Is Toronto sport cursed? I don't even know anymore, how can we suck so badly for so long?
Could it really be a curse?
Is Toronto sport cursed? I don't even know anymore, how can we suck so badly for so long?
We're ranked number 4 in the world for best places to live.
Bad ownership.
No accountability for the upper management.
Look no further than the Teachers' Pension Plan (now the ex-owners of ML$E) for a reason.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
We're not cursed and there is no Santa Claus.Originally Posted by sky
We suck because people pay to see suck and it's easier (read: cheaper) to field suck than it is to field champions. It really isn't that hard but Toronto sports fans are loyal to a massive fault and it will never end because of it.
Maybe that's the rub though...
Incorrect. They don't scrimp here. They spend. Stupidly.
It's incompetent not miserly.
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 08-23-2012 at 07:43 AM.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
no curse......just inept management.......
If it was just MLSE teams that stunk, then I wouldn't consider it being a "curse" but the jays are great at sucking and Argonauts haven't won since 2004 so who knows???
Toronto sports fans are fans. Sure, we're loyal.
But Toronto sports teams are bad for the same reason Atom Egoyan movies are bad - they don't have to be good. They exist in a protected market and a few (politically-connected) people get very rich from them.
They would have to spend more to correct their ineptitude, no?
Just because they spend alot, doesn't make being a champion cheaper for them.
Agreed. There has to be an allowance for bad luck but that was worn out looooooooooong ago. Also, bad decisions that take more money just make them even worse decisions.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
The Jays have been extremely unlucky with injuries this year and play in the hyper-competative AL East versus the Yankee and Red Sox moneypockets. The Argos are actually leading the CFL East right now. Both teams are at least competitive. You can't say that about MLSE teams.
MLS is a league in which you can be, once and a while, a mid-table playoff team by accident. What does it say about our front office that we're always a bottom team, and we're actually trying?
Good question. I am really regretting carving that giant pentagram under center field now. In my defense, how was I to know sacrificing goats on a future socccer pitch would have such long lasting side effects?
The reason for Toronto being such a good place to live is the same reason why our sports teams are so pathetic. They put something in the water here. It makes everybody content and stagnant. Sports teams can't prosper for that reason.
It's not a curse. It's just that TFC were badly set up in the first place, and have been catching up ever since, rather than building on anything. You can't compare TFC with Montreal or the Whitecaps, as they were already soccer teams in existence. TFC were created from nothing, and created badly from nothing, and their first coach was poor and set the team up poorly. If a building is built badly on unsound ground, you are constantly trying to patch up the building rather than move forward.
I felt the need to bump this again in light of the latest news about Hassli. 3 injured DPs? Who has the Voodoo dolls? Who did we piss off that they sold their souls to ensure our misery?
Maybe hockey is to blame. Toronto or GTA is far too big a place for only one NHL team and that team cracks under the pressure they are put under and management lacks motivation to put together winning team as money keeps being made regardless. This hockey team is really what MLSE is about and that culture of ineptitude and entitlement just flows through the whole organization and inevitably to TFC too. If there was real competition for leafs, then that culture would be much harder to thrive.
Each team has a different specific reason that they suck. There is no easy answer and there are multiple factors that each prohibit players from performing.
It is far more complex than coaching or money. In hockey how can Burke win a cup in Anaheim, have success in Vancouver and not make the playoffs in Toronto?
I think the better question is why don't players perform here?
WARNING: long post. Skip if you don't like that.
WRT to the 3 injured DPs: probably a bit of bad luck, and definitely some management problems as well. The same is probably true for lots of situations in Toronto teams: a bit of bad luck exposes shaky management, and you hit a downward spiral.
For example:
- One reason there haven't often been 3 injured DPs in MLS, is that few teams have 3 DPs. It ties up so much cap space. Frings and especially Koevermans were pretty good signings, but there's been lots of poor decision-making with Toronto's DPs. The signings are often a hail-mary move: trying to improve a poor team & a bad record with a big signing for quick results; trying to rescue the next batch of season-ticket renewals; trying to save the manager's job for another season.
- Tied to the above: inserting multiple DPs into a team that isn't built well otherwise = over-reliance on those DPs. Look at LA: if some or all of their DPs are missing, the team isn't as good, but it still functions somewhat. Can't say the same for Toronto.
- TFC's DPs are all pretty old = injury-prone.
- Also tied to the over-reliance: over-playing the DPs, even when there's fatigue or nagging injuries. Frings' hip problems were apparently known for a couple of months, but he played the vast majority of the games until he was suddenly gone to Germany for treatment. Koevermans also played some games where he probably shouldn't have; or played a full 90 when he should have been subbed; but we didn't have a decent backup striker. I.e., possibly sacrificing the health of aging players for short-term results (that don't even come). And Mariner certainly isn't the first TFC coach to do that.
- Hassli in particular was known to be injury-prone in Vancouver, and had other issues so that he didn't play as much as you would hope for a DP. Therefore, no surprise that he's missing some games here. Another big signing (& loss of a draft pick) for "results now" that hasn't worked out.
- With Hassli, it's also the way he is played. He's not a typical big striker, who can deal well with long balls delivered to his head & hold up play for a long time. He's good for an occasional long-range wonder goal; but mostly has a soft touch & good passing. That would work well with a passing game on the ground, with some other decent midfielders or forwards near him -- not the way they usually play under Mariner. Our defense often plays very long balls in the rough direction of Hassli, surrounded by a set opposing defense that has lots of time to prepare for that long ball & put multiple players on him. Hassli then battles hard to still receive & hold the ball, putting him at risk of injury. Also, Hassli usually backs into the defenders while waiting for the pass to arrive, and puts his arms back, in an attempt to control the ball against the poor odds presented by ultra long ball. The refs see him initiating contact, and hesitate to call follow-up fouls by the opposing defense -- again risk of injury. (So it's partly Hassli's bad rep with the officials, and partly poor officiating, that leads to missed calls & a lack of protection for Hassli; but it's also partly due to the way he's forced to play in TFC's "system.") Similarly, Amerikwa doesn't always get fouls called in his favour when he initiates contact & backs into their defenders while waiting for long passes.
Anyone looking for an apt photo for their logo, I refer to this link on TFC's website. Check out the art picked for the "Best Soccer Party Ever." http://www.torontofc.ca/content/best-soccer-party-ever
Last edited by jloome; 09-19-2012 at 11:39 PM.
N o .
If only there was relegation in North American sports. I don't think we would have 1 team in Toronto in the first division if they did. And Toronto teams would actually have to give a shit to get back in the top division.
These are not reasons why Toronto teams lose but shows a few things i wish Toronto teams had.
Toronto Blue Jays need a new stadium, Sky Dome is to big and hollo. Would be nice to get an outdoor old fashion style 37-40k seatter. Problem tho Sky Dome was a hell of alot of money to build and built in 1989, otherwords seems the Sky Dome is to young to knock down already.
Argos need a CFL specific stadium 20-25k, not many gives a shit in Toronto about CFL but a small intimite stadiums might make some people want to attend a game.
Raptors no issue with stadium.
Leafs stadium should of been built with a few thousand more seats, there should of also been a 2nd NHL team in this city a long time ago. Leafs ticlets are stupid crazy money and only attended by business suits.
TFC need a renovation on there stadium, the current stadium was built on the cheap and after just a few season in MLS you can now see that it shows as other teams spend big money on new nice stadiums.
Last edited by james; 09-20-2012 at 02:22 AM.
Voodoo is one explanation but sometimes logic is another.
Hassli is injured because we traded for him despite his known and at the time, current, injury.
At least we know the answer to the question as to what is a first round MLS Superdraft pick worth to TFC: 491 minutes
I guess it is better than the 14 games we got from Nathan Sturgis in exchange for the pick that could have been Bruin, Saprong or Farfan. Incidentally, that's another logical reason as to why we don't win. Short term thinking.
Yes, Burke won a Cup with Anaheim, but even then, I wouldn't give him too much credit for that. He didn't really build that team from the bottom up, like what he's had to do here. Bryan Murray really built the foundation for that Cup winning team.
I like!
I feel the "curse" is being helped along by how many foreign players we are sending back to their countries with a bad taste in their mouth(not the water). I figure Germans, Dutch and Ecuadorians are joking about signing with TFC.
Whether it was pressure from MLSE or his own arrogance, I really think Burke's mistake was a win now mentality over a slower build (ie. the Kessel trade). That trade set the tone and has really set the team back, imo.
Last edited by narduch; 09-20-2012 at 07:29 AM.
hey, fuck the product on the field....."its a paaaaaaaarty maaaaan, those FC games!!"........
someone needs to forward the memo to our asshat FO that there's no party either anymore......nobody cares......
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