I'm pretty sure that with my nearly 40 year old dexterity, I could grab one of them without much fuss. Even after a couple of Innis and Gunns, I'll bet that I could grab one of those stationary ones... even wrassle one if I had to.

How many eels are you grabbing anyways?

[SoccMan]

It does not matter until everyone involved with TFC from the receptionist to Anselmi is gone. Clean house in the front office, and yes you included MR. Paul Bernie, everybody fired, bring some fresh people and start again. This is a hopeless situation right now, a new coach only after all of the present staff is gone. TFC right now is one of the worst pro sports organization in North America in all of sports!

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm not an expert Eel Grabber but the ones that I've seen at the Aquariums hang out in the rocks and generally don't move. Sort of like the sloths of the sea. Now perhaps they have some kind of hidden "stealth gear" but I'm pretty sure that with my nearly 40 year old dexterity, I could grab one of them without much fuss. Even after a couple of Innis and Gunns, I'll bet that I could grab one of those stationary ones... even wrassle one if I had to.

How many eels are you grabbing anyways?

About a dozen? One for every name change of the league? Maybe I'm doing it with too much Innis and Gunn?



Great now i'm thirsty. Good taste btw.

Anyway, we should all try and keep up with the lower leagues to try and grow the game. No matter what congers get in the way.

[Blizzard]

I'm not an expert Eel Grabber but the ones that I've seen at the Aquariums hang out in the rocks and generally don't move. Sort of like the sloths of the sea. Now perhaps they have some kind of hidden "stealth gear" but I'm pretty sure that with my nearly 40 year old dexterity, I could grab one of them without much fuss. Even after a couple of Innis and Gunns, I'll bet that I could grab one of those stationary ones... even wrassle one if I had to.

How many eels are you grabbing anyways?

This is getting tooo Fruedian.

[Gazza]

Self preservation is the norm around TFC, if any of these coaches like Brennan, Dichio, Bent understand that they should turn down any offers. I think Rongen will not budge or should budge from the security of the TFCA.

Now, if you want a reliable head coach/director of football you gotta look at Paul Peschisolido and his wife Karen Brady, but I think it would take alot of money to move an entire football family.

My second choice would be John Spencer who was let go by the Timbers. Hes the brother-in-law of Billy Davies of most recently Nottingham Forrest. So he has some good connections. Portland is nothing like Toronto so maybe he can bring in some talent from abroad.

The Brady's have a Muskoka summer home.

[nonc]

Mariner not going anywhere any time soon so not much point in talking about the next coach.


John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro So for those of you calling for Mariner to be fired and a new coach brought in either now or for start of next season, it won't happen.

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15m John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro
... To stabilize team this season, bring in a few more players in off-season and let him really make the club his own next year.

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16m John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro
Biggest thing I took away from our chat was Mariner is here to stay. They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time..

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17m John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro
... Order to get to know me and hear my take on things.

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18m John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro
Just finished meeting with Anselmi. Didn't really interview him, it was more of a chat. Said he'd been meaning to invite me to lunch in...

Anselmi admits to not knowing anything about soccer, so i'm not sure why he'd even bother humouring us with comments like "we're pleased with the direction he's taking the team."

John Molinaro just tweeted that he spoke with Anselmi.

Essentially Paul Mariner isn't going anywhere.

Of course not, he signed an extension back in the spring.

Molinaro, like Kurtis Larson, has been going on about giving Mariner time.

his extension wouldn't have been for Head Coach though i don't think? i'm pretty sure they could just demote him into oblivion and he could either take it or walk, that seems ideal but unrealistic.

[OgtheDim]

Pesch and Brady would cost as much per year as JDG. That and we need a pres who knows MLS>

[PopePouri]

Mariner.

[spe18]

What about Sir Alex Ferguson?

[Soccer Mom]

I think we should look for proven talent. Maybe like a Rafa Benitez who is umemployed.

[Canary10]

"They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time.."

This is the quote that pisses me off more than anything else. Anselmi said at my town hall last year they like the direction the team is going, are really committed to the possession game, they're going to give Winter the time to pull it off, blah, blah, blah. Either that was a complete bald faced lie to the fans or he really is so clueless as to not know the current direction is complete a complete 180 from what they said last year. No one should trust a single word that comes out of his mouth. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if he legitimately doesn't know he's done a complete about-face. More reason he shouldn't be near the team.

[v00d00daddy]

"They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time.."

This is the quote that pisses me off more than anything else. Anselmi said at my town hall last year they like the direction the team is going, are really committed to the possession game, they're going to give Winter the time to pull it off, blah, blah, blah. Either that was a complete bald faced lie to the fans or he really is so clueless as to not know the current direction is complete a complete 180 from what they said last year. No one should trust a single word that comes out of his mouth. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if he legitimately doesn't know he's done a complete about-face. More reason he shouldn't be near the team.

They know exactly what they've said in the past and they know that their actions are the complete opposite of what they said they'd do. (by they I mean Anselmi and Mariner)

Anselmi is no fool. The only fools are us for trying to concoct reasons to explain away out and out lies.

It's one thing to argue about tactics and player selection but to try and argue in favour of men who say one thing and do the complete opposite is tantamount to asking to be kicked in the balls and then saying "please sir may I have some more"

Mariner should be very worried about JMOs Convo with Anselmi because all the utter bullshit that he fed molinaro seems eerily similar to what Anselmi said about Winter. (happy about direction of the club...he's not going anywhere)

[Canary10]

They know exactly what they've said in the past and they know that their actions are the complete opposite of what they said they'd do. (by they I mean Anselmi and Mariner)

Anselmi is no fool. The only fools are us for trying to concoct reasons to explain away out and out lies.

It's one thing to argue about tactics and player selection but to try and argue in favour of men who say one thing and do the complete opposite is tantamount to asking to be kicked in the balls and then saying "please sir may I have some more"

Mariner should be very worried about JMOs Convo with Anselmi because all the utter bullshit that he fed molinaro seems eerily similar to what Anselmi said about Winter. (happy about direction of the club...he's not going anywhere)

I'm not sure I give him that much credit....

At any rate, we were clearly fed a total lie and he's doing the same now. I agree, Mariner ought to be worried. I actually digitally taped my town hall, I'm going to go back and see if I can find Anselmi saying this.

[London]

i guess improving on 1 win is an improvment

[T-boy]

"They're pleased with direction he's taken team and will be given time.."

This is the quote that pisses me off more than anything else. Anselmi said at my town hall last year they like the direction the team is going, are really committed to the possession game, they're going to give Winter the time to pull it off, blah, blah, blah. Either that was a complete bald faced lie to the fans or he really is so clueless as to not know the current direction is complete a complete 180 from what they said last year. No one should trust a single word that comes out of his mouth. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if he legitimately doesn't know he's done a complete about-face. More reason he shouldn't be near the team.

I don't see where he's lieing, actually! Last season we WERE going in the right direction under Winter. The team WERE improving and the play WAS improving. So, at the town hall, he definitely wasn't lieing! But then Winter and his team took a massive step backwards and lost 9 league games in a row and created a league record low! That is where you lose faith, and I don't blame Anselmi.

And then right now, Mariner HAS had a positive affect on results. It may OR may not be a "new coach bump". But at this moment, there is no reason not to give Mariner time to see what he can do. I'm SURE that if Mariner's team lost all the remaining games this season, Anselmi would probably then change again, and it would be rightfully so. But if Mariner gets some positive results the rest of the season, there is no reason in the world not to keep him to next season and give him a whole off season to see what he can do.

[Canary10]

I don't see where he's lieing, actually! Last season we WERE going in the right direction under Winter. The team WERE improving and the play WAS improving. So, at the town hall, he definitely wasn't lieing! But then Winter and his team took a massive step backwards and lost 9 league games in a row and created a league record low! That is where you lose faith, and I don't blame Anselmi.

And then right now, Mariner HAS had a positive affect on results. It may OR may not be a "new coach bump". But at this moment, there is no reason not to give Mariner time to see what he can do. I'm SURE that if Mariner's team lost all the remaining games this season, Anselmi would probably then change again, and it would be rightfully so. But if Mariner gets some positive results the rest of the season, there is no reason in the world not to keep him to next season and give him a whole off season to see what he can do.

I think it may have been the "we're really committed to the possession game part."

As Groucho Marx once said, "those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

[v00d00daddy]

I don't see where he's lieing, actually! Last season we WERE going in the right direction under Winter. The team WERE improving and the play WAS improving. So, at the town hall, he definitely wasn't lieing! But then Winter and his team took a massive step backwards and lost 9 league games in a row and created a league record low! That is where you lose faith, and I don't blame Anselmi.

And then right now, Mariner HAS had a positive affect on results. It may OR may not be a "new coach bump". But at this moment, there is no reason not to give Mariner time to see what he can do. I'm SURE that if Mariner's team lost all the remaining games this season, Anselmi would probably then change again, and it would be rightfully so. But if Mariner gets some positive results the rest of the season, there is no reason in the world not to keep him to next season and give him a whole off season to see what he can do.

Out if curiosity...how do you feel about Mariner receiving a contract extension in May and then "helping out the strikers" during practice while Winter was still coach?

Also...what part of the teams failure under Winter do you think Mariner contributed to and do you think he too should have been let go?

[Dreadlocks]

Since the thread is about who should take over from Mariner IF he was let go, what about Harry Sinkgraven at FC Edmonton?

I don't think he's proven enough and can't build a case for him so I'm just throwing it out there.

[Fort York Redcoat]

there is no reason in the world not to keep him to next season and give him a whole off season to see what he can do.

He was brought in for immediate improvement. It's up to you if you can quantify his improvement as enough. I daresay you'd be alone to say he has.

Why give him time when he was part of the problem this year. I'd give someone with a vision time. He could still make an improvement on this teams record. That much I'll give him.

[Gazza]

I think we should look for proven talent. Maybe like a Rafa Benitez who is umemployed.

Fact.

[T-boy]

Out if curiosity...how do you feel about Mariner receiving a contract extension in May and then "helping out the strikers" during practice while Winter was still coach?

Also...what part of the teams failure under Winter do you think Mariner contributed to and do you think he too should have been let go?

Honestly - there's a lot of information we don't know about this. I can't really speculate. I don't think any of us here can. Mariner's contract may have been renewed for multiply reason's: money, type of contract, clauses in his contract, wording of contract. Lots of reason's why somebody's contract could be extended and changed.
And secondly we also don't really know Mariner's EXACT role under Winter. We "assume" he was asked to find players, and found the ones we all acquired. But we don't know that for sure. We don't know if Winter was actually medling. Or Mariner. Or Cochrane, or anybody else.

He was brought in for immediate improvement. It's up to you if you can quantify his improvement as enough. I daresay you'd be alone to say he has.

Why give him time when he was part of the problem this year. I'd give someone with a vision time. He could still make an improvement on this teams record. That much I'll give him.

Mariner was clearly brought in to change around results of a team that just broke an all time record low for the league. He HAS clearly got better results. It remains to be seen if it is just a "new coach bump" or whether he can have longer term success. TFC have not had good results in the last 5 games, but then again, we played Houston (unbeaten in 8 games prior to playing us), away at Chicago and Columbus (away games are always difficult in the MLS), and home games against Portland (with half our first team squad missing) and against top of the table Kansas. I would suggest that the majority of managers would struggle to get many points out of those games!

Personally, I would take substance over style for TFC right now (results over good looking football). I never "bought into" the Winter 4-3-3 Ajax system and never thought it would work in the MLS. So, I don't particularly care that Mariner has changed to a basic style of football - if the results are positive, they could play Preki style for all I care! When I was watching Oxford for years and years - and they were freefalling through the divisions - they had a new manager called Ian Atkins. The guy was a knob, and they played VERY defensive football. Everybody complained to start with - but is his first season he got into the play-offs (highest finish for Oxford in YEARS). Everybody loved Atkins just cos of the results. As TFC have NEVER had success, I would take a season of success playing Mariner-ball than a season struggling to adapt to a pretty style of play. I may be the only one to see it that way, but I will always give my opinion, even if nobody else agrees.

[Wull]

He was brought in for immediate improvement. It's up to you if you can quantify his improvement as enough. I daresay you'd be alone to say he has.

Why give him time when he was part of the problem this year. I'd give someone with a vision time. He could still make an improvement on this teams record. That much I'll give him.

This ^^^^

and I think it's time we, as a group, decided on a position to be taken regarding it. I dont care about meetings with the front office and wringing concessions for the supporters groups from them, I'd rather save my club before they completely kill it

[Rene Kingsriver]

I was willing to give Mariner a chance but in my experience a coach's touchline appearance and behaviour say a lot about them. Frankly Mariner looks a mess, Paul you're not going to get a game you don't need to be in shorts. His constant shouting of instructions and ridiculous antics are so embarrassing when you look at the likes of say Martin Rennie or Jessie Marsch who just look so much more calm, authoritative and downright classy. Obviously a coach needs to be animated at time during a game but not cartoonishly so. Having said all that he's still an improvement on Winter but that is feint praise indeed.
Anyway next coach? has to be someone with absolutely no British connections, I say this because there is so much baggage associated with being an English coach amongst TFC's non-Anglo fans that they won't get any benefit of the doubt whatsoever.

[Cashcleaner]

Said it a few times but Mariner at least deserves the same amount of leeway and time Winter had (2 transfer windows at least instead of Winter's three). Mariner may be a lot of things but it isn't his fault that the entire squad can't string together more than 3 passes this season and couldn't even manage to do it even when Winter was here.

But I see him sticking this year and next and then stepping back from the side lines and letting Dichio or Brennan take over. My prediction anyways.

Yep, I agree. Between Mariner and Winter, Mariner is the superior manager and deserves a similar time span to right things with the club. In all honesty, I don't know if it will work out, but we have to give him a fair chance to do so.

*sigh* There's just...there's just so much wrong with this club. I don't even know if anything can get turned around right now.

[Oldtimer]

Mariner was clearly brought in to change around results of a team that just broke an all time record low for the league. He HAS clearly got better results.

Yeah, he got better results than the worst results in the world. Still behind Portland, last place in MLS, about to get creamed in the CCL, no real prospects for improving enough to make the playoffs, dubious player selections, terrible strategy (like put on an extra defender when you are losing to defend the loss?), a lost dressing room (Mariner complains that the players don't listen to his strategy). Let's just be a little realistic here, his record is not going to be significantly better next year even if Bell/Rogers leave Anselmi and him in place instead of a thorough housecleaning like needs to be done.

In the meantime Thomas Rongen, an MLS Cup winning coach, who did wonders with American Samoa is always available and already under contract, and should already be coaching this team, but is left doing wonders with the academy instead of doing wonders with the first team.

[nonc]

I'm not a real proponent of Mariner, though I've kinda resigned myself to him being around next year. Can't see a change being made. There is an endless amount of criticism I could dictate towards him but it's been said in one form or another before. I just hope the 'positive' quotient increases...stuff like Lambe locked up at 60k/4 years, O'Dea signing, shoving minutes down Silva's throat.

Ultimately, my biggest desire is to see TFC sign even more Academy players for the bench. It saturates your starting XI and key subs with more of the budget and thus more talent. How can team directors around MLS complain about the cap with 80-90k (and higher) bench warmers everywhere. Signing Academy on the cheap and having them train with pros and play in the ever-improving reserve game system is win-win.

There is a difference between squad depth and squad parity. TFC have a history of squad parity on level with mediocrity, to put it kindly.

[ryan]

He was brought in for immediate improvement. It's up to you if you can quantify his improvement as enough. I daresay you'd be alone to say he has.

Why give him time when he was part of the problem this year. I'd give someone with a vision time. He could still make an improvement on this teams record. That much I'll give him.

Further to this, I believe this immediate improvement was for ticket sales, not footballing reasons. Making this hire even bloody worse.

I strongly believe he backstabbed Winter throughout the whole process, I'm a firm believer in the phrase "when there's smoke, there's fire" and MLSE is a freakin coal factory when it comes to smoke fumes. I wouldn't want this guy in charge, much like I don't want that Brennan on the bench either.

Neither one of these guys strike me as men of integrity and class, which I think are key requirements for the manager who can lead us from this disaster.

Of course any manager is dead to rights until all front office management is incinerated, but enough's been said about that. I think the OP is a terrible question, there's no manager that can survive under these circumstances.

[Canary10]

Meanwhile, unfortunately, rumour is Caleb Porter is going to Portland. He would be amongst my top choices to lead TFC.

[TOBOR !]

I was willing to give Mariner a chance but in my experience a coach's touchline appearance and behaviour say a lot about them. Frankly Mariner looks a mess, Paul you're not going to get a game you don't need to be in shorts. His constant shouting of instructions and ridiculous antics are so embarrassing when you look at the likes of say Martin Rennie or Jessie Marsch who just look so much more calm, authoritative and downright classy. Obviously a coach needs to be animated at time during a game but not cartoonishly so. Having said all that he's still an improvement on Winter but that is feint praise indeed.
Anyway next coach? has to be someone with absolutely no British connections, I say this because there is so much baggage associated with being an English coach amongst TFC's non-Anglo fans that they won't get any benefit of the doubt whatsoever.

The demeanor of a coach during a game is telling.

During the week you train, run drills, and prepare for the upcoming match.

On gameday, you watch it unfold, and make 'tweaks' as required.

Sit back, take notes, make adjustments as required, address any issues afterwards.

This man is a fool.