Soolsma was our best runner off the ball, it's not surprising Mariner not only wouldn't use him, but released him.Originally Posted by jloome
Soolsma was our best runner off the ball, it's not surprising Mariner not only wouldn't use him, but released him.
So when are you guys beginning to boycott the remaining home games this season?
+1 on all of that.
The transfer window was my main thing and I be frank it was a disappointment. I know someone is going to say "but we got x,y, and z... Plus we can do more later". Sounds like a re-run of every transfer window ever for TFC.
The sad fact is we needed the type of transfer impact that other teams had but we didn't. The league isn't static, everything moves.. Except us, always last out of the gate.. Always "going to do it later". Tell me teams like Columbus or seattle didn't improve their squads more than we improved ours .... And they aren't starting from as far back as we are.
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Yeah, I also don't buy that Mariner should stay solely for the sake of stability. He's an interim replacement to the actual, original manager. He was put in charge to simplify things and try to salvage some results this season, after the team hit historic lows - both on the ledger, and emotionally with the players.
If that panicky decision worked, then so be it - give him a chance. And for a little while, the team seemed to be somewhat responding to the change. However, that appears to have been short-lived - people adjusted to our route one tactics, Mariner continues to make mind-boggling decisions, and we are right back in the shit.
If Mariner was appointed as the result of careful thought and search, and I was under the impression some greater plan was being put in place on his watch, I'd be inclined to give him time - as I did Winter, last season. But again, that isn't the case here. Mariner was given the job after the heat on Winter became too much for Anselmi and Co., with the implicit goal of making wine out of garbage for the rest of the year. His erratic tactical decisions don't imply any sort of system whatsoever. We are furiously treading water right now - not learning to swim. And we are doing it poorly, to boot.
That's not a future. Change needs to start right at the top of TFC's hierarchy, and then filter down to the manager. Replace Anselmi with a soccer mind ("consult" on this question if you must), let that person decide on a new manager, and let that new manager bring in ALL of his own subordinates as he sees fit. On the business side, it's time to sincerely discuss ticket and concession prices.
The only, ONLY things this club has ever done unequivocally right, are exchange the fieldturf for natural grass, and loudly defend the stadium from potential CFL incursion. Everything else has been failure after failure. Alienating and abusing the enthusiastic fanbase. Ruining relationships with their own players and coaches through embarrassing professional malpractice. Burning through more players and managers than any other football team I've seen in the history of the world.
They took a franchise that started off with everything going for it - a decent, well-situated stadium and an overflowing fanbase - and managed to turn it into the most toxic sports experience I've ever been a part of.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Again, it seems like every post or reply I make these days is about neurology and how humans are largely subconscious pack animals, but that's because it's always relevant and rarely considered. It's against human nature to consider what other people might do without even thinking about it, or to remove "blame" from bad decision making as a consquence.
But it's also why Tom Anselmi may well not be fired. To a business hierarchy, he's a top dog, with profits out the wazoo. The fact that the product has now fallen apart, to his cronies, just means they need a new product. It doesn't diminish him in their eyes because of the profit that preceded it. Until they get clear indications that profit is gone (and we're not far off) he's not in trouble. They may well try to repair the team, but they'll do it the same way, AGAIN, that they've done up until now, which is leave Anselmi in charge, then put a "Manager" below him who isn't a field boss, like Winter, who they can blame when things go wrong.
They seem THEMSELVES as the golden goose, not the team. It's totally delusional, since Toronto's success was just the result of a long-fomenting passion for football in Canada that, influenced by the top level of the game, wouldn't settle for anything less than the best level we could get here. That's it. That's all. That's everything.
Some great points on here. I'd quote directly but punching away on my iPhone.
The comments about vision IMO are bang-on. If we had more of a consistent philosophy across the staff mariner coming in would be a true tweak. A different spin but in the same direction could be exactly what we need.
Unfortunately it appears winter and mariner are polar opposites, which has to bring up the question: why were they selected to work together in the first place?
This guy is now making major overhauls to he existing team.. Not conducive to the club or the short term results some want to see. It's just nutty how things are being handled
careful !! referring to other teams and the PROGRESS they are making will brand you as anti TFC with some here. Mind you, What Columbus has done has been impressive, those two guys up top ( Arrieta & Higuain) have been terrific...It is not only what they have produced thus far , BUT how they make all around them better ! ( Gaven)
Other than flipping the Houston and Columbus results you've been bang on so far.
Winter came in and was forced to follow a set out plan for his first pre-season, seeing the club travel across the Atlantic. Much like Barca staying in Europe, this year, and the benefit it has had on their improved sharpness, he would likely have preferred to go to a warmer climate in the States, somewhere. First half of the season, we managed a few results.. but, it was mostly an assessment of the players we had. Worth noting that the mantra from him was about how important JDG and especially DeRo would be, however, he never stood a chance at securing the latter.
After the massive changes to the roster, in a year we were rebuilding, we went on to some moderate success in the league and great success in the CCL. As a result, we had, without question, the most difficult scheduling to start this season -- going from zero (off-season) to 100. This, I feel, particularly affected our older guys -- even JDG; always important for older players to work harder than most, during the off-season, a la DeRo. I think there's more than a correlation, there, with our 0-9 start; travelling and mentally getting up for such huge games meant that it was always going to spread us thin, in league play and especially in the early goings. To be fair, we were insanely unlucky, during that horrid streak and could have taken, at least, four or five wins/ties; much like when I watch Barca, if to a lesser degree, I felt like we always looked like scoring and never panicked if we went down early -- more tense, for sure.. but, never feeling hopeless.
Some have said that Mariner enjoyed the usual new coach bump in results, but I think even THAT'S giving him too much credit; many were puzzled at the timing of things, when Winter was removed, as we were enjoying a great stretch of results and I feel like that only continued, once Mariner took the helm. *shudders* Even at our worst, in the league, with Winter, we were still making waves in our CCL play and raising the bar, as far as Canadian teams were concerned.
There's a legitimate gripe with Mariner for his player selection and shortened benches. I can imagine that, not only our academy grads., but some of our fringe players, as well, are probably putting their heads down, each week and working hard.. only to see, in the end, Mariner would rather have an undersized squad, than to involve any of them; that's got to be taking it's toll on the psychology of the lads. His exclusion of Avila and Kocic is just disgusting -- the list goes on. Some feel he's a good motivator -- I don't see it, really. He doesn't seem to have anything going for him. Why is this happening to us?!
.. see what I did, there? Started to panic, towards the end.
Mariner is a con man, he'll sell you shit and call it ice-cream smiling the whole time.
I am not saying Winter shouldn't have been let go but looking back at our team at the start of the season and we weren't an 0-9 team on paper. When you look back at those losses there were a lot of games lost on silly individual mistakes at the back. I felt like we would be playing well but just have random brain farts that would gift the other team 1-2 goals per game. I think that is what frustrated me the most. I mean had Mariner done his job and actually gotten us the right centre backs in the off-season that we desperately needed we probably would have had a better start. Instead we had to play guys like Harden because Winter honestly had no one else!
Then we ended up winning against Philadelphia, followed by getting the Amyway and that was the time to make the coaching change? Again, make the change but at least put in a guy to continue the trend of the team. The timing of Winter's firing was way off. And then the guy that comes in basically blows up the team. Has there ever been more changes made to a roster midseason?
Look at the roster we had in LA for the return leg (I'm not using the home leg as I think JDG and Soolsma were suspended?):
Kocic, Eckersley, Harden, Frings, Aceval, Morgan, Soolsma, de Guzman, Johnson, Koevermans, Plata
Yesterday we had (ok we do have some injuries?):
F. Hall, Maund, Eckersley, J. Hall, Emory, Odea, Silva, Dunfield, Amarikwa, Johnson, Wiedeman
Let's not forget Eckersley is out of position.
But seriously, which of these two teams would you have more faith in?
We should have stuck it out for the season and replaced Winter with someone who would continue the team's direction. By bringing in Mariner, not only did we blow up the team again but have only solidified our team's reputation of being horrible with the treatment of it's own players. Who would want to play for this team? Actually, after seeing how Mariner doesn't even use a full bench it shows that he has no fait in the academy as well. So again, what parent in their right mind would put their kid through this organization?
Still pretty much nailed it, Oldtimer.
lol larson says this is winters team mariner is using, he should see this post. 1st team is better and not filled with the many waiver wire rejects.
I'm surprised Larson can find time to type while constantly fondling Paul's balls.
The team was made worse over the transfer window. Who's holding him to account for that? Instead they allow him the excuse that the team is bad.
That is such a flimsy argument on Larson's part it's unbelievable.
Whatever happens, it is Anselmi's call, so we have to crawl inside his head - ewww... his brain is squirmin' like a toad...
Under what circumstances would it benefit Tommy A. to make Grand Marnier walk the plank?
The only scenario that makes any sense to me, would be if Tommy actually lined up a real coach for the team - that doesn't seem likely... although, even a blind squirrel can find nuts, once in a while...
Otherwise, Anselmi will keep him around, along with Beirne + Cochrane, just in case some sacrificial lambs are required at a later date... Perhaps this time around, the coach won't carry the can - perhaps the lack of season ticket sales will be parked at the doorstep of marketing and operations since they don't seem to be very good retaining their customers... How about that Fring's panhandler shtick... or "the worst team in the world video", Socco anyone?
It doesn't really matter if Marnier is fired or not, Season ticket holders won't be fooled either way... ticket renewals won't budge, regardless of the coaching situation. Doubling the beer ration at the town halls will have more effect on season tickets than getting rid of the guy in short pants...
Last edited by tiberius; 09-14-2012 at 05:26 PM.
Blaming the guy with the funny accent, way to easy.
So just going back to these predictions... OT very close overall, but actually too hopeful for the Philly game. TFC got a tie instead of a win.
Remaining games not much easier:
- Playing away vs. LA
- Playing away vs. CD Aquila
- Playing away vs. New York
- Playing at home vs. DC
- Playing at home vs. Montreal
- Playing away vs. Santos Laguna
- Playing away vs. Columbus
I just wanted to post what JDG said after scoring the game-winner for Dallas:
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...winner-vs-caps“I’ll never forget the words of [current TFC manager] Paul Mariner saying that he wants to make sure he’ll send me to a last-place team and let me burn in the heat,” a candid de Guzman said. “It worked out for myself, getting the last laugh, the karma of things. Right now who’s the last place team in the league and who’s battling for the playoffs?”
Two options: 1) Disgruntled player randomly brings up old team to shove it in their faces one last time
2) Our coach is a prick and a half
De Guzman is usually careful with his words and proud of his Toronto roots, I think it's safe to say this is meant 100% for Paul and not TFC in general.
wow, unbelievable. Really want this asshole out of the team.
Fire Mariner and Co.
I hope Toronto media picks up JDG comment.
Yeah right! they'll try to bury it.
So going back to the op's topic do we still think he is going to be fired? I think regadless of any managerial change next year is a write off, too much to fix in one year and next to immposible to get the players we need because of our bad rep.
He should never have been hired in the first place but now we're stuck with him. I agree. We will have to overpay to get quality players due to our reputation.
I was a bit too optimistic.With the Philly tie, the club is actually 2 points worse than I predicted. Otherwise, we are well on track for the worst results ever. We will almost certainly lose the next two games.
Under any intelligent management, PM would be toast. However, Anselmi may very well keep him... at least until season seat sales tank.
It's unbelievable that the knuckle head signed Mariner for a 3 year extension before trying it out first!I was a bit too optimistic.
Under any intelligent management, PM would be toast. However, Anselmi may very well keep him... at least until season seat sales tank.
Now if he fires/moves Mariner ML$E is paying his salary for 3 years. Belogers should be seeing red flags everywhere with all the people/coaches/players we've paid over the years that didn't even work for the club any more.
I wonder if Mo & Preki didn't just stop getting paid by TFC Jan. 1st of this year. That seems to be the contract duration that I remembered. Unless they got a big payout earlier.
Mariner needs a result on Saturday, in LA, to beat the 10 game record that got Winter fired. Mariner's last 9 games: 0-6-3 for 3 of 27 points.
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